Remove Adult Content?

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ziamatt
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Re: Remove Adult Content?

Post by ziamatt » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:04 am

Alexbond45 wrote:Shouldn't It be obvious? The Political Term of "Adult Content" is anything that is shown that is something that has sex, nudity, and Ridiculous Violence that should not be viewed by children.
Source": http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/adult_content.
Did you forget to post a second link or something? Because that wiktionary link only mentions pornography and violence, neither of which describes Katawa Shoujo. It says nothing about nudity or even sex.

rydiafan
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Re: Remove Adult Content?

Post by rydiafan » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:22 am

Well i think in the end there is no pleasing the OP ... so in the end you really have 2 chioces ... 1) you play it as is or 2) you don't play it ... it's a free game the took over 5 years to complete and the only thing the devs of the game get is the praise from the ppl who play the game ... if they take the time to please you then i have a request for more dlc for shizune arc , oh and a misha arc well they are at ... but of course there are those ppl who want more dlc for the other main girls as well ... plus yuuko and miki arcs as well ... plus maybe voice overs for the blind ppl ... and on and on ... so devs mind if you take another 5 years to please us we will be so happy ....

it's not gonna happen just deal with the drawn boobies

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Paddy
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Re: Remove Adult Content?

Post by Paddy » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:40 pm

Guest Poster wrote:Porn is an extremely subjective term. Some people believe that everything that depicts nudity is porn (which would include biology books and art galleries), others believe everything that depicts sexual intercourse is porn (including stories where it makes sense) and others believe something is only porn if sexual tintillation is the core purpose of the work.

The term according to wikipedia is: "Pornography or porn is the explicit portrayal of sexual subject matter for the purposes of sexual arousal and erotic satisfaction."

If a sex scene is enough to make the entire work pornographic, then The Matrix: Reloaded is a porn movie too. Obviously, most people don't see it that way. Seeing the mature handling of sexuality in KS, I can't really classify it as porn myself.
Get an account already!!!

By "porn", I think everyone can agree that they at least mean "children should not see it". I don't think there are any other connotations to that word we all can agree on. To infer anything else is to only cause confusion. Am I right?
rydiafan wrote:it's not gonna happen just deal with the drawn boobies
Unfortunately, I think that's the reality of things, though.
Daitengu wrote:The dictionary lists it as: writings, pictures, films, etc, designed to stimulate sexual excitement.Calling all nudity and sex, porn, just because it's personally objectionable is a gross misuse of words. It'd be like the government calling protestors terrorists. I've said it once before but there's 3 kinds of nudity and sex. Artistic, natural, and porn. Lumping it all together is just tossing out the baby with the bathwater. There's plenty of nudity and sex in National Geographic and fine art, but no one in a reasonable mind would call it porn.
Unfortunately, people don't always define porn by the dictionary, and especially not in conservative, Bible-only America where most moral definitions come from "the Bible" - or rather, whatever their pastor tells them the Bible says, whether it's in there or not. And very unfortunately, many conservative Christians have not quite yet come out of the Victorian era as far as modesty and morality are concerned (which is ironically rather the most immoddest and immoral part of our society, I might say).

They'd be very surprised to find that, by their definition, The Holy Bible itself is technically "pornographic". :lol:

A work which contains sex in it is not automatically pornographic. Pornography has, first and foremost, the purpose - the point - of making you fap. If it doesn't do that for the audience it's mean for, it is probably not pornography.

That said, the reverse is also true. Simply because it can appear on a screen in a mainstream cinema, doesn't make it non-pornographic. I would say quite a few anime in Japan are, while not explicitly H-films, technically pornographic because their only or chief real purpose is sexual titillation. Anime like Eiken or Seikon no Qwaser (which pisses me off all the more because they utterly fail in portraying Eastern Orthodoxy - to them it's hardly different from Roman Catholicism) I consider technically pornographic even though they aren't explicitly so.

I'd say KS is a non-pornographic VN with sex in it. It is possible to fap to it (I'm not proud of it). But that is not at all its purpose.
Besides, I think it takes a pretty messed up person to get aroused from scenes in KS. Some I actually cringed at reading.
I'm not proud of it. I'm NOT. :oops:
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Re: Remove Adult Content?

Post by Daitengu » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:48 pm

Paddy wrote:
Daitengu wrote:The dictionary lists it as: writings, pictures, films, etc, designed to stimulate sexual excitement.
Unfortunately, people don't always define porn by the dictionary, and especially not in conservative, Bible-only America where most moral definitions come from "the Bible" - or rather, whatever their pastor tells them the Bible says, whether it's in there or not. And very unfortunately, many conservative Christians have not quite yet come out of the Victorian era as far as modesty and morality are concerned (which is ironically rather the most immoddest and immoral part of our society, I might say).

They'd be very surprised to find that, by their definition, The Holy Bible itself is technically "pornographic". :lol:

A work which contains sex in it is not automatically pornographic. Pornography has, first and foremost, the purpose - the point - of making you fap. If it doesn't do that for the audience it's mean for, it is probably not pornography.
Oh I know about the bible belt. I live in it(Kansas). The thing about believing something is a curtain way, is that it doesn't mean that's how it actually is. And just because it's popular doesn't make it right. Racism for example.

The only way I see that people are going to get on the same page is to filter personal belief though academics. As such I have to use the word 'porn' in the way it fits to definition.
Paddy wrote: That said, the reverse is also true. Simply because it can appear on a screen in a mainstream cinema, doesn't make it non-pornographic. I would say quite a few anime in Japan are, while not explicitly H-films, technically pornographic because their only or chief real purpose is sexual titillation. Anime like Eiken or Seikon no Qwaser (which pisses me off all the more because they utterly fail in portraying Eastern Orthodoxy - to them it's hardly different from Roman Catholicism) I consider technically pornographic even though they aren't explicitly so.

I'd say KS is a non-pornographic VN with sex in it. It is possible to fap to it (I'm not proud of it). But that is not at all its purpose.
I don't actually think I can agree. As I'm looking at it from creator's intent instead of user's intent. Because if I did, then even a dog show could be porn to some viewers. >.<

Ever hear of hinting without doing? It's called teasing, and yes even titillation. The concept of 'ecchi' in Japan is similar. Where as hentai literally means pervert/perverted. It's like drinking alcohol-free beer, looks and tastes real, but you're not going to get drunk off it, no matter how much you drink.

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Alexbond45
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Re: Remove Adult Content?

Post by Alexbond45 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:01 pm

ziamatt wrote:
Alexbond45 wrote:Shouldn't It be obvious? The Political Term of "Adult Content" is anything that is shown that is something that has sex, nudity, and Ridiculous Violence that should not be viewed by children.
Source": http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/adult_content.
Did you forget to post a second link or something? Because that wiktionary link only mentions pornography and violence, neither of which describes Katawa Shoujo. It says nothing about nudity or even sex.
Yeah I was but The Internet was fluctuating AGAIN
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Paddy
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Re: Remove Adult Content?

Post by Paddy » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:18 pm

Daitengu wrote: Oh I know about the bible belt. I live in it(Kansas). The thing about believing something is a curtain way, is that it doesn't mean that's how it actually is. And just because it's popular doesn't make it right. Racism for example.

The only way I see that people are going to get on the same page is to filter personal belief though academics. As such I have to use the word 'porn' in the way it fits to definition.
If we keep using the same word, but attribute to it different meanings, we will never be able to have dialogue.
For example, depending on the context, "love" can mean dozens of different things. It can mean animal lust. It can mean a mutual, non-sexual affection. It can mean being willing to die for another, or an intense passion.

But unless both sides agree on one and only definition we are going to use, we're going to continue to have misunderstandings about what whether we even consider love right or not.
I don't actually think I can agree. As I'm looking at it from creator's intent instead of user's intent. Because if I did, then even a dog show could be porn to some viewers. >.<

Ever hear of hinting without doing? It's called teasing, and yes even titillation. The concept of 'ecchi' in Japan is similar. Where as hentai literally means pervert/perverted. It's like drinking alcohol-free beer, looks and tastes real, but you're not going to get drunk off it, no matter how much you drink.
You don't think the creators of such shows intend to suck men in with big tits, panty shots, and suggestive poses? Tap into their lustful tendencies to fill their pockets? There is a reason such stuff is called "soft porn" in English. Same intent as regular porn - just without breaking any censorship rules... or as many.

That would also be the difference between "Love Hina" and "Eiken". While both are titillating, Eiken has no story to speak of, and it's NOT particularly funny. "Love Hina", on the other hand, intends to have a plot and intends to be funny.
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Блажен муж, иже не иде на совет нечестивых.
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ziamatt
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Re: Remove Adult Content?

Post by ziamatt » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:24 pm

Paddy wrote:If we keep using the same word, but attribute to it different meanings, we will never be able to have dialogue.
For example, depending on the context, "love" can mean dozens of different things. It can mean animal lust. It can mean a mutual, non-sexual affection. It can mean being willing to die for another, or an intense passion.

But unless both sides agree on one and only definition we are going to use, we're going to continue to have misunderstandings about what whether we even consider love right or not.
It all comes down to this.
You either have:
"Nudity is necessarily adult content."
Or
"Nudity is not necessarily adult content."

If you agree that nudity = adult content, OP is absolutely correct for claiming that the "Remove Adult Content" feature was vague and misleading.
If you don't agree that nudity = adult content, OP is wrong about everything and the "Remove Adult Content" does remove all adult content present.

Once we move past this everything falls into place and is pretty much non-arguable at that point.

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Re: Remove Adult Content?

Post by Paddy » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:52 pm

ziamatt wrote:
Paddy wrote:If we keep using the same word, but attribute to it different meanings, we will never be able to have dialogue.
For example, depending on the context, "love" can mean dozens of different things. It can mean animal lust. It can mean a mutual, non-sexual affection. It can mean being willing to die for another, or an intense passion.

But unless both sides agree on one and only definition we are going to use, we're going to continue to have misunderstandings about what whether we even consider love right or not.
It all comes down to this.
You either have:
"Nudity is necessarily adult content."
Or
"Nudity is not necessarily adult content."

If you agree that nudity = adult content, OP is absolutely correct for claiming that the "Remove Adult Content" feature was vague and misleading.
If you don't agree that nudity = adult content, OP is wrong about everything and the "Remove Adult Content" does remove all adult content present.

Once we move past this everything falls into place and is pretty much non-arguable at that point.
Right. And since, being from all over the world, all over the political spectrum, all over the moral spectrum, all over every possible chart or graph of humanity you could possibly make, I don't think, even if we stick to the laws of each country, you could define adult content for everyone. (Or, at least, this is not the place to do it. The UN ought to make a statement. :|)

BUT you can define "sex scenes". That's a fairly obvious thing to define, for everyone.

The problem being not that the OP necessarily wants the "disable adult content" cheque to disable "adult content" (which in this forum and for this devteam is an impossible thing to do since there is as yet no universal rule that says "x,y, and z is adult content") but that he wants that cheque to do what it intends to do. Since intending to disable "adult content" is completely impossible in every corner of the world, disabling "sex scenes" is a more practical route.

And of course, there is also the option of disabling the "disable content" cheque, since it's rather flippant anyway.
I'm weary of the railway,
Poor Paddy works on the railway.

Блажен муж, иже не иде на совет нечестивых.
Blessed is the man, who walks not in the counsel of the wicked. (Psalm 1:1)
Got questions about God, Christianity, or the Catholic Church?

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Daitengu
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Re: Remove Adult Content?

Post by Daitengu » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:06 pm

Paddy wrote:If we keep using the same word, but attribute to it different meanings, we will never be able to have dialogue.
For example, depending on the context, "love" can mean dozens of different things. It can mean animal lust. It can mean a mutual, non-sexual affection. It can mean being willing to die for another, or an intense passion.

But unless both sides agree on one and only definition we are going to use, we're going to continue to have misunderstandings about what whether we even consider love right or not.

You don't think the creators of such shows intend to suck men in with big tits, panty shots, and suggestive poses? Tap into their lustful tendencies to fill their pockets? There is a reason such stuff is called "soft porn" in English. Same intent as regular porn - just without breaking any censorship rules... or as many.

That would also be the difference between "Love Hina" and "Eiken". While both are titillating, Eiken has no story to speak of, and it's NOT particularly funny. "Love Hina", on the other hand, intends to have a plot and intends to be funny.
/facepalm really? Lets break it down. If the creator wants you to fap to it, it's porn. If it's plot, comedy, and/or shameless attention grabs, it's not It's the same for both nudity and sex.

Eiken is just over the top crude humor, not soft porn lol. Soft porn is just sexy strip tease. No comedy, no plot, just the strip and probably a dance and some poses. Go to an adult video store and find out. Oh right, you're too young to enter one. Less believing what you are told and more exposure and learning will set you straight.


Personally I don't really care what people consider 'adult content'. Simply because life happens to kids too. I'm for keeping porn outa kids hands for sure. Same for violent games. Neither are necessary for survival at that age.

But if it were my kids, and it can be educational, inspirational, and/or bring awareness, I'd give him whatever they need to grow up level headed. I'm not talking porn n GTO lol, I'm talking media that can help present aspects of humanity from dark to hopeful so that they can understand themselves, and situations better. I actually think explaining sex is the easier talk. War, greed, strife, and social morality/psych, on the other hand is messy and difficult to explain to a kid. Hell there's lots of adults who don't understand those fully, but every adult knows what sex is.

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Re: Remove Adult Content?

Post by Paddy » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:16 pm

Daitengu wrote:/facepalm really? Lets break it down. If the creator wants you to fap to it, it's porn. If it's plot, comedy, and/or shameless attention grabs, it's not It's the same for both nudity and sex. Eiken is just over the top crude humor, not soft porn lol. Soft porn is just sexy strip tease. No comedy, no plot, just the strip and probably a dance and some poses.
I don't buy that about Eiken. Namely because no one in their right mind would think it was funny, or had a plot of any kind.

Although that attention grabbing... you might be onto something there. It's certainly ridiculous, and wondering how the authors of it could think it was funny is certainly attention-grabbing.

Well alright then. What would you call something like Alice in Wonderland, then? Not pretty, anyway.
Go to an adult video store and find out. Oh right, you're too young to enter one.
That's so funny I forgot to laugh. :roll: Especially considering I'm 20 and 3/4 years old.
But if it were my kids, and it can be educational, inspirational, and/or bring awareness, I'd give him whatever they need to grow up level headed. I'm not talking porn n GTO lol, I'm talking media that can help present aspects of humanity from dark to hopeful so that they can understand themselves, and situations better. I actually think explaining sex is the easier talk. War, greed, strife, and social morality/psych, on the other hand is messy and difficult to explain to a kid. Hell there's lots of adults who don't understand those fully, but every adult knows what sex is.
Much as I disagree with you, I definitely can understand, and more importantly respect, that.
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Poor Paddy works on the railway.

Блажен муж, иже не иде на совет нечестивых.
Blessed is the man, who walks not in the counsel of the wicked. (Psalm 1:1)
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Re: Remove Adult Content?

Post by Daitengu » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:43 pm

Paddy wrote: I don't buy that about Eiken. Namely because no one in their right mind would think it was funny, or had a plot of any kind.

Although that attention grabbing... you might be onto something there. It's certainly ridiculous and at times scary enough to do that.

Well alright then. What would you call something like Alice in Wonderland, then? Not pretty, anyway.
It's because to most Americans Japanese humor is weird. Believe it or not regardless of all the over sexualized shows and porn in Japan, they are having a depopulation crisis. People are waiting till their 30s and then only having 1 kid usually.

Alice in Wonderland? psychological fantasy.
Paddy wrote:That's so funny I forgot to laugh. :roll: Especially considering I'm 20 and 3/4 years old.
really now, I must have misread one of your posts. Well, go explore explore an adult video store, They got genres too lol.
Paddy wrote:Much as I disagree with you, I definitely can understand, and more importantly respect, that.
I just take a more practical approach to life instead of pragmatic. Most of the relevant things in life I had to learn from the Discovery channel back when they had educational programing. I never got important questions answered by my parents, and public schools in the south? HA! Sex ed was just scare tactics with no discussion. Evolution? not in courses. Native Americans? Savages that the white man beat back.

Funny that I got told I was abandoned by my biological father before I was born, but things like 'what is a pedophile' went unanswered or were mislabeled. In that example I was basically told a pedophile was a kidnapper. Not exactly true. Protecting a kid from pedos tends to force a talk about sex. If you want them to really know what a pedo is.

But yeah, My lack of knowledge as a kid, definitely messed me up. And I'm not talking about the examples I listed.

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Re: Remove Adult Content?

Post by Timic83 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:05 pm

The O.H.L. wrote:
Roy-Kr wrote:
rydiafan wrote:it really is a double standard in video games / VNs .... in GTA if you beat a group of hookers with a baseball bat , burn them with a flamethrower or run over them with a car socity in general is ok with that .... show a nipple its crossing some kind of moral line we can't get back from
Meh, it's mostly just you crazy americans who think like that.
And Australia. And New Zealand. And other western societies like that.
Australia doesn't even have a R18 rating.
for games... not everything >_>

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Re: Remove Adult Content?

Post by encrypted12345 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:40 pm

Timic83 wrote:
rydiafan wrote:it really is a double standard in video games / VNs .... in GTA if you beat a group of hookers with a baseball bat , burn them with a flamethrower or run over them with a car socity in general is ok with that .... show a nipple its crossing some kind of moral line we can't get back from
for games... not everything >_>
Actually, the same thing is true in television and movies if to a lesser extent. The movies military parents will show their kids. :lol: Trust me, I know.
Alexbond45 wrote:I always wonder what VN I should read next, but everyone is always bashing all the other ones.
There is a VN recommendation thread, though you have to read about 18 pages of outdated information. As soon as the /vn/ thread of /vg/ finishes up their chart, I'll post it up for convenience. While not everyone here will agree that everything in the list is great, speaking as someone who has played several dozen VNs, they're all worth a try. Just know that pacing issues are a frequent problem in VNs especially in some of the more highly rated ones.

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Re: Remove Adult Content?

Post by Paddy » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:39 pm

Daitengu wrote:It's because to most Americans Japanese humor is weird. Believe it or not regardless of all the over sexualized shows and porn in Japan, they are having a depopulation crisis. People are waiting till their 30s and then only having 1 kid usually.
On the contrary, I (sociological studies) assert that it's BECAUSE of pornography and an overly sexually stimulated society - among other sexual abuses like divorcing sex from procreation, a lack of respect for marriage, contraception, and divorce, among others - that Japan, and really the world Western world, is experiencing a greying.

I could go well into detail.
Alice in Wonderland? psychological fantasy.
Bullshit. It's porn and you know it. Call it whatever you like, it's still psychological fantasy porn. It's primary goal, above all others, is to titillate. It was part of the Golden Age of Porn FFS.
really now, I must have misread one of your posts. Well, go explore explore an adult video store, They got genres too lol.
No thanks. I have no reason to go do that. In fact, it would be counterproductive to the goals I have in mind, unless I would be protesting them.
But yeah, My lack of knowledge as a kid, definitely messed me up. And I'm not talking about the examples I listed.
Thank God for the Internet.
And for private schooling. Public school's pathetic by comparison (so I hear). I was educated in Catholic school since 2nd grade, and before then a Montessori school. Those were GOOD teachers. They paid a dear price for it, and Lord knows they were never rich. But damn it, they cared enough to pay for me to get a good, Catholic education. $5000 a year. Learned a helluva lot. Scare tactics in sex ed? No. Evolution? Hell yes, and that it is certainly reconcilable to a Christian faith. (God bless my biology teacher, Mr. Fyfe. Such a funny man, and such a good teacher.) History (including *gasp* the history of Judaism and Christianity)? Frank and open. No one was perfect. There were slaughters on all sides. Not to mention Moral Theology, Catholic Social Teaching, Church History (it was a separate class), and Hebrew and Christian Scriptures.
I'm weary of the railway,
Poor Paddy works on the railway.

Блажен муж, иже не иде на совет нечестивых.
Blessed is the man, who walks not in the counsel of the wicked. (Psalm 1:1)
Got questions about God, Christianity, or the Catholic Church?

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Re: Remove Adult Content?

Post by encrypted12345 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:28 pm

Paddy wrote:
Alice in Wonderland? psychological fantasy.
Bullshit. It's porn and you know it. Call it whatever you like, it's still psychological fantasy porn. It's primary goal, above all others, is to titillate. It was part of the Golden Age of Porn FFS.
I want to elaborate on something. Even if for whatever reason, its primary goal was to convey a message or evoke emotion through non-pornographic means, it's still undeniably porn because it probably had the secondary goal of sexual arousal. (Not that I would know because I do not ever want to see it.)

Almost everything with a sex scene or nudity has it for the sake of giving the urge to fap (KS being an absurdly rare non-example) even if said sex scene is somehow plot relevant and necessary to it. That is why it has the right to be called plot with porn. Maybe the plot would have been impossible to tell without said porn, but that doesn't make the porn itself any less pornographic.

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