Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

A forum for general discussion of the game: Open to all punters

What team are you ??

Shizune
151
22%
Lilly
443
66%
Other
79
12%
 
Total votes: 673

Synthus
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Synthus » Wed May 16, 2012 2:34 am

Oddball wrote: And who would? Hell, Lilly's the only one that's bilingual. She'd probably have a better chance at surviving in a strange place than most of the cast.
...seriously?

I'm going to request clarification before I commence smashing a hole through my computer desk with my forehead.
Mysterious Stranger wrote: I think it's extremely well-established in her arc that Lilly is completely and utterly comfortable with and adjusted to her disability, more so than any of the other characters in the game.
She's only really capable of independent function in very familiar environments. I don't know about you, but having to accompany my significant other when she decides to go anywhere that isn't home, school or a familiar hangout would wear me down pretty damnably quickly.

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Mysterious Stranger
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Mysterious Stranger » Wed May 16, 2012 11:46 am

Synthus wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:I think it's extremely well-established in her arc that Lilly is completely and utterly comfortable with and adjusted to her disability, more so than any of the other characters in the game.
She's only really capable of independent function in very familiar environments. I don't know about you, but having to accompany my significant other when she decides to go anywhere that isn't home, school or a familiar hangout would wear me down pretty damnably quickly.
I'm not saying that Lilly is independent, I was simply stating that she's as well-adjusted and comfortable with her blindness as a blind person could possibly be. Wahahaha~, here we go again with the semantic nonsense again...

In any case, you're not the one who's in love with her, so saying that you would get tired of supporting her doesn't really mean much.
| Can you see what I see? | To the end of the Waltz... | First stop, Nagoya! | Oh, come, lovely child! | To the World of Dreams | Pray to become starry sky tomorrow... | Please... forget about me... | No music, no future |

Synthus
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Synthus » Wed May 16, 2012 12:49 pm

Meet me halfway, man. Otherwise we're going to end up concussing each other with dictionaries.

Love or otherwise, having someone be completely dependent on you for long durations of time is going to wear a little thin on your nerves. If you've ever had to deal with an infant in the house, you'll know what I'm on about.

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Enemy |
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Enemy | » Wed May 16, 2012 1:39 pm

Synthus wrote:Love or otherwise, having someone be completely dependent on you for long durations of time is going to wear a little thin on your nerves. If you've ever had to deal with an infant in the house, you'll know what I'm on about.
Poor Rin, will never find long lasting love

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Mysterious Stranger
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Mysterious Stranger » Wed May 16, 2012 1:56 pm

Synthus wrote:Meet me halfway, man. Otherwise we're going to end up concussing each other with dictionaries.

Love or otherwise, having someone be completely dependent on you for long durations of time is going to wear a little thin on your nerves. If you've ever had to deal with an infant in the house, you'll know what I'm on about.
So now you're comparing Lilly to an infant, huh?

*readies weapon of choice*
Image
| Can you see what I see? | To the end of the Waltz... | First stop, Nagoya! | Oh, come, lovely child! | To the World of Dreams | Pray to become starry sky tomorrow... | Please... forget about me... | No music, no future |

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ravenlord
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by ravenlord » Wed May 16, 2012 2:13 pm

Blindness doesn't equate to helplessness. Unless there is a Triffid invasion, and then all bets are off. :)

There are a few things that blind people find easier to do if there is a sighted person around to assist, but overall a blind person can do basically anything a sighted person can do. There may be some workarounds (taxi/bus instead of driving, ordering groceries instead of walking the aisles, etc.) but they are in no way need to be dependent upon a sighted person. One of the lessons of KS is that handicaps are only speed bumps, and not roadblocks or dead ends.
Last edited by ravenlord on Wed May 16, 2012 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hanako>Shizune>Lilly>Emi>Rin {100% complete}
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"痘痕も靨" (If there is love, then smallpox scars are as pretty as dimples) ~ Japanese proverb

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Megumeru
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Megumeru » Wed May 16, 2012 2:34 pm

aah...
...
...I haven't even touch this topic and it's brewing up again.

Think I'll just prepare the popcorns...for now
Enemy I wrote:Poor Rin, will never find long lasting love
On the contrary, I think Rin's relationship is actually one of those who could hold a candle for years to come.

Have you ever seen an 'old married couple'? Hell, your grandma and grandpa for example. They tend to bicker a lot, but unlike 'couples' these day they don't break away as easily after an argument. They find a common ground, then get all close again. It all boils down to the basics of understanding one another and looking over one's weaknesses. In Rin's path, it takes a HELL lot of effort from Hisao to understand Rin--and it takes similar effort for her to convey her feelings to Hisao so he could actually understand him (or understand herself--maybe). Even if she's not that physical, you can feel and understand the dynamic of their relationship at the end of her route .They understood each other, and that is one of the strongest base of a long-lasting relationship. This is also the reason why I like Shizune's route.

No, don't get me started.

...
...
...PRETEND I never wrote that.
Last edited by Megumeru on Wed May 16, 2012 2:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Image
They say they hate Shizune? What is this? BLASPHEMY!

SHII-HAEL!
Shizune>Rin>Emi>Hanako>Lilly
"A writer is a light that reveals the world of his story from darkness. Shapes it from nothingness. If the writer stops, the world dies with it." - Alan Wake
Yes, I write stories. Currently working on: The Haunting: A Love Story

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Lolzster
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Lolzster » Wed May 16, 2012 3:14 pm

I think its about time we had some more people join this argument, I'll just say after reading some posts, I agree that being blind means that you won't be the most independent but I would rather look after a blind person like Lilly who is able to adapt and work her way around things than someone who is solely reliant on other people,

Just my personal preference

And on a side note, bilingual is actually very important, being able to speak in more than one language is always a bonus
Synthus wrote:
Oddball wrote: And who would? Hell, Lilly's the only one that's bilingual. She'd probably have a better chance at surviving in a strange place than most of the cast.
...seriously?

I'm going to request clarification before I commence smashing a hole through my computer desk with my forehead.
I think he means that being bilingual helps, as much as I like lilly, I will concede that she wouldn't go to a strange place and survive better than the rest of the cast
ImageImage
Favourite routes: Lilly>Rin>Emi>Hanako>Shizune

Most Feels in route: Lilly>Emi>Hanako>Rin (frustration doesn't count as feels)> Shizune

Yes I love Lilly and hate Shizune... deal with it :)

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Mysterious Stranger
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Mysterious Stranger » Wed May 16, 2012 3:28 pm

Megumeru wrote:In Rin's path, it takes a HELL lot of effort from Hisao to understand Rin--and it takes similar effort for her to convey her feelings to Hisao so he could actually understand him (or understand herself--maybe). Even if she's not that physical, you can feel and understand the dynamic of their relationship at the end of her route .They understood each other, and that is one of the strongest base of a long-lasting relationship. This is also the reason why I like Shizune's route.
...except it's practically outright stated at the end of Rin's arc that Hisao is still fairly far away from truly understanding Rin. I think you might want to reread her good ending again.
Raison d'etre wrote:It might be that nobody can ever express their true feelings so that others understand. [...] In fact, you can't expect people to understand you at all. [...] I want to continue this conversation, grasping at those straws that she finally revealed to exist. [...] Just when I thought I could see behind her veil, she jumps out of my reach again.
Those are just a few quotes I found.
Last edited by Mysterious Stranger on Wed May 16, 2012 3:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
| Can you see what I see? | To the end of the Waltz... | First stop, Nagoya! | Oh, come, lovely child! | To the World of Dreams | Pray to become starry sky tomorrow... | Please... forget about me... | No music, no future |

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Enemy |
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Enemy | » Wed May 16, 2012 3:36 pm

Megumeru wrote:
Enemy I wrote:Poor Rin, will never find long lasting love
On the contrary, I think Rin's relationship is actually one of those who could hold a candle for years to come.

Have you ever seen an 'old married couple'? Hell, your grandma and grandpa for example. They tend to bicker a lot, but unlike 'couples' these day they don't break away as easily after an argument. They find a common ground, then get all close again. It all boils down to the basics of understanding one another and looking over one's weaknesses. In Rin's path, it takes a HELL lot of effort from Hisao to understand Rin--and it takes similar effort for her to convey her feelings to Hisao so he could actually understand him (or understand herself--maybe). Even if she's not that physical, you can feel and understand the dynamic of their relationship at the end of her route .They understood each other, and that is one of the strongest base of a long-lasting relationship. This is also the reason why I like Shizune's route.

No, don't get me started.

...
...
...PRETEND I never wrote that.
You do know I was only sarcastically replying to his comment on how people that are dependent on others will slowly "thin out your nerves", right? :)

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nemz
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by nemz » Wed May 16, 2012 4:06 pm

Mysterious Stranger wrote:...except it's practically outright stated at the end of Rin's arc that Hisao is still fairly far away from truly understanding Rin. I think you might want to reread her good ending again.
Agreed. I actually prefer the brutal neutral ending for Rin because Hisao just doesn't get her. Of course nobody can ever get someone completely, but he's just so damned dense and needy in that arc.

There's something to be said of the attractiveness of a mystery but if it stays unsolved for too long such things become lingering annoyances rather than flirtatious sparks. Given time either Hisao's patience will be worn down by all the things he doesn't understand or he's going to stop trying and all the passion will drain from the relationship.

But yeah, Lilly and Shizune... In retrospect I've been a bit hard on Lilly in various threads around here, though her witholding vital info is still a deal breaker. When Shizune does this it's short-term and motivated either by playfulness or actually trying to teach a lesson. Her little deceptions actually bring you closer together and make you both better people while Lilly's create unnecessary drama and show a lack of respect, only serving to drive you apart.
Rin > Shizune > Emi > Hanako > Lilly

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Megumeru
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Megumeru » Wed May 16, 2012 4:24 pm

Mysterious Stranger wrote: ...except it's practically outright stated at the end of Rin's arc that Hisao is still fairly far away from truly understanding Rin. I think you might want to reread her good ending again.
I think I missed that part. Yeah, might have to dig it again.

Still, you get my point. They made a lot of progress from the starting point and handled their problems/issues pretty well (considering Hisao's actions during her arc). He may still be a long ways off from understanding Rin, but he manage to get the "basics" done at least.
Enemy | wrote:You do know I was only sarcastically replying to his comment on how people that are dependent on others will slowly "thin out your nerves", right? :)
Oh, oh...
...
...
...
...pretend I didn't reply to that then.


with that said, someone--anyone--give me a line Lilly would use to comfort someone. Reference-material, doesn't have to be from the VN.
Image
They say they hate Shizune? What is this? BLASPHEMY!

SHII-HAEL!
Shizune>Rin>Emi>Hanako>Lilly
"A writer is a light that reveals the world of his story from darkness. Shapes it from nothingness. If the writer stops, the world dies with it." - Alan Wake
Yes, I write stories. Currently working on: The Haunting: A Love Story

Synthus
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Synthus » Wed May 16, 2012 5:54 pm

Mysterious Stranger wrote: So now you're comparing Lilly to an infant, huh?
Yes, I am.

Image
Enemy | wrote:
Synthus wrote:Love or otherwise, having someone be completely dependent on you for long durations of time is going to wear a little thin on your nerves. If you've ever had to deal with an infant in the house, you'll know what I'm on about.
Poor Rin, will never find long lasting love
Sarcasm aside, Rin's capable of a surprising degree of fine manipulation with her feet. I don't think independence is as nearly much of an issue for her, though I wouldn't be surprised if Hisao had to keep collecting her from the police station because she keeps forgetting her own address.
Lolzster wrote:
I think he means that being bilingual helps, as much as I like lilly, I will concede that she wouldn't go to a strange place and survive better than the rest of the cast
Being bilingual has fuck all to do with independence and ability to cope in an unfamiliar environment. You get what I'm saying though.

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Enemy |
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Enemy | » Wed May 16, 2012 6:31 pm

And changing her
And cleaning her
And opening doors for her

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ravenlord
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by ravenlord » Wed May 16, 2012 8:10 pm

Enemy | wrote:And changing her
And cleaning her
And opening doors for her
Wow, some of you guys really really underestimate the disabled. Do a youtube search of stuff like "armless" and find people who drive cars, play guitar and volleyball, practice dentistry, gunslingers, drummers, etc. No one has to change or clean Rin, or open doors for her.
Hanako>Shizune>Lilly>Emi>Rin {100% complete}
Image
"痘痕も靨" (If there is love, then smallpox scars are as pretty as dimples) ~ Japanese proverb

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