Bashing a KS basher.

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SirLadette
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Re: Bashing a KS basher.

Post by SirLadette » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:00 am

This John Walker comes across as a hack, but he's certainly not worth the time or effort required to write an article about it. Most journalists are like John Walker, which is why there's really no point getting angry over it since nothing will change unless every journalist in the world simultaneously develops a work ethic.
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metalangel
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Re: Bashing a KS basher.

Post by metalangel » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:34 am

Don't agree with journalist's opinion ≠ journalist is a hack

You guys worry way too much about what other people think of KS, as if it's a grievous personal insult when they don't like it.

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ShadeHaven
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Re: Bashing a KS basher.

Post by ShadeHaven » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:58 am

metalangel wrote:Don't agree with journalist's opinion ≠ journalist is a hack

You guys worry way too much about what other people think of KS, as if it's a grievous personal insult when they don't like it.
But isn't it fun to fan the flames every once in a while?

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metalangel
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Re: Bashing a KS basher.

Post by metalangel » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:01 am

ShadeHaven wrote: But isn't it fun to fan the flames every once in a while?
No. It makes one look like a pathetic fanboy. There are better things to do with your time.

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Tempester
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Re: Bashing a KS basher.

Post by Tempester » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:18 am

It's not a well-written article at all, but there's nothing that rage-worthy or misleading about it.

Most VNs could afford to trim a lot of their descriptions and conversations to improve their pacing. That criticism alone can help current developers to improve their VNs a lot.
I would like to see you write a story about disabled girls and still keep it interesting.
Never, ever use this kind of argument again.
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SirLadette
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Re: Bashing a KS basher.

Post by SirLadette » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:06 am

metalangel wrote:Don't agree with journalist's opinion ≠ journalist is a hack

You guys worry way too much about what other people think of KS, as if it's a grievous personal insult when they don't like it.
He's a hack because he put zero effort into the article and didn't even do the token bit of research that one would expect you to do in an entry level journalism course at a community college.

I have no problem with people having an opinion that differs from mine, and if he had a few valid points I would acknowledge them. But i'm not going to say, "Well it's his opinion and I can respect that." when his opinion is the equivalent of somebody skimming a War & Peace and deciding that it lacks literary merit because while they skimmed it nothing jumped out at them. He could be writing a review of something I dislike, the new Transformers movies for instance, and i'd still be critical of his opinion if it turned out he spent half the movie flicking popcorn at the guy in front of him instead of watching the movie.

I'm not mad, years of reading crappy articles on ESPN have left me jaded, but it is disappointing to see that this is what passes for journalism and that being critical of this lack of effort leads to people dismissing it with the equivalent of "U Mad?". I'm not signaling you out by the way, this is something i've noticed pretty much everywhere.

edit: I'm in no way defending the OP by the way. The proper response to something like this is choosing to ignore the author in the future and moving on.
Last edited by SirLadette on Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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John W

Re: Bashing a KS basher.

Post by John W » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:06 am

Hey scary people!

Just to clear a couple of things up.

First of all, I wrote an impressions piece of a VN. Certainly I was not familiar with the genre, which is why it wasn't labelled as a review, nor was it a review. It was my impressions of the VN. So, in doing so, it is partly a critique of the game in question, and partly a critique of the entire genre for a newcomer. But here's the important part: had I found it to be a compelling story, excellent reading, then I'd have had few complaints about "reading" and "clicking". But I didn't. I found it, with apologies to developers here, a turgid experience, desperately in need of hefty editing. I enjoyed that the characters were portrayed so sympathetically, but without patronising them. I found myself liking characters. But I was unable to be drawn in by the ludicrously verbose and unfocused nature of the project, and eventually reached a point where I just wasn't interested in the story at all any more. At this point I started skim-reading and clicking just to see where it was going, and that was to showing some tits. All of this is explained in the text.

Obviously people who are dedicated fans of something don't like it when a public critic disagrees. But a reasonable response is not to write a borderline-terrifying diatribe that includes wishes that I would die. That's actually rather threatening, and in no way forms a balanced reaction to my having said I didn't enjoy a thing you liked. That people here loved KS means they get to have a world where there was one more thing they enjoyed than I did - take satisfaction from that.

And secondly, I don't work "for" RPS. I co-created RPS and co-own it. I choose what I write about, and don't get paid based on completing commissions. There was no agenda, no one forcing me to cover it. After a few people had asked us to take a look, I did, and the article was the result. And as much as it may have been negative, it gave it a heck of a lot of publicity. And crucially, we didn't leave it there. We got Leigh Alexander to review it - someone who is very familiar with the genre. That she mostly came to the same conclusions seems noteworthy.

I applaud the team for having worked so hard to create the game. I hope members go on to create more. Ideally with some slightly more strict editing.

You're all terrifying,

John Walker

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Re: Bashing a KS basher.

Post by rydiafan » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:20 am

Oh OP ... you say you are not linking your blog but why didn't you write your issues with John walker on here itself , why was your blog even involved ?? You throw a reviewer under the bus for nothing more then internet fame

To John Walker most KS fans are ok with your opinion ... please do not judge us based on this troll

John W

Re: Bashing a KS basher.

Post by John W » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:22 am

I like it up the butt.

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ShadeHaven
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Re: Bashing a KS basher.

Post by ShadeHaven » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:38 am

That summary does seem like an acceptable opinion, although the full blown review just seemed unnecessarily harsh in areas.

Emulsifier
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Re: Bashing a KS basher.

Post by Emulsifier » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:40 am

I'm just going to say, while I very much disagreed with John Walker's article, I cringed at the various attacks in this one; specifically because of the assurance that the author tried his best to refrain from including any such attacks (I mean, from the :roll:-worthy grammar nazi attacks to the :shock:-worthy death wishes... really?). The points of valid criticism of John Walker's article is marred by the many flaws in argument within this one.
John W wrote:(post)
I think (though I'm not certain, as it's hidden under the flaws) that the main, valid criticism some here have is that you didn't elaborate on "Why" on many of your criticisms (I'd make a joke about this shows how Katawa Shoujo fans love over-elaboration, were I not on the wrong side for that), and instead focused on harshness. Your summary here served to elaborate on "Why", thus redeeming much of the article for me.
(Note: Not an expert in expressing opinions)

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SirLadette
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Re: Bashing a KS basher.

Post by SirLadette » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:01 am

John W wrote:Just to clear a couple of things up.

First of all, I wrote an impressions piece of a VN. Certainly I was not familiar with the genre, which is why it wasn't labelled as a review, nor was it a review. It was my impressions of the VN. So, in doing so, it is partly a critique of the game in question, and partly a critique of the entire genre for a newcomer. But here's the important part: had I found it to be a compelling story, excellent reading, then I'd have had few complaints about "reading" and "clicking". But I didn't. I found it, with apologies to developers here, a turgid experience, desperately in need of hefty editing. I enjoyed that the characters were portrayed so sympathetically, but without patronising them. I found myself liking characters. But I was unable to be drawn in by the ludicrously verbose and unfocused nature of the project, and eventually reached a point where I just wasn't interested in the story at all any more. At this point I started skim-reading and clicking just to see where it was going, and that was to showing some tits. All of this is explained in the text.
I still find the article mediocre, but this paragraph goes a long way towards salvaging it. The lack of explanation (or poor explanation if you prefer) in your article is better addressed in this paragraph, although skimming is still, forgive the expression, a bitch move and it makes it really hard to take a critique seriously. If I were a professor i'd give you a D+, which sadly puts you slightly above the class average. Certainly not offensive enough to merit death wishes.
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Revvy
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Re: Bashing a KS basher.

Post by Revvy » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:07 am

I say, just ignore the guy.
He has his opinions and we have ours, as much as we disagree with him, what will arguing with him accomplish?
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rydiafan
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Re: Bashing a KS basher.

Post by rydiafan » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:16 am

Revvy wrote:I say, just ignore the guy.
He has his opinions and we have ours, as much as we disagree with him, what will arguing with him accomplish?
Finally some common sense on here ... i agree

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metalangel
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Re: Bashing a KS basher.

Post by metalangel » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:05 am

John W wrote:
You're all terrifying
And then the bats are released.

So now it moves on from "dissenting opinions aren't allowed" to "he just didn't get it, man!"

The RPS forum thread about KS turned into a nice argument too.

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