Which character did you get most attached to and why

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Xiious
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Re: Which character did you get most attached to and why

Post by Xiious » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:41 pm

Rydiafan, you seem cold and heartless. You ever meet Icedevimon? You'd get along just fine.

It really isn't your place to say where other people find their inspiration from, if you have never experienced it yourself.

Everyone here understands that it is just a game, but the ideals come from a human mind.

On topic, I feel most attached to Rin. There's just something calming about her I find pleasant to be around, especially those moments where me and her are just sitting around doing absolutely nothing.

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dwarduk
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Re: Which character did you get most attached to and why

Post by dwarduk » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:54 pm

rydiafan wrote:
dwarduk wrote:
rydiafan wrote:I think if you need a ks character to change what your life ... the get serious help ( don't take it as an insult )


We (or at least, I) don't "need" the KS character to change my life, it merely helped me find a different perspective on my own life. Even people addicted to the stereotypical "ban all the violent games ruining the next generation!" type games do not generally lose their grasp on reality, having it in addition to their normal life, although the time split between them can be worrying (I know :lol: )

I guess what I'm saying is that things can be inspiring without infringing on a healthy, sane person's understanding of reality. If you're saying this through first hand experience, I apologise, and I hope your therapy is going well.
Im not in Therapy ( there was a time or two i could of use it in my life of course ) but im pretty healthy mentally and emotionally right now ... but again and again i hear the same thing " i get inspiration from hanako , emi and so on " ... and in my 32 years on earth a fictional character , place , or story never inspired anything good or bad ( i also dont believe that violent game cause ppl to kill ) ... i heard ppl say so and so inspired me to do this but where is the proof ... hanako WON'T inspire anyone to be a better person as much as you say she will ...

Emi doesn't inspire me to exercise , Shizune doesn't Inspire me to be more responsible ,lilly doesn't Inspire me to be more caring ... I am who i am because of my own fuck ups in life and learning from them , my loyal friends , my family and wanting to be a better person , I play KS because its a game plan and simple .... most people are treating KS like a life couch

Now excuse me well i get inspired on how to respect a woman from watching hentai / porn
IIt's a pity you took my comment so literally; I was attempting (clearly failing) to lighten the tone....

Anyway, I completely understand that, and I agree to some extent: your own past is definitely the predominant cause for your current condition. For me, I find I can help see from other points of view if I construct another section of my personality that is the fictional character (or person I'm trying to understand) and try to "see through their eyes", which is why I believe I gained so much from Katawa Shoujo. Yes, it's a game, but its characters are so brilliantly developed that I could do that.

As for KS being a life couch, maybe. Or it could just be that there isn't a great presence of non-Katawa Shoujo material on these here forums, so you don't see the other aspects of these people's lives.
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Re: Which character did you get most attached to and why

Post by rydiafan » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:14 pm

maybe i just don't get it where im a little older or i had to bust my ass to get ppl to like me for me .... or maybe i just have my head up my ass ... but all i see is ppl saying they are inspired by so and so

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Re: Which character did you get most attached to and why

Post by rydiafan » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:40 pm

Xiious wrote:Rydiafan, you seem cold and heartless. You ever meet Icedevimon? You'd get along just fine.

It really isn't your place to say where other people find their inspiration from, if you have never experienced it yourself.

Everyone here understands that it is just a game, but the ideals come from a human mind.

On topic, I feel most attached to Rin. There's just something calming about her I find pleasant to be around, especially those moments where me and her are just sitting around doing absolutely nothing.
I experienced false inspiration from myself ( terra and celes from ff6 ) and other ppl in my life ... and it didn't work ... it was nothing more then lying to myself and using fiction as a crutch to make myself feel better ... no work of fiction inspired or helped me get a girlfriend , finished school , move out on my own , get a job , make friends , exercise , treat ppl with respect

It took years to get over my shyness and fear of social situations and Miyuki Tanaka ( true love 95 ) did not Inspire me to get over it

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dwarduk
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Re: Which character did you get most attached to and why

Post by dwarduk » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:04 pm

rydiafan wrote:maybe i just don't get it where im a little older or i had to bust my ass to get ppl to like me for me .... or maybe i just have my head up my ass ... but all i see is ppl saying they are inspired by so and so
Yes, it's quite possible. I'm not trying to convince you of anything; I'm just trying to explain my position to you. And yes, I had to "bust my ass" to get people to appreciate me for myself, but I couldn't have done that without some understanding of how they think and feel. I'm not using "fiction as a crutch", but as a platform to help me self improve where otherwise the barrier (my apathy) is too great.
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ProfAllister
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Re: Which character did you get most attached to and why

Post by ProfAllister » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:35 pm

rydiafan wrote:
Xiious wrote:Rydiafan, you seem cold and heartless. You ever meet Icedevimon? You'd get along just fine.

It really isn't your place to say where other people find their inspiration from, if you have never experienced it yourself.

Everyone here understands that it is just a game, but the ideals come from a human mind.

On topic, I feel most attached to Rin. There's just something calming about her I find pleasant to be around, especially those moments where me and her are just sitting around doing absolutely nothing.
I experienced false inspiration from myself ( terra and celes from ff6 ) and other ppl in my life ... and it didn't work ... it was nothing more then lying to myself and using fiction as a crutch to make myself feel better ... no work of fiction inspired or helped me get a girlfriend , finished school , move out on my own , get a job , make friends , exercise , treat ppl with respect

It took years to get over my shyness and fear of social situations and Miyuki Tanaka ( true love 95 ) did not Inspire me to get over it
You're right.

There is nothing in KS that will fix the broken. Were I a therapist, I wouldn't think of recommending KS as a cure or as therapy, or as anything else (other than a nice story). KS will not cure you.

But neither will anything else.

When all is said and done, the most transcendent works of art, the most perfect people, everything doing everything right, will not fix someone.

Change can only come from within.

So why do we put so much time, attention, and appreciation into KS? You may as well ask why we honor our parents, our close friends, or even that random stranger who did a good deed at just the right moment.

There are experiences and influences that can help you want to change. Some for the better, and some for the worse. KS has been one of those influences for many of us. After encountering it, we have wanted to change. We don't magically change. Some of us fail. Some of us give up. Give it five years, and many of us may be exactly as we were the day before we ever heard of KS, except we have fond memories of the Visual Novel.

But some of us will stick to the change. For some people, they've already changed in irreversible ways. And you have no right to take that away from people because it hasn't touched you. I understand cynicism. In many ways I am still very cynical. But no one needs someone else to tell them how to experience life.

I understand you want people to get off their asses and do something, rather than whine about their waifu. Many people here want the same thing. But you just said that outside influences can't change you. If you're trying to push people to do something, give a positive push - it's more likely to have an effect. While there is a time and a place for tough love, I'm seeing lots of tough, but little love. If, on the other hand, you're just trolling, let me say, in the most respectful way, GTFO.
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dwarduk
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Re: Which character did you get most attached to and why

Post by dwarduk » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:52 pm

ProfAllister wrote:There are experiences and influences that can help you want to change. Some for the better, and some for the worse. KS has been one of those influences for many of us. After encountering it, we have wanted to change. We don't magically change. Some of us fail. Some of us give up. Give it five years, and many of us may be exactly as we were the day before we ever heard of KS, except we have fond memories of the Visual Novel.

But some of us will stick to the change. For some people, they've already changed in irreversible ways. And you have no right to take that away from people because it hasn't touched you. I understand cynicism. In many ways I am still very cynical. But no one needs someone else to tell them how to experience life.

I understand you want people to get off their asses and do something, rather than whine about their waifu. Many people here want the same thing.
Thank you. I think this says exactly what I was trying to say far more precisely, concisely and elegantly than I was able to manage.
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rydiafan
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Re: Which character did you get most attached to and why

Post by rydiafan » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:06 pm

ProfAllister wrote:
rydiafan wrote:
Xiious wrote:

You're right.

There is nothing in KS that will fix the broken. Were I a therapist, I wouldn't think of recommending KS as a cure or as therapy, or as anything else (other than a nice story). KS will not cure you.

But neither will anything else.

When all is said and done, the most transcendent works of art, the most perfect people, everything doing everything right, will not fix someone.

Change can only come from within.

So why do we put so much time, attention, and appreciation into KS? You may as well ask why we honor our parents, our close friends, or even that random stranger who did a good deed at just the right moment.

There are experiences and influences that can help you want to change. Some for the better, and some for the worse. KS has been one of those influences for many of us. After encountering it, we have wanted to change. We don't magically change. Some of us fail. Some of us give up. Give it five years, and many of us may be exactly as we were the day before we ever heard of KS, except we have fond memories of the Visual Novel.

But some of us will stick to the change. For some people, they've already changed in irreversible ways. And you have no right to take that away from people because it hasn't touched you. I understand cynicism. In many ways I am still very cynical. But no one needs someone else to tell them how to experience life.

I understand you want people to get off their asses and do something, rather than whine about their waifu. Many people here want the same thing. But you just said that outside influences can't change you. If you're trying to push people to do something, give a positive push - it's more likely to have an effect. While there is a time and a place for tough love, I'm seeing lots of tough, but little love. If, on the other hand, you're just trolling, let me say, in the most respectful way, GTFO.
I am not telling ppl how to live ... I am sharing my opinion

Topic after Topic on here I hear " KS Inspired me this way " but Snow_Storm or me say something again popular opinion and we are Trolling ... how many topic can we have about " how has KS changed your life "
I never attacked anyone personally ,the game or what have you ( if i was im sure the mods would have done something to me by now ) ... now if some disagree with my opinion ... then nothing i can do to please you ... im not gonna agree with people to make people happy or just agree with the popular opinion ...

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Re: Which character did you get most attached to and why

Post by ProfAllister » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:34 pm

rydiafan wrote:I am not telling ppl how to live ... I am sharing my opinion

Topic after Topic on here I hear " KS Inspired me this way " but Snow_Storm or me say something again popular opinion and we are Trolling ... how many topic can we have about " how has KS changed your life "
I never attacked anyone personally ,the game or what have you ( if i was im sure the mods would have done something to me by now ) ... now if some disagree with my opinion ... then nothing i can do to please you ... im not gonna agree with people to make people happy or just agree with the popular opinion ...
You may intend to simply share your opinion. However, it comes off as "You're all wrong, KS is crap, and the sky's not blue, it's black, like my soul."

The trolling comment was because, unfortunately, this is the internet, so you can never be sure if someone combatative is being a troll or not. I'm perfectly wiling to have a discussion with someone on a legitimate disagreement, but I'd rather trolls stay out of serious discussions. A little trolling on light matters can be perfectly acceptable and even a little fun.

I can somewhat understand frustration with repetitive themes, but you can't honestly expect people on a forum dedicated to a specific to not talk about one of the most remarkable aspects of the game. You may be around for all of them, but not everyone is. A forum is a transient medium, and people won't simply shut up because everything was already discussed to exhaustion back in February.

That being said, I respect your opinion, and believe it deserves to be heard. I am therefore now asking you to clarify:

You say that KS does not change someone's life or inspire him. You say that fiction can be a form of escapism to only temporarily make you feel better. You say you had to work to be respected (not sure I see where this falls in the argument). You say that KS won't fix you. You make a straw man about porn. You state that any change from fiction is a blurring of the line between fantasy and reality. You say that people are likely to miss the boat because they're going to make the perfect the enemy of the good. Is that a fair recap of your arguments?

I already addressed the distinction between KS being the agent of change and KS giving people a push to change themselves. It seems that most of the people who benefit from KS use it as a sort of mirror, to see themselves more clearly. After looking at themselves in a new light, they decide that they need change. As addressed in Hanako's bad end, knowing you need change isn't enough. Action needs to be taken, and it's usually not easy.

Fiction can be escapism. The key point there is the potential. Anything can be escapism to one living an unexamined life. What matters is the self-awareness. Similarly, some people do get caught up in ideals, and this is dangerous. This is something many of us are well aware of, and we make it a constant refrain of admonition. But we do so gently.

So, where to we disagree?
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Re: Which character did you get most attached to and why

Post by dwarduk » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:44 pm

ProfAllister wrote:You say that KS does not change someone's life or inspire him. You say that fiction can be a form of escapism to only temporarily make you feel better. You say you had to work to be respected (not sure I see where this falls in the argument). You say that KS won't fix you. You make a straw man about porn. You state that any change from fiction is a blurring of the line between fantasy and reality. You say that people are likely to miss the boat because they're going to make the perfect the enemy of the good. Is that a fair recap of your arguments?
I'd just like to amend this: is your view of our use of KS that we are using it to escape to a "reality" in which we are accepted and loved by the girls, and the people we want to be?
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Re: Which character did you get most attached to and why

Post by Xanatos » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:56 pm

So far, I'd have to say Hanako. Despite general misanthropy, I'm very protective of her sort...Emi was more relatable though.
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Re: Which character did you get most attached to and why

Post by rydiafan » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:37 pm

dwarduk wrote:
ProfAllister wrote:You say that KS does not change someone's life or inspire him. You say that fiction can be a form of escapism to only temporarily make you feel better. You say you had to work to be respected (not sure I see where this falls in the argument). You say that KS won't fix you. You make a straw man about porn. You state that any change from fiction is a blurring of the line between fantasy and reality. You say that people are likely to miss the boat because they're going to make the perfect the enemy of the good. Is that a fair recap of your arguments?
I'd just like to amend this: is your view of our use of KS that we are using it to escape to a "reality" in which we are accepted and loved by the girls, and the people we want to be?
I should state before i continue ... i don't claim what i said to be the truth or factual ... it just statements of my personal experiences and opinion

When i had my issues with being anti social , shyness and maybe even depression ( not sure about depression .. never got the help i probably needed at the time ) plus i had a learning problem ( anything vocally was a chore to do and i wasn't as quick mentally )

I needed some help to break the social problems ( didn't have like any friends at the time mostly because i felt sorry for myself ).... so i turned to video games to try to inspire me ( mostly final fantasy characters ) ... and much as i try to be/act like them ... i didn't get anywhere in my personal growth ... this went on for almost 3 years ... i basically lost touch with reality ... then long story short i was put into a place where i had to be more social and blah blah blah

It just my personal experiences but from myself and other i personally know getting inspiration from characters of fiction never worked ... even if i wanted to believe that there might be merit to the idea ... my own logic tells my ( from past experiences ) that its not gonna happen

hope that explains why i feel that way about the topic

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Re: Which character did you get most attached to and why

Post by ravenlord » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:58 pm

rydiafan wrote:It just my personal experiences but from myself and other i personally know getting inspiration from characters of fiction never worked ... even if i wanted to believe that there might be merit to the idea ... my own logic tells my ( from past experiences ) that its not gonna happen

hope that explains why i feel that way about the topic
Well unfortunatley for you, you are in the vast minority here. Everyone else has taken inspiration from KS and its characters, and many are putting it into practice. Sorry it didn't work for you, but there will never be any art form that work for 100% of the people.

Also you (and a few others) do get the troll lable for going on and on about it. You will find that there is an ignore option that people will add you to as you continue to go negative. If you want to hate on KS in like minded company, try 4chan (/a/, not /vg/) -- you will be better received there. Doing it here on and on is simply trolling, no matter how you try to spin it.
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Re: Which character did you get most attached to and why

Post by Pseudogenesis » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:23 pm

What's wrong with getting inspiration from fiction? It's no different than being inspired by a beautiful painting, or a tragic song.



Art is a way of affecting people, of eliciting a very human reaction. Whether the people who are depicted exist or not is entirely immaterial. In the novel Fahrenheit 451, before burning the prized books of an old woman, one of the characters mentions that the people in the books aren't alive. It's clearly a bit of meta-irony on Bradbury's part, but it makes an important point. The people in the books never existed, but the old woman burned with the books rather than give them up. Why? Not because of attachment to people who never existed, of course, but to the ideas and emotions expressed within. It's not that we think the characters are real; such a slip would denote a serious condition. The characters represent emotions, different facets of humanity. Empathy, grief, joy, love. That, more than anything, is what motivates people to improve themselves. Not for an nonexistent person, but in in an attempt to claim the things that the characters represent.

Games like these are far greater than the sum of their parts.
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Re: Which character did you get most attached to and why

Post by ProfAllister » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:48 pm

rydiafan wrote:I should state before i continue ... i don't claim what i said to be the truth or factual ... it just statements of my personal experiences and opinion

When i had my issues with being anti social , shyness and maybe even depression ( not sure about depression .. never got the help i probably needed at the time ) plus i had a learning problem ( anything vocally was a chore to do and i wasn't as quick mentally )

I needed some help to break the social problems ( didn't have like any friends at the time mostly because i felt sorry for myself ).... so i turned to video games to try to inspire me ( mostly final fantasy characters ) ... and much as i try to be/act like them ... i didn't get anywhere in my personal growth ... this went on for almost 3 years ... i basically lost touch with reality ... then long story short i was put into a place where i had to be more social and blah blah blah

It just my personal experiences but from myself and other i personally know getting inspiration from characters of fiction never worked ... even if i wanted to believe that there might be merit to the idea ... my own logic tells my ( from past experiences ) that its not gonna happen

hope that explains why i feel that way about the topic
I think I see the difference here, and it is a good point. And, frankly, it IS something other well-intentioned people say that kind of bothers me.

You shouldn't be attempting to emulate the characters. Even the most perfectly written character is still not a person. When you find a character you like, or a character you dislike, you need to turn it back on yourself. Why do you like the character? Why do you dislike the character? Ghandi was a bit of an asshole (complete tangent, but he was), but he's attributed with a pretty solid quote: "Be the change you wish to see in the world." Or something to that effect. The precise words don't matter.

You can't be anyone else. What works for other people won't necessarily work for you. But that's the whole point of art. Art gives you a sounding board. You engage the art, and the art reflects yourself back at you. Everyone has a unique experience when they encounter art, because the individual is a crucial element of the experience of art. When there is a resonance, it means that you see some sort of truth in the art - that is, you see something about yourself reflected. This is the beginning.

When you find that resonance, you then need to look at yourself and try to figure out what it means. For some people, they get an idea right away, even if they can't logically explain it. Others have to wrestle with themselves to figure out what exactly that resonance means.

When someone says that something inspired them, it means that they had an encounter, the encounter resonated, and they discovered something about themselves, generally something they wanted to change. The stronger the resonance, the more initial commitment someone is likely to have, of course. But again, the change is about yourself, and it needs to come from within.

You should not expect Emi to inspire you to run. You are not Emi.
You should not expect Shizune to inspire you to be diligent and hardworking. You are not Shizune.
You should not expect Lilly to inspire you to be more caring. You are not Lilly.
You should not expect Hanako to inspire you to enjoy reading. You are not Hanako.
You should not expect Rin to inspire you to become an artist. You are not Rin.
You should not expect Misha to inspire you to be unfailingly loyal. You are not Misha.
You should not expect that any of these girls will actually be right for you. You see them at their best and their worst, but you rarely see in between.

However, if you feel something, anything, from experiencing this, you should look to yourself, and find out why you felt what you felt. And you will learn something new about yourself.

And now, out of courtesy to the thread originator and the people actually interested in the subject, I humbly request that we end the threadjack. If this is worth discussing further, it deserves its own thread.
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