Katawa Shoujo Forums

Forever_ambivalent wrote:

Broomhead wrote:Shushshushuhshush. It all depends on the connotation and area you live in. Where I live, calling someone gay or queer is rude, because it's, well, a very common insult. (I go to a very conservative school.) That said, it's all a bit of a misunderstanding because Zarys doesn't speak english as a first language.

Thus it is controversial and should be avoided as with all controversial things.
Jeez I'm just warning somebody about using certain words that can be offensive to many people and suddenly I get attacked for using a dictionary and not following the laws of a certain community and a dating website.
Some people really hate it when people try to help others.

You weren't trying to help. You were enforcing your personal little controversy phobia. Because anyone who may have been offended would notice that he blatantly stated he holds no ill will or bigotry toward them.

That's the fault here: You used a dictionary, a fixed document that is only updated at intervals. Everyone else uses the ever-evolving language in real-time.


As for "Thus it is controversial and should be avoided as with all controversial things."...That is the philosophy of a very sad and sheltered entity. Enjoy tip-toeing on glass for your entire life.

You know, the idea that women deserve to vote was controversial once. A heliocentric universe. Gays being first-class citizens alongside straights is still controversial in certain circles. The idea of blacks not being slaves was so controversial back in the day, America fought a war over it! Had all of this just been avoided because "OH NO, CONTROVERSY!", no progress would be made. Your philosophy there would have us all mired in outdated bigotry and falsehood. Forever. Food for thought.

And do you realize how many comedians you condemn to homelessness and starvation with that "All controversial things should be avoided!" bit? Basically all of them.

Potato wrote:

Forever_ambivalent wrote:

Broomhead wrote:Shushshushuhshush. It all depends on the connotation and area you live in. Where I live, calling someone gay or queer is rude, because it's, well, a very common insult. (I go to a very conservative school.) That said, it's all a bit of a misunderstanding because Zarys doesn't speak english as a first language.

Thus it is controversial and should be avoided as with all controversial things.
Jeez I'm just warning somebody about using certain words that can be offensive to many people and suddenly I get attacked for using a dictionary and not following the laws of a certain community and a dating website.
Some people really hate it when people try to help others.

You weren't trying to help. You were enforcing your personal little controversy phobia. Because anyone who may have been offended would notice that he blatantly stated he holds no ill will or bigotry toward them.

That's the fault here: You used a dictionary, a fixed document that is only updated at intervals. Everyone else uses the ever-evolving language in real-time.


As for "Thus it is controversial and should be avoided as with all controversial things."...That is the philosophy of a very sad and sheltered entity. Enjoy tip-toeing on glass for your entire life.

You know, the idea that women deserve to vote was controversial once. A heliocentric universe. Gays being first-class citizens alongside straights is still controversial in certain circles. The idea of blacks not being slaves was so controversial back in the day, America fought a war over it! Had all of this just been avoided because "OH NO, CONTROVERSY!", no progress would be made. Your philosophy there would have us all mired in outdated bigotry and falsehood. Forever. Food for thought.

And do you realize how many comedians you condemn to homelessness and starvation with that "All controversial things should be avoided!" bit? Basically all of them.

Good job twisting and putting my words out of context. Also nice personal attacks.
On the first point I was telling him its best not to use such language because it is commonly used as a derogative word ( as I have gotten by people who use it in society). I see that you love to follow only one definition of a word but sadly many exist. Words don't mean what you want them to mean. They mean what society is using them for. Try to accept that. Queer is mostly used as a derogatory word and every now and than it is used to explain a gender-neutral person. That is called controversial.
Now stop getting in such a fit about it and personally attacking me for knowing the multiple definitions of a word that you do not like and knowing what is controversial.

Also that Phrase was quite badly worded. Obviously I didn't mean it in such a literal way but well since you love to avoid the context of posts.
Maybe it would help relieve your misplaced anger if I told you that I was wrong for not putting it into better words so that the meaning would be even more obvious.
Would you prefer " largely controversial words such as queer should be avoided because it is often used offensively"? or do I have to define what I mean by offensive as well?

Forever_ambivalent wrote:Also nice personal attacks.

Oh, fucking blow me. I didn't even attack you, you insecure little shit.

...Well. Now I did. You ought to thank me for keeping you honest. Shall I even bother to point out the hypocrisy laced throughout that post, Mr. Context? Blathering on about only following one definition, yet you're sure stuck on the one derogatory definition that suits you best.



That said...*kicks the thread train back onto its rails and skips away*

I do, however, hold the position that while society uses language in various ways, we are free-willed enough to choose, or to attempt, to persuade others to use language in specific ways. That is what education is about, also poetry, and many other fields of human endeavour. Not all are so well-liked: there's also propaganda and there's also advertising.

To continue to allow (passively, by lack of resistance) the words 'queer' and 'gay' to refer to sexual orientation (perceived or actual) is to diminish those words considerably. Now we have to resort to 'awkward' or 'uncanny' or 'odd' for the former and 'blithe', 'carefree' or 'cheerful' for the latter (amongst others, of course). But this is the way language moves; such is life.

Back to the topic; I assert on the basis of evidence provided so far that most KS fans are primarily biologically male with heteronormative tendencies. How's that?

Oxford Fucking English Dictionary wrote:The word queer was first used to mean ‘homosexual’ in the early 20th century: it was originally, and usually still is, a deliberately offensive and aggressive term when used by heterosexual people. In recent years, however, gay people have taken the word queer and deliberately used it in place of gay or homosexual, in an attempt, by using the word positively, to deprive it of its negative power. This use of queer is now well established and widely used among gay people (especially as an adjective or noun modifier, as in 'queer rights'; 'queer-bashing') and at present exists alongside the other use.

And that blurb is in both their British & World English and US English dictionaries. Really, this happened quite a long time ago, any dictionary that isn't even aware of the reclamation of "queer" is at least, what, 20 years behind the times?

And, cishet male here.

Edit: Even Merriam-Webster...

M-W wrote:Over the past two decades, an important change has occurred in the use of queer in sense 2d. The older, strongly pejorative use has certainly not vanished, but a use by some gay people and some academics as a neutral or even positive term has established itself. This development is most noticeable in the adjective but is reflected in the corresponding noun as well. The newer use is sometimes taken to be offensive, especially by older gay men who fostered the acceptance of gay in these uses and still have a strong preference for it.

M-W acknowledges it too.

Christ on a crutch what happened?!

SpunkySix wrote:Christ on a crutch what happened?!

Cisbisexual male, here.

SpunkySix wrote:Christ on a cripple what happened?!

is an actual version of that expression I have heard, which I mention because KS and cripples and funnies.

Anyways, to answer, Ambivalent doesn't seem to realize that the word 'queer' has been reclaimed, and it got out of hand from there.

If you want a real mess, try Random Discussion, this is nothing.

FelOnyx wrote:

SpunkySix wrote:Christ on a cripple what happened?!

is an actual version of that expression I have heard, which I mention because KS and cripples and funnies.

Anyways, to answer, Ambivalent doesn't seem to realize that the word 'queer' has been reclaimed, and it got out of hand from there.

If you want a real mess, try Random Discussion, this is nothing.

This is a directed discussion, something, but less messy.

Forever_ambivalent wrote: Sorry I have learnt to use reliable sources such as dictionaries rather than dating websites. I still haven't found anything about this reclaimed version in the dictionaries and everyday use. As far as I know queer is a derogatory term and I don't see many reliable sources going against that idea.
And even if there are some people who have made their own definition of queer that does not take away its derogotary connotations, etymology and definitions. As I say go check out google.

So I Googled, and read a dictionary.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... lish/queer

Usage

The word queer was first used to mean ‘homosexual’ in the early 20th century: it was originally, and usually still is, a deliberately offensive and aggressive term when used by heterosexual people. In recent years, however, gay people have taken the word queer and deliberately used it in place of gay or homosexual, in an attempt, by using the word positively, to deprive it of its negative power. This use of queer is now well established and widely used among gay people (especially as an adjective or noun modifier, as in queer rights; queer-bashing) and at present exists alongside the other use.

Merriam-Webster says much the same in their usage section.

I love this place, real life experience has no place here, only whatever is swirling around inside your head. The real actual people I know who are queer or pan or bi or gay don't count, because your dictionary says otherwise. If I go check out Google, and ignore all the dictionary results, it's still all about LGBTQ stuff and resources and information which, if they aren't proof enough, the Wikipedia entry talks all about reclaiming it.

I would say I look forward to you twisting all this around and claiming it's never what you meant and that I'm putting words in your mouth, but along with the whole 'schools for the disabled are pointless and a waste of time' thing, I'm pretty much done discussing anything with you.

metalangel wrote:

Usage

The word queer was first used to mean ‘homosexual’ in the early 20th century: it was originally, and usually still is, a deliberately offensive and aggressive term when used by heterosexual people. In recent years, however, gay people have taken the word queer and deliberately used it in place of gay or homosexual, in an attempt, by using the word positively, to deprive it of its negative power. This use of queer is now well established and widely used among gay people (especially as an adjective or noun modifier, as in queer rights; queer-bashing) and at present exists alongside the other use.

Merriam-Webster says much the same in their usage section.

I love this place, real life experience has no place here, only whatever is swirling around inside your head. The real actual people I know who are queer or pan or bi or gay don't count, because your dictionary says otherwise. If I go check out Google, and ignore all the dictionary results, it's still all about LGBTQ stuff and resources and information which, if they aren't proof enough, the Wikipedia entry talks all about reclaiming it.

I would say I look forward to you twisting all this around and claiming it's never what you meant and that I'm putting words in your mouth, but along with the whole 'schools for the disabled are pointless and a waste of time' thing, I'm pretty much done discussing anything with you.

Meanwhile, researching the entirely 20th-century etymology, I find that 'queer' comes from some ancient hypothetical root that sounds very much like 'twerk'. You live and learn..

SpunkySix wrote:Christ on a crutch what happened?!

Warning and bannings.

Okay, I will avoid this word. the LGBTQ label is very confusing.

Zarys wrote:Okay, I will avoid this word. the LGBTQ label is very confusing.

What's the 'Q' stand for? 'Quadrosexual'?

KeiichiO wrote:

Zarys wrote:Okay, I will avoid this word. the LGBTQ label is very confusing.

What's the 'Q' stand for? 'Quadrosexual'?

The Q isn't for Queer ?