Would this be a better game if there was less of it?

A forum for general discussion of the game: Open to all punters

How many hours did your first play through take?

0 - 10
47
66%
11 - 20
14
20%
21 - 30
6
8%
31 - 40
2
3%
41+
2
3%
 
Total votes: 71

goodman528
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Would this be a better game if there was less of it?

Post by goodman528 » Thu May 03, 2012 9:55 pm

I'm new to the visual novel experience, it is good having matching music and colorful visuals, I feel this media has a lot of potential to tell some very good stories. i like the music and graphics of Katawa shoujo very much, and it is very well presented. I am about 2 hours through the story, and I have just got into ACT II... ... That in itself isn't a problem, after all I would happily take 10 hours to read a 600 page book. The problem is that most of the descriptions and dialogue are entirely pointless and redundant. I really feel there is too much small talk and chatting, and descriptions of everyone's expressions while chatting. Is that really necessary?! I'm now thinking of putting it on auto skip and watch the movie and gallery later to piece together a story, that seems a lot more interesting than watching paint dry (and yes, watching the paint dry is the more most interesting development in the story so far).

At this point I think my character is a complete moron with an IQ lower than Forrest Gump, because not only can't he figure out anything, but even after being told something he still needs a few sentences worth of thinking to tell himself, oh yes, that is how it is. Also all of the girls are becoming annoying because they just talk so much, I feel the urge to slap Misha and Emi, and just tell them if they have nothing worthwhile to say then just shut the **** up.

I feel this would probably have been an amazing experience if they took more time producing it, and put in the effort to edit out about 90% of the content. A good book is not one where you have nothing more to add, but one where you have nothing more to edit out.

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Mirrormn
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Re: Would this be a better game if there was less of it?

Post by Mirrormn » Thu May 03, 2012 10:03 pm

I guess all I can really say is I disagree on all counts. You seem like the kind of person who simply doesn't enjoy reading at all, if these are the kinds of things that are bothering you. Katawa Shoujo is already quite short for a visual novel. If anything, I would have liked it to be longer :P
Katawa Shoujo OST Transcriptions and Arrangements: Consolidated list

Katawa Shoujo Music Index and Table of Contents

Game completion: 100% several times over
Favorite route: Rin
Insights on Rin | Insights on Shizune

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Murkglow
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Re: Would this be a better game if there was less of it?

Post by Murkglow » Thu May 03, 2012 10:12 pm

Oh dang, I clicked the wrong answer. :oops: I thought you were asking how long total I played, not just the first play through. My answer then should have been 0-10 instead of 21-30. I did each route in about 5 hours.
I'd like to make the excuse that the options presented threw me off (41+ hours for the first play through?!?) but to be honest I just made the assumption so that's my fault for not paying closer attention.

As for your comments, I agree with Mirrormn, Katawa Shoujo is not especially long at all as far as Visual Novels go (let alone real books). And I totally disagree with "A good book is not one where you have nothing more to add, but one where you have nothing more to edit out." Details and conversations build a world and help foster a sense of reality or a connection. Many great novels are full of details that might not be strictly required but create a sense of depth and life which are absent from shorter or more utilitarian works.
Last edited by Murkglow on Thu May 03, 2012 10:26 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Favorite Routes:
Rin > Emi > Hanako > Shizune > Lilly

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ivegottogodosomthing
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Re: Would this be a better game if there was less of it?

Post by ivegottogodosomthing » Thu May 03, 2012 10:13 pm

In the early stages of my first run, I might have somewhat agreed with you, but I feel that most of the dialogue in the game is necessary in building character development, and I feel that most conversations do a good job of simulating the high school environment. It might be slow paced at times, but every piece of dialogue builds each character more, and gives insight into their personality, and for that I adore every bit of it.

I think it might also depend on what you're trying to get out of this game. Someone looking for a quick, entertaining read to pass a few hours might appreciate a more succinct version, but if you're someone who has a fairly deep emotional investment into this game as I do, then every scene, every conversation, and every word has merit. This game is, in my opinion, more about the characters that the actual storyline itself. If you were to draw a simple storyboard of each route, you'd think it was the most mundane game in the universe. Only once you really get to know these complex individuals does the story take shape, and the true impact begins.

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acewing905
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Re: Would this be a better game if there was less of it?

Post by acewing905 » Thu May 03, 2012 10:21 pm

Huh? It was already too short. Though I can understand the length. But to want it to be shorter? All in all, I disagree with almost everything in the OP. Who's path have you taken? I don't even need the answer to that to say that visual novels don't seem to be something that suits you, though. And this is my first visual novel too. Second one, if you could count P3P's social link sections as a VN.
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Enemy |
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Re: Would this be a better game if there was less of it?

Post by Enemy | » Thu May 03, 2012 10:23 pm

acewing905 wrote:Huh? It was already too short. Though I can understand the length. But to want it to be shorter? All in all, I disagree with almost everything in the OP. Who's path have you taken? I don't even need the answer to that to say that visual novels don't seem to be something that suits you, though. And this is my first visual novel too. Second one, if you could count P3P's social link sections as a VN.
Give he said about the paint drying thing, I'm gonna guess Rin. Though it's been a while since I've played and I don't know if there is another route that also has you staring at paint.

And also, if you're in Rin's route, oh boy, prepare for tl;drs that you most likely won't like, given you didn't like the usual internal monologue so far.

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Scissors110
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Re: Would this be a better game if there was less of it?

Post by Scissors110 » Thu May 03, 2012 10:37 pm

Personally I've only ran through the game fully once, and it took me just over 5 hours. When sharing the game with my girlfriend, I was reading all of the text out loud to her as she enjoys listening more than reading. I started noticing that, you're right, sometimes it does kind of drag on a bit. However, I really only noticed it in Act 1, and Act 1 arguably seems to be the longest act.

To answer your question, I think the length is perfect. Especially when you compare it to the overall impact of the story and characters.
100% Game Completion!
Character: Lilly>Emi>Hanako>Shizune>Rin
Story: Lilly>Rin>Emi>Hanako>Shizune
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acewing905
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Re: Would this be a better game if there was less of it?

Post by acewing905 » Thu May 03, 2012 10:38 pm

Enemy | wrote: Give he said about the paint drying thing, I'm gonna guess Rin. Though it's been a while since I've played and I don't know if there is another route that also has you staring at paint.

And also, if you're in Rin's route, oh boy, prepare for tl;drs that you most likely won't like, given you didn't like the usual internal monologue so far.
He's so not gonna likehttp://i.imgur.com/xTpa2.png :lol:
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Oddball
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Re: Would this be a better game if there was less of it?

Post by Oddball » Thu May 03, 2012 10:40 pm

If you're already bored by the end of act 1 and hate the characters, you're probably not going to enjoy any other aspects of the game.

It's okay. Not everybody likes everything. The only advice I can give you is to just give it up. Delete the game and walk away. It's not for you.
Not Dead Yet

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nemz
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Re: Would this be a better game if there was less of it?

Post by nemz » Thu May 03, 2012 10:45 pm

goodman528 wrote:I feel this would probably have been an amazing experience if they took more time producing it, and put in the effort to edit out about 90% of the content. A good book is not one where you have nothing more to add, but one where you have nothing more to edit out.
Somebody's been studying modern lit classes a bit too much. hyperedited, precise prose has it's place, no doubt (I'm a Palahniuk fan afterall), but just because a story takes it's time and rambles it's way down the trail rather that basejumping off the cliff doesn't mean it's bad. The writing perfectly matches the soft, laid-back tone of the music and watercolor-ish graphics to create a slow-burn drama. It may just not be your cup of tea.

And to directly answer your question, I definately wish some of the routes were more substantial then they are and would love to have had more routes to complete in total.
Rin > Shizune > Emi > Hanako > Lilly

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Scissors110
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Re: Would this be a better game if there was less of it?

Post by Scissors110 » Thu May 03, 2012 10:57 pm

nemz wrote:
goodman528 wrote:I feel this would probably have been an amazing experience if they took more time producing it, and put in the effort to edit out about 90% of the content. A good book is not one where you have nothing more to add, but one where you have nothing more to edit out.
Somebody's been studying modern lit classes a bit too much. hyperedited, precise prose has it's place, no doubt (I'm a Palahniuk fan afterall), but just because a story takes it's time and rambles it's way down the trail rather that basejumping off the cliff doesn't mean it's bad. The writing perfectly matches the soft, laid-back tone of the music and watercolor-ish graphics to create a slow-burn drama. It may just not be your cup of tea.

And to directly answer your question, I definately wish some of the routes were more substantial then they are and would love to have had more routes to complete in total.
You make a great point about the music. I wanted to mention that in my other post but I knew I forgot something! For me, the music definitely makes the sometimes lengthy reading SO much more enjoyable. They really composed the perfect music for this kind of game, it really helps bring it to life in my opinion.
100% Game Completion!
Character: Lilly>Emi>Hanako>Shizune>Rin
Story: Lilly>Rin>Emi>Hanako>Shizune
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encrypted12345
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Re: Would this be a better game if there was less of it?

Post by encrypted12345 » Thu May 03, 2012 11:30 pm

As far as VNs go, Katawa Shoujo isn't that badly paced. Act I is a little slow, but that's what people call set-up. Even if the slice of life conservations don't seem significant now, they are vital to develop the character. It's hard to call a scene insignificant if you haven't finished the whole thing.

If this was a action, mystery, horror, drama, thriller genre VN or something like that, I would be inclined to agree with you, but as a slice of life romance, it's well paced.

... Of course, this is speaking as someone who has been horrifically traumatized by very badly-paced VNs. :lol:

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ShadeHaven
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Re: Would this be a better game if there was less of it?

Post by ShadeHaven » Thu May 03, 2012 11:37 pm

goodman528 wrote:I feel this would probably have been an amazing experience if they took more time producing it, and put in the effort to edit out about 90% of the content.
I'm sorry, but if the writers would have edited out that much...I probably wouldn't have given this VN the time of day. A game that can be fully completed in around 2 to 3 hours, even 4 hours, does not sound interesting to me at all. Its probably why I never bother with campaign modes in most modern games. Even if you meant that figuratively, in my opinion KS would not have been as amazing as it was. Not to mention, I hate books. They're boring. And to think this VN took a good 40 hours of my life away from me. I regret nothing.

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encrypted12345
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Re: Would this be a better game if there was less of it?

Post by encrypted12345 » Thu May 03, 2012 11:42 pm

Ah yes, the term Iyashikei describes Katawa Shoujo well. I can understand if it's not your cup of tea, but just know that there is a valid reason why there is such a large fanbase before you claim our opinions are wrong.
goodman528 wrote: Also all of the girls are becoming annoying because they just talk so much, I feel the urge to slap Misha and Emi, and just tell them if they have nothing worthwhile to say then just shut the **** up.
>Implying every word girls say in real life is meaningful and worthwhile
:lol:

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ArazelEternal
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Re: Would this be a better game if there was less of it?

Post by ArazelEternal » Fri May 04, 2012 12:16 am

I thought the game was a little short to be honest. I would have liked to see more. I have to disagree on all accounts with the OP. The descriptions of the facial expressions an all are needed, as you cannot hear tone of voice or see their expressions for yourself.

Now if they tried to make it as long as say, the book The Stand by Stephen King, that would be excessive. Thousand plus pages, all small print.

Lilly = Hanako, Emi, Rin, Shizune
I fell in love with Lilly and Hanako

You are not alone, and you are not strange. You are you, and everyone has damage. Be your Emiest.

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