when will I have the chance to finish the next chapter now
oh well, I don't mind doing this any who
Now first off, on the topic of sex.
Now let me clear this up, I don't care if you lost your V-card or not or what religion you're in or whether you uphold the tradition of keeping that V-card for your future spouse or what; I don't give a damn, it's your life and your way to use it--in short, I am not pushing 'ideals' upon others.
But let me rephrase what I have been saying: sex is a form of commitment. You can call it whatever you want, but you can never get closer to anyone else other than sex.
Now let me ask for those who have lost their V-cards.
if you have lost yours, and you're going out with say...your fifth girlfriend and she still holds her V-card. Have you ever compared her with another girl who--explicitly--did it 'better'? If so, then I'll say 'so much for a commitment' because now you're thinking of someone else rather than your current girlfriend.
But that is basically from my perspective and judgment. Why do I say it is a commitment? Because when a couple lost their V-card for the very first time together, they are basically a 'noob' on this kind of experience and only have one another to share it. In time, they both can get better at it and will only have each other in their heads.
(of course, in today's society this 'ideal' is pretty much lost in history and as often as it is sex is seen as a 'stress relief and procreation' and whatnot. I may not agree with it, but oh well that's life)
oddball wrote:And that doesn't apply to Lilly because of what reasons? Because she loved him but it was too early for her to be in love? Because she loved him but was still unsure what to do with her family? At this point, we aren't even sure if she had got the summons yet and if she had, we certainly don't know if she had made up her mind.
Nothing's wrong with that. What's wrong is when you force your morals onto others.
And really, that was hardly Lilly and Hisao's first date. They'd already been spending a lot of time together and had shown feelings for each other. It just wasn't until the field scene that they admitted they loved each other. Or are you going to argue now that she invited him to her house and admitted she loved him out of nowhere as well?
Now imagine it like this.
You went on a first date with your high school friend--let's say she just confessed to you a day before. You guys went on a romantic date, had a nice boat ride, then you take her home--oh wait, she ask you to stay at her house before. Woop, here she comes in a skimpy lingerie and simply pluck your v-card right then and there.
What's the first thing you have in mind? She's romantic? No, a pervert.
But some people think otherwise, gets along with it, and in the end regretted it--some confessions in this board refers to it and I've been hearing enough BS from my friends who lost theirs, was proud of it, then regretted it after they start remembering how their first girl was better than their second before breaking up.
and yes, they have been spending a lot of time together. But the moment you know the other party shares similar feelings with you, do you just suddenly attack him/her and throw away something that you can only give away once in a lifetime? As natural as it is, the sex between Lilly and Hisao boils down to lust sprinkled with powdery 'love'--or as what we know as a 'healthy adolescent sex drive'.
I don't care if people are doing it pre-marital and what not, but you get my point with this 'sex talk' and what it is.
oddball wrote:You say this like it's some admirable thing, where Shizune was trust into a position that she shouldn't have been able to handle and suffered because of it. Shizune was directly responsible for all the other members of the student council walking out on her. And as far as handling all the work, she openly admits she fakes quite a bit of the paperwork.
Oh, really? What Act is it? Act II? Act III? Act IV?
Or is it the time where she joked about the 'merit badge' and--for some reason--the word reached the hikikomori Kenji? KENJI of all people.
I have just went through the entire Shizune route again to disprove this, but instead I found something else. Want to know? It's about Lilly being irresponsible and missing deadline for the festival's budget report--remember that argument?
Read: Shizune, Act II, 'Spring into Action'
I knew I've read it somewhere. There's a solid, concrete proof right there that she missed the deadline and requested an extension--TWICE.
And you think Lilly who has problems with aligning priorities can do better than her? What a joke. She'll end up solving her own problems and leaving others in devastation. Admirable indeed...
oddball wrote:So Lilly's explination of "I love yu,you almost died and I can't stand it I never want you to leave me!" was wrong but Shizune's "I can't even understand you, let's have sex." is fine. Quite the double standard there.
You're comparing a 'good ending' with a 'mid-point'. It's like comparing apple and oranges; easily distinguishable.
Now let's compare the 'normal' ending with the 'bad' ending, shall we?
In the normal ending, Lilly leaves for Scotland and Hisao never realized her conflict. They broke up, continued on with their lives like normal as they watch the car leaves to the airport. Sure Lilly said 'I'm sorry Hisao', but that's about it--your standard 'goodbye' routine when you broke up with someone. Done.
In the bad ending, Shizune, Hisao, and Misha were all left devastated. Destroyed. Demolished. Crushed. Scattered; just like how the Soviet Union ended in 1991. Hisao look away in regret, Shizune shut herself completely, and Misha was left devastated--that's a chain reaction of a series of unfortunate events. But we're getting a little off-topic on this one.
Unless of course, you mean the 'middle' scene after Hisao confessed to Lilly and the night after compared with Shizune's first night with Hisao.
If it is, then I'll repeat what I said earlier before--or maybe because it has been misinterpreted again.
1. Lilly's first H-scene happened after their confession; as natural as it is, it happened too quickly--even Emi's scene occurred a few weeks after their confession. Lilly's? Right off the bat--and put it in this image that this is after you confessed to someone else and decided to have sex with that person that very night.
2. Shizune's H-scene has its build up, the time, and the flow. Your 'interpretation' is vaguely familiar to you turning a 'blind eye' (heh, 'blind eye') to what I had been explaining in many, many posts--"if it feels good, live and let live" is what I'm getting. Not quite.
It isn't because she doesn't understand Hisao and decided to throw away her v-card--like your interpretation. Throughout her route, they shared their regular tease and banter--these are common, natural interactions between them and how they show their affection with one another or, as I like to say, the 'time' to understand one another. Second, the build-up. I've explained this before up ahead, but if you're a male and you accidentally pushed down a girl and pinned her to the floor you have exactly two choices: go along with it, or apologize.
In a normal conversation where both parties can speak/hear, you'll apologize. But considering the mentality of most male's brain structure (including mine), your body would want to go along with it--especially if you're equipped with the all-famous 'healthy adolescent sex drive'. This is why I tell you to re-read her Act III, 'Closer' to get a better grip of the situation as my own explanation would probably be confusing or fall into deaf-ears (heh, deaf ears). The situation was awkward after all that and Hisao--who suppressed his 'healthy adolescent sex drive'--apologized (forgetting how to sign) and returned to his room to let it pass. Shizune knows and understands this (possibly misinterpret Hisao's action as well) and also, following her mentality of trying to make people happy, answered Hisao and told him that he doesn't have to feel awkward or distant around her; this also answers Hisao's 'healthy adolescent sex drive' and the means for them to get closer.This is the flow.
oddball wrote:Hold up. A minute ago she was a virgin that had never had a boyfriend before and now you're talking about how she's just going to go find somebody and sleep with them right off the bat. It's like you're trying to pick two different views of the character and mash them together to justify your hatred.
Hold up a minute, who said she's going to find a boyfriend immediately after she left? It's just your own imagination and interpretation on my justification.
Life goes on, the relationship between Hisao and Lilly is over, they're all going their separate paths. Of course it's logical to look for someone else and--considering her 'healthy adolescent sex drive' I will not be too surprised if she repeats the step she did with Hisao like 'ABC'.
How old are they? 18-19? Life is still young and long. Disappointed or not is that other individual due to her being 'second hand' is up to whoever has her--if it's me, then I'll be damn disappointed.
I don't hate Lilly; 'hate' is a very-very strong word, and words are mightier than the pen. These are my defense against your attacks towards Shizune, to which I defended using live ammunition.
oddball wrote:So the romantic assertive ones are the people hat DON'T get to make any choices in their realtionship and DON'T have any real romantic scenes in their story and the people that enjoy actually being able to connect with somebody emotionally without having to do a thesis paper on their every conversation are the ones in the wrong. You have a very interesting world view.
are you attacking my arguments, or are you attacking me? Because if it is one of your 'jokes' I find it hardly funny--at all. Well, if my last statement actually offended you then I shall apologize for that. Emotions do tend to get the better of judgment, after all (this is also true with Lilly)
No choices? Does Hisao ever strictly been given a direct order by Shizune to do 'xx' or 'yy' without regards? The door that leads to him leaving the student council is right there all along, did he took it? Nope. Who said you're in the wrong? You're the one who interpret it that way. And thesis? I answer as natural as I would in a debate, so if this is how it goes it...goes.
What makes us romantic and assertive? We have a choice--we can let her/our partner do all the work, warm up to us, and make us 'feel good' with all the 'feels' of having a girlfriend, or both of us can try to talk and understand one another that made both me and my partner 'feel good' with one another. There's one side where the partner made the move and the other respond, and there's another side where both parties made the move and responded--the former being Lilly's, the latter being Shizune's.
There's plenty of romantic scenes; love and romance isn't bred through 'words of love' and what-not--everybody can say that, even trained bears and dolphins can do that. Actions are what show that you love someone, but it doesn't have to be physical; commitment and trust can be considered part of actions, and that meant a lot more than saying 'I love you' to your partner/lover/girlfriend (so if you have a partner, give her a hug, take her for a walk, ask her out, correct her if she's wrong, and stop staring at some other girl's boobies when they pass by).
So I don't understand quite exactly what is 'wrong' with you liking Lilly. Not everybody like Shizune, and I can understand that--but those who did took the initiative to understand her as a whole while reading through her route. That is what makes us romantic and assertive. Probably how I phrase the punch seems a little offensive; if so, I apologize for that.
Oddball wrote:That sounds about like Shizune alright. Everything has to be a competition that you can win. No such thing as compromise or understanding a different point of view.
It's never a competition. To me, it's war and both sides were given similar amount of resources to push in and win--it just depends on how it is utilized. Guest Poster and Mirrormn pulled a lot of good points, and that's why I really-really enjoy discussing/debating/etc. here a few posts back.
Hell, life is a war basically. Want to get into a good university? You fight it with someone else you don't know to get that empty slot. Want a good job? Do a good interview and impress the employer enough so they'll hire you instead of that other guy who came into the room five minutes ago. Want that girl for your girlfriend? You're trying to understand the 'enemy', but to do so you need to understand yourself. Sun Tzu's "Art of War" sums up life nicely IMO. But that's just me.
I know when to stop and cease, and as far as it is concerned this new debate is building up to a massive atomic race that will explode any minute--a 'Cold War' going 'hot'. I don't mind stopping this discussion anytime, but I'll tell you that I stepped up and pull up another 'thesis' like this to defend my side from yours.
That's why I said "Welp, here we go again" one-two pages back and "are we REALLY doing this again" and thus, this is my response and how it came to be for the side. You can keep pushing this as much as you want, and I'll stand my ground as hard as I can.
But again, I'll propose this: shall we end this here?