Emi's Bad Ending Made Me Sad

A forum for general discussion of the game: Open to all punters
TheEdward39
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Emi's Bad Ending Made Me Sad

Post by TheEdward39 » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:04 pm

I have known someone like that - she set up a ridiculously similar scenario, though she was worse than even Bad Ending Emi was.
Now THAT may be the reason for the difference in our ways of thinking... I may not be able to think like you, because I haven't known anybody who's (even in only the slightest way) like Emi.
I always try to see the bright side of the things, and because of that, I might have slipped over some (important) details -that you mentioned as well-
And now that I have read your comment, I still like the story of Emi (probably because hers was the first route I got in the novel, and most of my beautiful memories are related to her) but I have an image of her "bitch personality" as well... :D

Talking to her mother wasn't a mistake at all, it is normal to seek for help and advice where it's possible, and knowing Emi wouldn't be willing to make his job easier but even more harder, the only people who could be really helpful are her mom and the nurse, who both want you to succeed.
And they know that Emi is afraid of losing the ones she loves, but they also know that it is way easier to carry a weight like this with the help of someone who is not your family nor a doctor, but someone who cares about you in a way no one else can. Someone who really loves you...
Probably the biggest mistake Hisao made was trying to get things in straight, and loving Emi so much to want to help her and see her happy.
Because I got the good end first, it's kinda natural to me to say that "Ah, doesn't matter, cause in the end everything is fine and problems got sorted out" and though Emi showed that she can love, and let you close to her, I'm still left wondering if that was a lasting relationship.
But as Emi is a little childish, and the their relationship is more like a teenage-love (or romance, I'd say) it is more likely to be short and passionate. But this is the story of two teenagers falling in love. With a little bit of drama (which was, by the way, really well-written and touching to me)

User avatar
ravenlord
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:39 pm
Location: usa

Re: Emi's Bad Ending Made Me Sad

Post by ravenlord » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:58 pm

The other thing with "bad ending " Emi is that this is not the first time that she has pulled that kind of breakup. She dumped the first guy that she was sleeping with for the same reason: she just wanted a friends-with-benifits relationship and he tried to get too close to her by wanting something more. She is stuck in a loop, and poor Hisao just happens to be the next guy up to bat. If he can't get her into the good ending, then she will probably just continue on in a cycle of disposable relationships.
Hanako>Shizune>Lilly>Emi>Rin {100% complete}
Image
"痘痕も靨" (If there is love, then smallpox scars are as pretty as dimples) ~ Japanese proverb

User avatar
Xanatos
Posts: 5365
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:40 pm

Re: Emi's Bad Ending Made Me Sad

Post by Xanatos » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:07 pm

ravenlord wrote:The other thing with "bad ending " Emi is that this is not the first time that she has pulled that kind of breakup. She dumped the first guy that she was sleeping with for the same reason: she just wanted a friends-with-benefits relationship and he tried to get too close to her by wanting something more. She is stuck in a loop, and poor Hisao just happens to be the next guy up to bat. If he can't get her into the good ending, then she will probably just continue on in a cycle of disposable relationships.
I bet she latched onto Kenji next...
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."

Nyzer
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:59 pm

Re: Emi's Bad Ending Made Me Sad

Post by Nyzer » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:08 pm

ravenlord wrote:The other thing with "bad ending " Emi is that this is not the first time that she has pulled that kind of breakup. She dumped the first guy that she was sleeping with for the same reason: she just wanted a friends-with-benifits relationship and he tried to get too close to her by wanting something more. She is stuck in a loop, and poor Hisao just happens to be the next guy up to bat. If he can't get her into the good ending, then she will probably just continue on in a cycle of disposable relationships.
Yep. And that's my issue with Emi; if Hisao doesn't break her shell down, she does treat relationships as something disposable. People like that exist, and I've never been comfortable with that way of thinking. Especially when they don't let their partner know until a good while later on.
All you really need to know is that there's a gun that shoots shurikens and lightning. I wish I could make something like that up; it shoots shurikens and lightning.

Guest Poster
Posts: 1266
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:42 am

Re: Emi's Bad Ending Made Me Sad

Post by Guest Poster » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:15 pm

The other thing with "bad ending " Emi is that this is not the first time that she has pulled that kind of breakup. She dumped the first guy that she was sleeping with for the same reason: she just wanted a friends-with-benifits relationship and he tried to get too close to her by wanting something more. She is stuck in a loop, and poor Hisao just happens to be the next guy up to bat. If he can't get her into the good ending, then she will probably just continue on in a cycle of disposable relationships.
I very much agree that without Good End Hisao, Emi might have continued that negative loop. But I'm not so sure that all that Emi wanted was a friends-with-benefits relationship. Personally, I think she wanted more, but was incapable of giving it. She genuinely liked Hisao, but once he got within a certain distance she started feeling so uncomfortable that she started acting distant to push him away. I don't think she liked that aspect of herself, but when the situation repeated itself, she just couldn't resist falling back into her old pattern.

As others pointed out, people with Emi's attachment issues are not uncommon in real life and like Emi, many of them go from disfunctional relationship to disfunctional relationship, always genuinely hoping that things will be different this time around and yet always falling prey to the same pattern without being able to help themselves.
Sisterhood: True Edition. Hanako epilogue I wrote. Now expanded with additional chapters.

ProfAllister
Posts: 492
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Emi's Bad Ending Made Me Sad

Post by ProfAllister » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:48 pm

Nyzer wrote:It's not uncommon for someone going through a tough time to not want to open up with all the sordid details to someone they're not all that close to. And sometimes, it can make things worse. It's less that he doesn't want anyone's help, and more that he's embarrassed, ashamed, depressed, and probably doesn't believe anyone else could help anyway.
When you put it that way, it mirrors Emi even more than my phrasing.
You can't make Hisao stay and talk to her mom unless you've made him have a completely unrelated conversation with Mutou by that point. And if I recall correctly, if he follows her, the argument eventually degenerates enough that he asks something about her father, rudely, because of course he's figured out that he's the core of her darkness. He realizes how rude it was as soon as he says it, but she is enraged about it and tells him to get out for it.
The key line was Hisao disgustedly saying that her secrets can lie in the grave for all he cares. Not directly about her father, but close enough.
BadEmi Hisao won't even try to fight arguments she doesn't believe herself.
I'd phrase that differently: BadEmi Hisao is too hurt, confused, and lacking self-confidence to effectively try to fight arguments he doesn't fully realize she doesn't believe herself. Especially "confused". The difference between BadEmi and GoodEmi is whether or not Hisao has someone else's perspective on the situation. When he gets that, he ends up a little less confused, and is able to cut through her shell of bull to get at what's really bothering her.
That's the trick with Emi's route. For a good end, all Hisao needs to do is admit to himself (via Misha) that he's in over his head. On the other hand, if Hisao talks to Mutou, he takes Mutou's advice on observation and has the opportunity to get the perspectives of the Nurse, Emi's mom, and Iwanako. Arguably, there are (at least) two GoodEmi Hisaos.
Also, Emi allows Hisao to make stupid mistakes. In the other arcs, one wrong choice is an express train to Bad Ending. For Emi, you need to make two wrong choices. The second chance is an important detail.
Um, the first "choice", being talking to her mom (if you have the option), isn't Hisao making a stupid mistake. Emi just freaked out about her father and left the table in a hurry, what did she think those two, who have nothing in common but her, were going to discuss? The wallpaper? Though Emi does, at least, realize she went overboard when Hisao is respectful about her asking him to leave. But, no, that one isn't a stupid mistake. He literally had nothing else to do but sit at the table and say nothing in a horribly awkward silence that wouldn't help anything. If Emi's mom had left the table... eh, maybe, but I still wouldn't say so.
The second choice isn't really a stupid mistake. See what I said before about why he might not want to discuss everything with Misha. The same thing is a stupid mistake in Hanako's arc, but the circumstances are totally different - a close friend of both Hisao and his love interest, who seems to know them quite well, gives him advice. The option isn't whether to get her advice or not, but whether to act on it after getting it. This is not that.
And, IIRC, part of the reason for the "second chance" is because Emi's arc, otherwise, only had one real choice that affected the outcome. There's still Mutou's conversation which is needed to set it up, but again, it's something totally unrelated...
She doesn't "allow" him to make that one mistake (that is, confronting her about her dad in that argument), which is, in all honestly, almost trivial compared to hers. If he manages to break through her shell, and if that's the ending setup you got, she's more than willing to be forgiving about it. Otherwise, she uses it as a good excuse to break off the relationship. She uses it as a mostly legitimate excuse - "you and I just aren't working", which is true - but, still. They're not working because she's put him into a state of ridiculous confusion and then gets upset about his attempts to make sense of what the hell is going on.
We're getting some overlap of game terms and story terms, which is probably my fault. From a game perspective, the "right" path is to talk to Mutou, then talk to Emi's mom. If you miss either of those flags, according to the "one strike" model, you're getting a Bad End, but the second chance is there, giving you a second opportunity to get it right. All the other arcs (with the possible exception of Rin's, as mentioned) follow a "one strike" model. At best, you have multiple opportunities to fail, but one failure means total failure.

From the story perspective, the "mistake" is whatever happens at dinner. If you talk to her mom, Emi feels betrayed, but things stay civil-ish. If you talk to Emi, things don't really stay civil. Either way, she uses it as an excuse to try to break things off, but gently - she won't let herself be the bad guy. She stops to listen to Hisao, even if she keeps the pressure on, and refuses to let herself lose. And she really listens. As nice as Hisao's epic speeches about determination are, they would mean nothing if Emi simply refused to listen.

Emi is conflicted, confused, and scared. She likes Hisao, she likes what they have together, and she wants it to be meaningful. But she's afraid what will happen if she opens up. Her father's death cut her deep. She doesn't want to be hurt like that again, so she refuses to let anyone get close. She really truly cares for Hisao - much more than she'd be able to admit. That's why she keeps prodding him, trying to push him away. She wants him to give up, so she can feel less guilty about her cowardice. If her fear was justified - if Hisao didn't really care, then she wasn't a coward. She was justifiably cautious.

Which leads us to another detail: Emi sees herself as a poor pathetic cripple. She runs to prove a point to herself, that she isn't physically crippled. But, at the end of the day, she's still missing her legs. She shuts everyone else out to prove a point to herself, that she isn't emotionally crippled. But, at the end of the day, she's terrified of loving anyone as much as she loved her father. And she hates herself for it. She wants to get over it, she wants to love other people. But she can't. And that tears her up inside.
Current Project: Misha Pseudo-Route

Discord ID: ProfAllister#9754

Guest Poster
Posts: 1266
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:42 am

Re: Emi's Bad Ending Made Me Sad

Post by Guest Poster » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:57 pm

Very well-argumentated analysis of Emi's inner conflict.
Sisterhood: True Edition. Hanako epilogue I wrote. Now expanded with additional chapters.

Post Reply