Why is Hisao so disliked?

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Nobody in Particular
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Why is Hisao so disliked?

Post by Nobody in Particular » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:31 am

After reading a lot of opinions of Katawa Shoujo it seems that Hisao is a very disliked character. Can anyone actually explain this? Hisao made some mistakes in all of the routes but I don't think he deserves the hate.

Emi: Hisao probably made his stupidest mistake in Emi's route. Yes, we all realised that Emi's dad was dead long before Hisao ever did and I really have no explanation to why he couldn't figure it out sooner. Apart from this however I thought he was relatively good throughout the route. He said and did some stupid things in the bad ending I suppose, can't really defend him there, but I thought he was actually quite a good person in this route.

Lilly: The obvious mistake Hisao made was that he didn't take his medication and so had a heart attack. However, because of this he got laid by Lilly (twice) during the next two days so I think this was undeserved success on his behalf. The only other mistake I can think of here is that he didn't ask Lilly what was wrong during Act IV but this could also be blamed on Lilly. Apart from that he was good in this route too.

Hanako: I have to admit, I really don't understand the hate for Hisao in this route. Hisao helped Hanako immensely in her shyness and the mistakes he did make were because of how well he helped Hanako in the route. The bad and neutral ends instantly come to mind as Hisao was at fault for both. We don't know what happens in the bad end, Hanako may have got better or she may have got worse, we don't know and so we can't make any comment. What we do know is that he screwed Hanako's relationship with Lilly up, and probably his relationship with Lilly too. The neutral ending was perfectly... neutral and so while Hanako made some progress she may never have fully come out of her shell.. This brings me to the good end in which Hisao gives Hanako the courage to kiss him in public. He perhaps made a mistake in the h-scene, but who cares? I thought he was a very nice person, providing you get the good route.

Rin: This was perhaps the route in which Hisao screwed up the most. That being said I'm sure many of us would have made similar mistakes if we were in his position. Rin didn't want to do the art exhibition but because Hisao thought it would be the best option for her he pushed her to do it. He wanted Rin to do well, obviously, but I don't think you can fault him too much here. Unless you get the good ending this doesn't turn out well at all, but again he thought it would have been best for her. In Demused Hisao shouts at Rin as he has ran out of patience with her, which was obviously the wrong thing to do (and we all knew it was a bad decision) but I'm sure many of us would do the same. Hisao's mistakes were most obvious down this route but can you really blame him that much?

Shizune: I think Hisao did well to put up with Shizune for as long as he did. While in the bad end we can all agree that Hisao was a complete fuck-up in the good end he did a lot more good than bad. Actually I can't think of anything he did that was bad in this route, most of the stuff was Shizune's fault for being an annoying bitch.

Kenji: Because if you don't get a girlfriend within a week of going to a new school, you deserve to die.

So like I said I don't get the Hisao hate. I can't help but feel that it is because he is the protagonist and that people are always gonna side with the girls ahead of Hisao, but I thought he was one of the better protagonist I have ever played as in a game. Thoughts?

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newnar
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Re: Why is Hisao so disliked?

Post by newnar » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:48 am

I am a guy.
I sometimes talk like Rin Tezuka.
I am in love with Hanako Ikezawa.
NoOne3 wrote:Imagine a male Rin who secretly likes Hanako.
this
YES I AM. DEAL WITH IT.

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Tomate
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Re: Why is Hisao so disliked?

Post by Tomate » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:02 am

People hate Hisao? The dude is ok, he's just a scrawny, awkward nerdy guy who happens to be the master of romance.
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Bigbishounen
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Re: Why is Hisao so disliked?

Post by Bigbishounen » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:09 am

Tomate wrote:People hate Hisao? The dude is ok, he's just a scrawny, awkward nerdy guy who happens to be the master of romance.
And the King of Boners.

Impressive for a guy with a bad heart.
Hisao: You want to know who I am? I'm the boy with the broken heart.

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Re: Why is Hisao so disliked?

Post by encrypted12345 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:10 am

Most people can't pull off a sweater vest, so when they see someone who can, they get jealous of his swag.

I'm an Engineer

Re: Why is Hisao so disliked?

Post by I'm an Engineer » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:45 am

It's because he found the magical sweater vest that allows him to successfully get in a woman's pants no matter how stupid his decisions are and we didn't.

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Mirrormn
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Re: Why is Hisao so disliked?

Post by Mirrormn » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:14 am

Nobody in Particular wrote:After reading a lot of opinions of Katawa Shoujo it seems that Hisao is a very disliked character. Can anyone actually explain this? Hisao made some mistakes in all of the routes but I don't think he deserves the hate.

Emi: Hisao probably made his stupidest mistake in Emi's route. Yes, we all realised that Emi's dad was dead long before Hisao ever did and I really have no explanation to why he couldn't figure it out sooner. Apart from this however I thought he was relatively good throughout the route. He said and did some stupid things in the bad ending I suppose, can't really defend him there, but I thought he was actually quite a good person in this route.
Hisao thinks to himself at one point during Emi's route, "I have a few educated guesses, but nothing concrete. And certainly nothing that I'm going to say to her; I'd much prefer to have her tell me herself." I think Hisao has about as good of an idea as to the nature of Emi's accident as the reader does, and just wisely chooses not to confront Emi with this guess, because that would be grossly counterproductive. The revelation at the end is much more about Emi choosing to be open about her past than it is about the specific details of that past. I don't think he really made any mistakes at all in Emi's good route.
Nobody in Particular wrote:Lilly: The obvious mistake Hisao made was that he didn't take his medication and so had a heart attack. However, because of this he got laid by Lilly (twice) during the next two days so I think this was undeserved success on his behalf. The only other mistake I can think of here is that he didn't ask Lilly what was wrong during Act IV but this could also be blamed on Lilly. Apart from that he was good in this route too.
I absolutely cannot forgive Hisao for forgetting his medicine. Not taking it is a gigantic health risk and is grossly irresponsible. On the other hand, I think Lilly was pretty unfair to him in Act IV. Although at the end of the route he thinks things like "I never questioned it. I never tried to be there or asked when she needed me to," it's not like he was distant and dismissive. For example, after Lilly's outburst when Kenji ran into her, Hisao asks "You seem... quieter than usual recently. Is anything wrong?" Lilly could have easily brought up her summons to Scotland then, if she wanted Hisao to know about it (or, if there was not enough time just before class, tell him they needed to talk later at lunch or something). Lilly was intentionally hiding things from Hisao, and even though he might have been able to find out the truth if he pressed her, he could have just as easily come off as intrusive, clingy, and annoying in the attempt without gaining anything.
Nobody in Particular wrote:Hanako: I have to admit, I really don't understand the hate for Hisao in this route. Hisao helped Hanako immensely in her shyness and the mistakes he did make were because of how well he helped Hanako in the route. The bad and neutral ends instantly come to mind as Hisao was at fault for both. We don't know what happens in the bad end, Hanako may have got better or she may have got worse, we don't know and so we can't make any comment. What we do know is that he screwed Hanako's relationship with Lilly up, and probably his relationship with Lilly too. The neutral ending was perfectly... neutral and so while Hanako made some progress she may never have fully come out of her shell.. This brings me to the good end in which Hisao gives Hanako the courage to kiss him in public. He perhaps made a mistake in the h-scene, but who cares? I thought he was a very nice person, providing you get the good route.
I think a lot of people slightly misinterpret the message of Hanako's route. It seems like a lot of people read the good ending and think "Oh, damn me for being such a white knight and thinking I can fix the problems of the people I like. I should let people handle their own problems!" Well, yes and no. I don't think Hisao was necessarily wrong at all for worrying about Hanako so much. I mean, given her behavior in the beginning of the game (she can't have a friendly conversation in the library without fleeing in terror, she won't go shopping by herself or interact with a cashier to buy groceries, she won't do group work in class, etc.) it's clear that she's barely able to function autonomously in public, and needs, or at least greatly appreciates, help with daily activities. Sure, she gets a lot better as the route goes on, but when you see her have a panic attack in the middle of class, it's difficult not to think that progress was temporary and she is regressing.

No, Hisao's real mistake in Hanako's route (if you get a bad ending) is not showing enough genuine affection for her. In no way is this better demonstrated than by the choices you have to make to reach the good ending. In Beginning of the End, when you have to ask her to go into the city with you, that is the first time Hisao shows any interest in doing something with her for his own enjoyment rather than what he thinks she would be comfortable with. From Hanako's perspective, it must be very confusing to have feelings for someone (Hisao) but be unsure of whether they actually like you, or just feel sorry for you. Thus, if you spend the entire route without giving her any signs that the former is the case, you can't reach the good ending.

So I think the message of Hanako's route is more about the importance of realizing your own feelings and communicating them properly, rather than being careful not to help people who need help. And I think, from that perspective, Hisao acts pretty admirably throughout the route (provided you make the good ending choices). Even the painful awkwardness of the sex scene is as much Hanako's fault as it is his own (if she wasn't into it, she should have just said no instead of allowing it to happen to satisfy ulterior motives).
Nobody in Particular wrote:Rin: This was perhaps the route in which Hisao screwed up the most. That being said I'm sure many of us would have made similar mistakes if we were in his position. Rin didn't want to do the art exhibition but because Hisao thought it would be the best option for her he pushed her to do it. He wanted Rin to do well, obviously, but I don't think you can fault him too much here. Unless you get the good ending this doesn't turn out well at all, but again he thought it would have been best for her. In Demused Hisao shouts at Rin as he has ran out of patience with her, which was obviously the wrong thing to do (and we all knew it was a bad decision) but I'm sure many of us would do the same. Hisao's mistakes were most obvious down this route but can you really blame him that much?
There's no way you can fault Hisao for "pushing" Rin into holding the exhibition. For one, he barely does any "pushing" in the first place, depending on what choices you make in the route. In some choices he's more insistent than others. Regardless, in every circumstance, he only gives his thoughts on the matter on one occasion, and it's always because he thinks it will be what's best for Rin.

Now, as for the yelling in Demused, I would consider that a big mistake, probably Hisao's biggest in the game (aside from choosing to go on a manly picnic with Kenji). Hisao is, frankly, not very understanding of Rin's needs during this route. He gets overly angry at being pushed aside for the sake of painting, and he struggles considerably to get over that anger, even in the good ending.
Nobody in Particular wrote:Shizune: I think Hisao did well to put up with Shizune for as long as he did. While in the bad end we can all agree that Hisao was a complete fuck-up in the good end he did a lot more good than bad. Actually I can't think of anything he did that was bad in this route, most of the stuff was Shizune's fault for being an annoying bitch.
I wouldn't even say Shizune is an annoying bitch at all. For all the text in the game and all the discussion on the forums about how she doesn't think about others' emotions, how she doesn't express herself, how she's a poor girlfriend, etc., there's really not a lot of evidence for this in her actions. She's constantly doing things to be considerate of others (even all her Student Council work is revealed, in the end, to be nothing more than an attempt to make people happy); she talks about herself, her goals, her feelings, etc. with Hisao pretty much every time they are alone; she accepts Misha's criticisms of her (in the fight that occurs off-screen after the end of Act III) without complaint or argument; she desperately tries to repair her friendship with Misha once she realizes things are going poorly between them. She may not always be completely transparent or successful in these endeavors, but she tries her hardest to be a good person.

I will agree, though, that Hisao acted like a stone cold asshole in Shizune's bad ending. "You think you're being too selfish in our relationship so you want to end it? Better not attempt any kind of comfort or reconciliation, and instead turn around instantly and walk away so you have no ability to converse with me!
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Re: Why is Hisao so disliked?

Post by Paddy » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:35 am

While I haven't played through all of the game yet, from what I've seen Hisao's a decent man. Not as great, shining example of morality by any stretch, but hardly loathsome.

I don't get it, either.

Maybe the people who don't like him see in him (or what they impress on him) something they don't like about themselves?
Last edited by Paddy on Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is Hisao so disliked?

Post by rydiafan » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:39 am

Hisao is the player ... the choices he makes are the choices the player makes ( when given a choice that is )

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Re: Why is Hisao so disliked?

Post by Mahorfeus » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:40 am

Hisao is... dense. His nature is good, but he has the habit of being subconsciously selfish, something that tends to screw him over more often than not. I wouldn't say he's unlikable though.

Rather, the story's framing device puts us in his perspective, giving us some control over his actions, but not his rationales. We're basically the pair of gremlins that sit on his shoulders. So we are in the perfect position to judge him.

Some do so rather freely.
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Re: Why is Hisao so disliked?

Post by SplendidClaw » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:07 pm

I think Hisao gets a bad rap. He's not a shining example or anything, just kind of an average guy who makes stupid mistakes (like most of us do)

I would say the main two reasons he gets unwarranted flak are the following:

1. All of the girls in this game have really great characteristics about them. I think it's safe to say just about all of them are above and beyond in regards to personal strength, given what most have accomplished in spite of their disabilities. It doesn't define who they are, but it does help put into perspective what they have had to overcome in order to become strong people. Hisao, on the other hand, is your average homeboy. Not really a flaw, but when compared to such great characters, you can't help but have a more diminished opinion of him.

2. Hisao complains about his heart condition more than any of the girls complain about their disabilities. Again though, I can't really fault the guy. It JUST happened to him, and he's still trying to cope with this. Not only did this change his life in terms of his physical health, but he was pretty much unrooted from his old life and thrown into this one. I mean damn, I'd probably complain a little too if I were in his shoes. Also, the girls (or anyone else for that matter) don't really complain about this because they are used to it by now. Which ties into point #1.


The one legitimate beef I had with Hisao was his lack of physical care (minus Emi's route). I'm not saying the guy has to become a superstar athlete or anything, I'm just saying that when a doctor tells you "Hey, you know if you jog or run or walk or something, you'll probably live much longer" and you choose to ignore it, it's hard to feel sorry for you.

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Re: Why is Hisao so disliked?

Post by Pentaghost » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:21 pm

SplendidClaw wrote: 2. Hisao complains about his heart condition more than any of the girls complain about their disabilities. Again though, I can't really fault the guy. It JUST happened to him, and he's still trying to cope with this. Not only did this change his life in terms of his physical health, but he was pretty much unrooted from his old life and thrown into this one. I mean damn, I'd probably complain a little too if I were in his shoes. Also, the girls (or anyone else for that matter) don't really complain about this because they are used to it by now. Which ties into point #1.

The one legitimate beef I had with Hisao was his lack of physical care (minus Emi's route). I'm not saying the guy has to become a superstar athlete or anything, I'm just saying that when a doctor tells you "Hey, you know if you jog or run or walk or something, you'll probably live much longer" and you choose to ignore it, it's hard to feel sorry for you.
This was the main complaint I had about Hisao too. Although, to be fair to him, most of his complaining was done in his head. He didn't talk about it a great deal. The girls could have had just as much inner conflict regarding their disabilities as Hisao, we just don't hear it. It annoyed me that he has a new life where he is making real friends, not just the "acquaintances" of his previous existence, and he can't help feeling sorry for himself.

The only time I genuinely disliked the boy was when he slept with Misha and didn't even seem to feel any remorse. Shizune was also my favourite character (I think, it changes all the time) so it annoyed me that little extra that he'd do something like that.

All in all, like others have said, he's just a normal guy who makes stupid mistakes like the rest of us.

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Re: Why is Hisao so disliked?

Post by encrypted12345 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:54 pm

SplendidClaw wrote:2. Hisao complains about his heart condition more than any of the girls complain about their disabilities. Again though, I can't really fault the guy. It JUST happened to him, and he's still trying to cope with this. Not only did this change his life in terms of his physical health, but he was pretty much unrooted from his old life and thrown into this one. I mean damn, I'd probably complain a little too if I were in his shoes. Also, the girls (or anyone else for that matter) don't really complain about this because they are used to it by now. Which ties into point #1.
I agree with your sentiment. A disease affecting the heart is a terrible, terrible thing. The amount of medication he needs to take alone is nauseating. As someone who has a family with a history with diabetes and is more or less resigned to his eventual obtaining of it, I can somewhat emphasize with that despair.

Now, if you guys want to see a disabled protagonist who is truly head-banger worthy, try the freeware Brass Restoration. While he keeps up a facade, he is angstier than Hisao. Because he loses his left hand. I know that he lost his dream of becoming a drummer and all, but come on!! I couldn't handle more than 30 minutes of that VN.

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Re: Why is Hisao so disliked?

Post by CarnivalNights » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:48 pm

Because we're not him.
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Re: Why is Hisao so disliked?

Post by gRaViJa » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:04 pm

I don't hate Hisao at all. He makes good and bad decisions, just as we all would do.
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