Re-reading KS after many other VNs

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acewing905
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Re-reading KS after many other VNs

Post by acewing905 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:09 pm

So, like in the case of several people here, KS was my first visual novel. (I didn't think of Phoenix Wright as a "VN" when I played it, seeing that it had a decent amount of gameplay anyway.) I didn't even know of the existance of visual novels before that. And just like for most other people here, KS was a really great experience for me. It moved me emotionally like nothing ever did before. After it was done, I was hungry for more. So I went on and read more VNs. Among the stuff that I absolutely loved are the MuvLuv series, Majikoi and Symphonic Rain. Read those and several more to completion.

After some time, I thought I'd re-read KS. But sadly, I felt like KS was somehow... lacking... compared to the other VNs I read. Sorry, don't know how to really explain it. I just read through Lilly's route once and stopped. Made me wonder whether most of the high ratings for KS came from those like me who hadn't read other VNs before. (I'm glad it got those ratings, though, cause otherwise I might not have heard of it.) However, that 9/10 I gave it on vndb is going to stay that way, as KS opened me up to a new world of entertainment in the form of VNs. Whatever it might be, it sure is a great entry point into the medium.

Anyone else who felt like this, by any chance? Surely, I can't be the only one?
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yummines
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Re: Re-reading KS after many other VNs

Post by yummines » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:21 pm

the thing about KS is that a lot of people were drawn to the strange concept (dealing with girls that had disabilities) and the fact it was an independent project thats free.

as far as VNs go, its nothing special. however as far as it goes on influence, id say its pretty well known.

i mean of course there's other VNs with quirky plots (theres A Drug That Makes You Dream with its anal crack-addicted fairy, or Monmusu Quest which should be self-explanatory) but KS manages to deal with this issue while still being tasteful.

one thing to keep in mind is that KS was not made by professional writers catered specifically at the VN crowd.

personally, i dont like Visual Novels that much but i really liked Katawa Shoujo. probably be the only visual novel i play, only under certain circumstances will i play a game that has higher priority of story over gameplay
Last edited by yummines on Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Myshina
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Re: Re-reading KS after many other VNs

Post by Myshina » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:22 pm

I played Many, Many VN before KS.

No one compares. Each time I play KS, I have an orgasm in my heart. =D
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Xanatos
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Re: Re-reading KS after many other VNs

Post by Xanatos » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:59 pm

Myshina wrote:I played Many, Many VN before KS.

No one compares. Each time I play KS, I have an orgasm in my heart. =D
...I wonder if Hisao ever thought to think of his heart flutters that way.
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ravenlord
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Re: Re-reading KS after many other VNs

Post by ravenlord » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:20 pm

If you replay a game, it will certainly lack. The suspense is gone, and what is left is the nice story. Part of the thrill of a good VN is the anticipation and worry of what comes next, and if you chose correctly.

So what you are doing is comparing apples and oranges. New VNs versus one you have already played out.

Don't let it bother you, but the first time around for most anything will always be the most fun. No need to feel bad if the thrill drops after that.

As for me, I've played VNs before and since KS, and KS is still tops on my chart.
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ProfAllister
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Re: Re-reading KS after many other VNs

Post by ProfAllister » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:48 pm

You never forget your first. Even if you later find something much better, the first will stick with you. And you'll always have fond memories, even if retrospect colors your current opinion.

That being said, I'm from the "KS wasn't my first" school. I've gone through story VNs; dating sims; the rare VN that gets a US release; porn VNs where I still wonder why I started, why I continued, and why I came back to get 100% completion (I blame it on my being a compulsive gamer); pretty much a bit of everything.

Now, while I haven't covered many of the highly recommended VNs out there, and have a massive backlog of VNs to go through (along with books, movies, video games, internets...), the fact remains: KS is something special to me.

It wasn't my first, and I doubt it will be the best I encounter. But there's something different about KS. On a technical level, it's competent - the art quality varies widely once you're past the core assets; the music is sweet and touching, but lo-fi and somewhat unpolished; the writing runs the gamut, though it does a noble job to keep good pacing and remain internally consistent. But people don't fall in love with KS for its technical merit. Call it heart, soul, je ne sais quoi or what have you, it's not something you find often.

I imagine you've generally kept to top-tier VNs on high recommendation. Or at least, you've managed to avoid most of the garbage. High production values can easily spoil a person, and, as noted, KS really can't compete with the AAA VN studios.

The stories run into a similar trap. As much as we love these five stories, we generally aren't visiting new themes. No one's telling the exact same stories as told in KS< but you can find many close siblings. If you're looking at story beats, it comes down to writing quality. KS has the advantage of being an OELVN, but OEL still can't really compare to top-tier writing and translation.

And to some extent, these things need time. At most, you've had just over six months since you first went through these stories. Give yourself some time, let yourself grow up some more, so you can return to it with new eyes, and see things in a different light. Allow yourself to forget the little details, so you can come back and find yourself pleasantly surprised by all the little things again.

And, in the end, if that doesn't work, you'll still have your first time.
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Tununias
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Re: Re-reading KS after many other VNs

Post by Tununias » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:28 am

There are a lot of great VNs out there. For a free VN, Katawa Shoujo is easily in the top 5. When you add in the professional VNs that cost $45 - $115, the competition can get pretty fierce.
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Pyramid Head
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Re: Re-reading KS after many other VNs

Post by Pyramid Head » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:10 am

I've had completely the opposite experience to what the original poster had. After a few bits of Clannad i crawled back to Katawa Shoujo to mend my mind after so much concentrated stupid. I thought the anime had some questionable moments but some of the branching paths in Clannad were bizarre. My experience with Analogue wasn't quite as bad, or at least it hasn't been so far since that's still a work in progress, but really i never found anything to stand up to Katawa Shoujo. It's kind of like my early experience with 360 games, i started with Fallout 3: Game of the Year Edition and had problems finding something as good and until i picked up The Orange Box didn't find anything better. While i do admit it's going to be hard going through the Shizune arc again and facing that needle-dicked lunatic Jigoro, and Kenji never got any less annoying, the Hanako, Rin, and Lilly arcs are always a welcome breath of fresh air after screaming "SHUT UP FUKO YOU GODDAMNED IDIOT" at the top of my lungs.

Anyway i did get another visual novel like thing on Steam called "Dinner Date" and i have a feeling it may turn out better than Analogue: A Hate Story; but right now i'm thinking my standards were set too high by things like Silent Hill 2 and that i'll never really get into visual novels outside of Katawa Shoujo.
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Pyramid Head
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Re: Re-reading KS after many other VNs

Post by Pyramid Head » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:14 am

Tununias wrote:There are a lot of great VNs out there. For a free VN, Katawa Shoujo is easily in the top 5. When you add in the professional VNs that cost $45 - $115, the competition can get pretty fierce.

Okay i have to reply to this, sorry for the double post. Why in Jah's name would you EVER pay over $100 for a visual novel when not even classic video games hit that price?! I mean c'mon, i've seen actual classic books that were part of an original publication that went for less than some of the visual novels your bringing up. Unless the visual novel magically summons an angelic prostitute to massage your genitals while you read, anything over the asking price for a new video game is simply way too fucking high when you could easily just buy the complete run of a good manga series for that price.
The fear of blood tends to create fear for the flesh.

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Brogurt
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Re: Re-reading KS after many other VNs

Post by Brogurt » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:39 am

Babby's first, etc.

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Nobody in Particular
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Re: Re-reading KS after many other VNs

Post by Nobody in Particular » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:43 am

Of course Katawa Shoujo will look bland when compared to professional VNs because KS didn't have a massive budget like the others have. Still, everything in it was done surprisingly well and looking back it is very surprising to see that this was done by amateurs. In comparison to many VNs that I have played, KS falls short in quality, but I would still consider it one of the better VNs out there and that doesn't make it any less enjoyable.

I've been meaning to reread Katawa Shoujo now that I have delved deeper into the VN genre, I just hope it doesn't shatter my rose tinted glasses.
Tununias wrote:There are a lot of great VNs out there. For a free VN, Katawa Shoujo is easily in the top 5. When you add in the professional VNs that cost $45 - $115, the competition can get pretty fierce.
Aside from Tokyo Alice and Brass Restoration, I have played all of the top rated freeware VNs and I would say that Katawa Shoujo tops them all by a pretty large margin. For nothing Katawa Shoujo is fantastic, and is better than many of the VNs produced by professional organisations in my opinion.
Pyramid Head wrote:I've had completely the opposite experience to what the original poster had. After a few bits of Clannad i crawled back to Katawa Shoujo to mend my mind after so much concentrated stupid. I thought the anime had some questionable moments but some of the branching paths in Clannad were bizarre. My experience with Analogue wasn't quite as bad, or at least it hasn't been so far since that's still a work in progress, but really i never found anything to stand up to Katawa Shoujo.
If you liked KS then I am sure there will be other VNs out there that you will enjoy just as much, perhaps even moreso. While Clannad is one of the more popular ones in the medium there are many people that don't like it, mainly due to it's length. You should probably try some of the more "newbie friendly" (and I use that term loosely) VNs such as True Remembrance or Yume Miru Kusuri. Also you say that you're a fan of Silent Hill 2 (which, on an unrelated note, is my favourite horror game of all time) so Saya no Uta may interest you as it shares many similarities with it and is widely considered the best horror VN out there.

As for Analogue, well that isn't really considered good by anyones standards.
Brogurt wrote:Babby's first, etc.
Babby's first != bad. KS is a great introduction to VNs and there are many "babby's first VNs" that are rated very highly, such as True Remembrance, Planetarian and Saya no Uta.

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Kyah
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Re: Re-reading KS after many other VNs

Post by Kyah » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:07 am

Actually I have played many other VNs before and after Katawa Shoujo, and I think it is one of the best I've ever played!

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Re: Re-reading KS after many other VNs

Post by stanman237 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:09 pm

Pyramid Head wrote:
Tununias wrote:There are a lot of great VNs out there. For a free VN, Katawa Shoujo is easily in the top 5. When you add in the professional VNs that cost $45 - $115, the competition can get pretty fierce.

Okay i have to reply to this, sorry for the double post. Why in Jah's name would you EVER pay over $100 for a visual novel when not even classic video games hit that price?! I mean c'mon, i've seen actual classic books that were part of an original publication that went for less than some of the visual novels your bringing up. Unless the visual novel magically summons an angelic prostitute to massage your genitals while you read, anything over the asking price for a new video game is simply way too fucking high when you could easily just buy the complete run of a good manga series for that price.
The truth is, a hell lot of people in Japan. One of the more popular ones like Clannad and Little Busters are about 100 dollars each and they sell almost 200,000 copies each in Japan. In other words, the call of duty of Japan.

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Xanatos
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Re: Re-reading KS after many other VNs

Post by Xanatos » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:28 pm

Pyramid Head wrote:
Tununias wrote:There are a lot of great VNs out there. For a free VN, Katawa Shoujo is easily in the top 5. When you add in the professional VNs that cost $45 - $115, the competition can get pretty fierce.

Okay i have to reply to this, sorry for the double post. Why in Jah's name would you EVER pay over $100 for a visual novel when not even classic video games hit that price?! I mean c'mon, i've seen actual classic books that were part of an original publication that went for less than some of the visual novels your bringing up. Unless the visual novel magically summons an angelic prostitute to massage your genitals while you read, anything over the asking price for a new video game is simply way too fucking high when you could easily just buy the complete run of a good manga series for that price.
I've seen $500+ shelled out for crappy Atari titles. It's really just easier not to question some things...

As for the topic, I've played a good number of VNs before KS and it's still among the best.
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<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
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Re: Re-reading KS after many other VNs

Post by Camoufrage » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:46 pm

Just like a few people before me said, goin through KS a second time isn't as good. All the twists and turns that pulled at your heart strings are gone. Plus you know everything about the character and what happens. Simply not as interesting.

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