Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

A forum for general discussion of the game: Open to all punters

What team are you ??

Shizune
151
22%
Lilly
443
66%
Other
79
12%
 
Total votes: 673

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Mirrormn
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Mirrormn » Sun May 13, 2012 8:20 am

acewing905 wrote:Hell, she isn't even attracted to men. It's like she wanted to feel loved somehow.
There is no evidence for this. Bisexuality is a real thing, y'know. And since Misha went to Hisao specifically for sex, I'd say there's a very good chance she is attracted to males in addition to females.
acewing905 wrote:And Shizune wasn't clueless. Misha told her.
Absolutely no evidence for this either.
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rydiafan
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by rydiafan » Sun May 13, 2012 8:29 am

yeah I'm sure Misha didn't tell Shizune ( gonna have to play her route again ... playthrough # 7 or 8 i think ... i love Shizune route lol )

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acewing905
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by acewing905 » Sun May 13, 2012 8:31 am

Mirrormn wrote:
acewing905 wrote:Hell, she isn't even attracted to men. It's like she wanted to feel loved somehow.
There is no evidence for this. Bisexuality is a real thing, y'know. And since Misha went to Hisao specifically for sex, I'd say there's a very good chance she is attracted to males in addition to females.
Doesn't she say something to the effect of "it's weird" when the deed is done? Of course, that could mean many things. (I'm not certain of this. I didn't cheat on Shizune on my playthrough.)
Mirrormn wrote:
acewing905 wrote:And Shizune wasn't clueless. Misha told her.
Absolutely no evidence for this either.
Oh, there is. At least if Misha is telling Hisao the truth. There is no reason to think that Misha would lie to Hisao when she says that she confessed to Shizune. Here: Spoiler pichttp://i.imgur.com/fnO6g.jpg
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Mirrormn
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Mirrormn » Sun May 13, 2012 9:13 am

acewing905 wrote:Doesn't she say something to the effect of "it's weird" when the deed is done? Of course, that could mean many things. (I'm not certain of this. I didn't cheat on Shizune on my playthrough.)
She says that it's her first time having sex with a male. Which is actually a pretty telling remark, because it implies that she has had sex with a female before, and since Shizune refused her confession, it was likely someone she knew before coming to Yamaku. And we know she didn't want to come to Yamaku initially and was very depressed when she first arrived. But that speculation is getting a bit off topic.

Anyway, just because she hasn't had sex with a male before doesn't mean she's not attracted to them.
acewing905 wrote:
Mirrormn wrote:Absolutely no evidence for this either.
Oh, there is. At least if Misha is telling Hisao the truth. There is no reason to think that Misha would lie to Hisao when she says that she confessed to Shizune. Here: Spoiler pichttp://i.imgur.com/fnO6g.jpg
Oh, I thought you meant Misha told Shizune about having sex with Hisao.
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Megumeru
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Megumeru » Sun May 13, 2012 10:58 am

rydiafan wrote:yeah I'm sure Misha didn't tell Shizune ( gonna have to play her route again ... playthrough # 7 or 8 i think ... i love Shizune route lol )
About her confession? She did.

But the point on whether Shizune figured out that Misha had sex with Hisao is pure speculation. If I remember correctly, she hinted that she knew about it (or rubbed on the surface) on Act IV, 'Terminal' when Hisao and Shizune are discussing about them falling apart. She mentioned about being able to read lips and guess what Hisao and Misha were talking about before. Again, Misha didn't tell Shizune directly--nor does Hisao (that's like telling your best friend 'hey, I had sex with your sister!' or something close to it), but there is the possibility that she knew.
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SHII-HAEL!
Shizune>Rin>Emi>Hanako>Lilly
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Mysterious Stranger
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Mysterious Stranger » Sun May 13, 2012 12:41 pm

Megumeru wrote:But the point on whether Shizune figured out that Misha had sex with Hisao is pure speculation. If I remember correctly, she hinted that she knew about it (or rubbed on the surface) on Act IV, 'Terminal' when Hisao and Shizune are discussing about them falling apart. She mentioned about being able to read lips and guess what Hisao and Misha were talking about before. Again, Misha didn't tell Shizune directly--nor does Hisao (that's like telling your best friend 'hey, I had sex with your sister!' or something close to it), but there is the possibility that she knew.
I'm pretty sure it was Hicchan who speculated over whether she could read lips. I don't think it's ever made crystal clear that she can.
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Megumeru
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Megumeru » Sun May 13, 2012 1:59 pm

Mysterious Stranger wrote: I'm pretty sure it was Hicchan who speculated over whether she could read lips. I don't think it's ever made crystal clear that she can.
I'm pretty sure Shizune said it herself, but it could be that Hicchan did speculate it.

I'll reread her route again; both sides could be right on this one. I can't remember it clearly after dosing myself in Emi's route for the last few weeks--I need to get her character right :shock:
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They say they hate Shizune? What is this? BLASPHEMY!

SHII-HAEL!
Shizune>Rin>Emi>Hanako>Lilly
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Mirrormn
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Mirrormn » Sun May 13, 2012 6:36 pm

Megumeru wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote: I'm pretty sure it was Hicchan who speculated over whether she could read lips. I don't think it's ever made crystal clear that she can.
I'm pretty sure Shizune said it herself, but it could be that Hicchan did speculate it.
Not only did Shizune never explicitly claim to be able to read lips or show any ability to do so, there is also no time at which Hisao and Misha were explicitly discussing their night together that Shizune could have even eavesdropped on. They hint about it a little bit while on the rooftop in Look Aside, but not in any detail that would clue Shizune in on the whole picture, just vague things like "I made a big mistake". And, the only time Hisao even speculates about lip-reading is while he's thinking about an incident that never occurs in the story (presumably one that was edited out); the incident he recalls does not match Look Aside's rooftop scene, and there are no other scenes in the story that match any better. Finally, Shizune does talk to Hisao about overhearing some of that rooftop conversation later on (during Grand Strategy), and while doing so, gives no indication that she is wise to Hisao's infidelity. In fact, the very same text occurs in that scene whether you choose "Comfort" or "Refuse".

I hate that part of Shizune's route. It's very poorly written and confusing.
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ravenlord
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by ravenlord » Sun May 13, 2012 8:00 pm

Mirrormn wrote:I hate that part of Shizune's route. It's very poorly written and confusing.
I actually thought that was done purposely by Shizune as a gambit to try to confuse Hisao and make him divulge more information (especially in the "comfort" arc). She says that she talked to Misha, at which point Hisao starts to worry. When he asks "about what", she says "a lot" and then he really starts to panic. I think Shizune knew that the rooftop conversation was VERY serious, and she has suspicions, so she wanted to divide and conquer by interrogating them separately and imply that she knows more than she really does. Without Hasio being able to confirm what Misha has or has not said, he was in a really vulnerable position, and Shizune does call him out on the fact that he is withholding information (in the comfort arc).

I doubt that she can read lips, but I would not put it past her to bluff it from time to time.
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by mysterycycle » Mon May 14, 2012 7:16 pm

Team Lilly here. I like Shizune, and the arguments made in her favor are certainly legitimate, but in the long run, being around Shizune all the time would drive me nuts. I am fonder of Lilly and her gentle, motherly tendencies.
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Synthus » Tue May 15, 2012 9:58 am

Personally, it's precisely those 'motherly' tendencies I can't stand. I already have one hell of a smothering Asian mother, I don't need another one. Also, her excessive mothering of Hanako and Hisao come across as an escapist coping mechanism for dealing with her own disabilities to me.

And shit, I think I'd be fairly annoyed at having to guide Lilly around all the time whenever we visit someplace new. Lilly's just not sufficiently independent enough for me to view her as an equal and a partner, and that's poison for the integrity of a committed long-term relationship.

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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Oddball » Tue May 15, 2012 10:07 am

Synthus wrote:Her excessive mothering of Hanako and Hisao come across as an escapist coping mechanism for dealing with her own disabilities to me.
Lilly's just not sufficiently independent enough for me to view her as an equal and a partner
Now you're just making stuff up.
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Megumeru
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Megumeru » Tue May 15, 2012 10:21 am

...we seriously doing this again? Please no. We've been over this more than three times (with similar outcomes)
Synthus wrote:Also, her excessive mothering of Hanako and Hisao come across as an escapist coping mechanism for dealing with her own disabilities to me
Masks. It has been mentioned before: all characters have masks and it comes in many forms. So personally, I think so too--it's one of the reason why I see Lilly's "perfect" character and appeal as 'fake'. When Kenji accidentally tripped her in ActIV, she unleashed a--rare--outburst that even Hisao himself is surprised of. Still, it's just my observation.
Oddball wrote:Now you're just making stuff up.
I don't necessarily think so. He has a point--Lilly wouldn't survive a day if left in a foreign city (say, St. Petersburg or Seoul) without a guide. There are other factors that I could point out, but I prefer avoiding another lengthy discussion so I'll make it simple.

Lilly's relationship is akin to first-loves. Simple, sweet, loving, daring, and naughty, but wouldn't hold a candle in the long run.
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They say they hate Shizune? What is this? BLASPHEMY!

SHII-HAEL!
Shizune>Rin>Emi>Hanako>Lilly
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Oddball
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Oddball » Tue May 15, 2012 10:41 am

Megumeru wrote:...we seriously doing this again? Please no. We've been over this more than three times (with similar outcomes)

*snip*

Masks. It has been mentioned before: all characters have masks and it comes in many forms. So personally, I think so too--it's one of the reason why I see Lilly's "perfect" character and appeal as 'fake'. When Kenji accidentally tripped her in ActIV, she unleashed a--rare--outburst that even Hisao himself is surprised of. Still, it's just my observation.
Yes. You've said this before. For some reason you think Lilly being under stress and loosing her temper once means that her whole personality is a fake. It didn't make sense when you said it then either.
I don't necessarily think so. He has a point--Lilly wouldn't survive a day if left in a foreign city (say, St. Petersburg or Seoul) without a guide. There are other factors that I could point out, but I prefer avoiding another lengthy discussion so I'll make it simple.
And who would? Hell, Lilly's the only one that's bilingual. She'd probably have a better chance at surviving in a strange place than most of the cast.
Lilly's relationship is akin to first-loves. Simple, sweet, loving, daring, and naughty, but wouldn't hold a candle in the long run.
I just cannot wrap my head around your mindset. How can anyone see that turning your back on your family to be with the one you love means less to a relationship that going "well, I hope I see you again in a few years,"?

But again, I doubt you'd have anything to say that's not a horrible double standard.

Anyway, I'm done with this topic. Period. Finished. End of story. That's it. If it makes you happy seeing this is a victory for your side, then by all means. I hope you enjoy yourself with that.
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Mysterious Stranger
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Re: Team Shizune vs Team Lilly

Post by Mysterious Stranger » Tue May 15, 2012 10:44 am

Synthus wrote:Personally, it's precisely those 'motherly' tendencies I can't stand. I already have one hell of a smothering Asian mother, I don't need another one. Also, her excessive mothering of Hanako and Hisao come across as an escapist coping mechanism for dealing with her own disabilities to me.

And shit, I think I'd be fairly annoyed at having to guide Lilly around all the time whenever we visit someplace new. Lilly's just not sufficiently independent enough for me to view her as an equal and a partner, and that's poison for the integrity of a committed long-term relationship.
I think it's extremely well-established in her arc that Lilly is completely and utterly comfortable with and adjusted to her disability, more so than any of the other characters in the game.
Oddball wrote:
I don't necessarily think so. He has a point--Lilly wouldn't survive a day if left in a foreign city (say, St. Petersburg or Seoul) without a guide. There are other factors that I could point out, but I prefer avoiding another lengthy discussion so I'll make it simple.
And who would? Hell, Lilly's the only one that's bilingual. She'd probably have a better chance at surviving in a strange place than most of the cast.
Alright, this might be going a bit too far. Yes, her bilingualism would certainly help, but I don't think that's a very salient argument. Though it's true that anyone would have to adjust to a new environment regardless.
| Can you see what I see? | To the end of the Waltz... | First stop, Nagoya! | Oh, come, lovely child! | To the World of Dreams | Pray to become starry sky tomorrow... | Please... forget about me... | No music, no future |

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