Lilly and politically correct language for the blind

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Radien
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Lilly and politically correct language for the blind

Post by Radien » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:59 am

I'm playing through Lilly's path right now. Being as I've done Hanako's path, and have been through the game at least three times, I've read quite a bit of dialog with Lilly to begin with, but now I'm focusing on it. Hisao seems to frequently worry about using words like "see" and "look" when Lilly is around. He sometimes even feels bad about using them to refer to things HE is doing, as opposed to Lilly.

This is really starting to strike me as oversensitive. I actually have a blind friend, myself, and I freely use language such as "would you like to go look around?" English uses "look" and "see" to describe discovering new things and exploring, so the words are very hard to avoid. But I've never really asked my blind friend whether they bother her, or anyone else in her situation. (Yes, I could just ask her directly, but she lives out of town now, and I don't talk to her very often anymore, so it seemed to make more sense bringing it up here.)

Considering how people want to be treated is important, to be sure, but in this case I think intent is the biggest thing. Am I far off the mark?... Do we have many blind members here? (If we do, we could have some interesting discussions about screen-readers and such, but I'm already familiar with the tools my visually-impaired friend uses to communicate online, so don't feel obligated on my account.)
Paths completed so far (in order): Emi, Hanako, Shizune, Lilly (good endings)

Currently playing: Rin's path

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Tomate
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Re: Lilly and politically correct language for the blind

Post by Tomate » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:35 am

I was going to write a small wall of text, but i can sum it up with: awkward Hisao is awkward.
Don't just eat that hamburger, eat the HELL out of it!

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Radien
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Re: Lilly and politically correct language for the blind

Post by Radien » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:47 am

Tomate wrote:I was going to write a small wall of text, but i can sum it up with: awkward Hisao is awkward.
Heh. No kidding. In real life I'd consider it a small miracle for him to date some of these girls.

But then, the game ended up being almost educational, in an "eye-opener" sort of way, so I guess that's part of it. Sometimes when Hisao is having something explained to him, I'm reminded of Sesame Street.

It might sound strange, but I wish I could read your wall of text. So long as you didn't delete a large block you'd already typed, though, that's okay. :)
Paths completed so far (in order): Emi, Hanako, Shizune, Lilly (good endings)

Currently playing: Rin's path

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Nobody in Particular
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Re: Lilly and politically correct language for the blind

Post by Nobody in Particular » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:11 pm

Well Lilly mentioned it a number of times that Hisao shouldn't change his sentences just for her, and that she was fine with him saying those things. She was born blind so I don't see (HURR DURR) how it would offend her in anyway, it isn't like you can miss what you have never had.

Same thing could apply to Shizune, except using words like hear and listen in sign language. Actually it could also apply to Rin as well, using a word like hand. I suppose it wouldn't apply to Emi and Hanako, for obvious reasons.

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Bigbishounen
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Re: Lilly and politically correct language for the blind

Post by Bigbishounen » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:18 pm

Nobody in Particular wrote:Well Lilly mentioned it a number of times that Hisao shouldn't change his sentences just for her, and that she was fine with him saying those things. She was born blind so I don't see (HURR DURR) how it would offend her in anyway, it isn't like you can miss what you have never had.

Same thing could apply to Shizune, except using words like hear and listen in sign language. Actually it could also apply to Rin as well, using a word like hand. I suppose it wouldn't apply to Emi and Hanako, for obvious reasons.
I dunno. Emi did show sensitivity to Hisao's height related remarks, although i suspect that had more to do with her generally diminutive stature even BEFORE she lost her legs than it did with her legs specifically. Nonetheless, her exception did give Hisao pause to consider it.

Also, I'm thinking that ever using the phrases: "That's a burn!" or "I'm so burned out." around Hanako would get you (at the least) a dirty look. :lol:
Hisao: You want to know who I am? I'm the boy with the broken heart.

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NoOne3
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Re: Lilly and politically correct language for the blind

Post by NoOne3 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:29 pm

Nobody in Particular wrote:Same thing could apply to Shizune, except using words like hear and listen in sign language.
As far as Shizune is concerned, we might never knowfor sure. But they are using different language, which Japanese Sign Language really is. I'm pretty certain JSL, or any sign language, would use sign for "signing" and "reading sign" instead. Though I don't really know for sure.
Bigbishounen wrote:"That's a burn!" or "I'm so burned out."
The first one seems forced, the second pretty innocent. I don't think the main occupation for every disabled person is listening intently into other people waiting for some idiomatic expression, just to get enraged and offended. Until you try to be an ass on purpose there's no need to be so overcautious.
Last edited by NoOne3 on Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bigbishounen
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Re: Lilly and politically correct language for the blind

Post by Bigbishounen » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:31 pm

NoOne3 wrote:I don't think the main occupation for every disabled person is listening intently into other people waiting for some idiomatic expression, just to get enraged and offended. Until you try to be an ass on purpose there's no need to be so overcautious.
WHOOOOOOSHHH!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hisao: You want to know who I am? I'm the boy with the broken heart.

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Nobody in Particular
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Re: Lilly and politically correct language for the blind

Post by Nobody in Particular » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:47 pm

Bigbishounen wrote: I dunno. Emi did show sensitivity to Hisao's height related remarks, although i suspect that had more to do with her generally diminutive stature even BEFORE she lost her legs than it did with her legs specifically. Nonetheless, her exception did give Hisao pause to consider it.
I think you answered your own question there.

Emi was most likely born small, and her prosthetic legs are probably about the same size as her old legs.
Bigbishounen wrote:Also, I'm thinking that ever using the phrases: "That's a burn!" or "I'm so burned out." around Hanako would get you (at the least) a dirty look. :lol:
Or using the word fire. That being said I think that she wouldn't really care, since she doesn't seem like the type to get offended.

Now that I think about it Shizune might not even get offended by those kinds of words, and Rin probably wouldn't notice it or care if she did.

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FluffandCrunch
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Re: Lilly and politically correct language for the blind

Post by FluffandCrunch » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:57 pm

Lilly never was very concerned about Hisao's words, he was the one who made it awkward for himself.
Master of Romance, indeed. 8)

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Radien
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Re: Lilly and politically correct language for the blind

Post by Radien » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:10 am

FluffandCrunch wrote:Lilly never was very concerned about Hisao's words, he was the one who made it awkward for himself.
Master of Romance, indeed. 8)
True, but Hisao has the gift of making it awkward for everybody. He even called Hanako on it and made her feel bad at one point in Lilly's branch (just got that far today).

Ironically, Lilly's path looks like it has the potential to become my favorite. But whether Lilly having a relationship with Hisao is believable or not... well, the jury's still out on that one.
Paths completed so far (in order): Emi, Hanako, Shizune, Lilly (good endings)

Currently playing: Rin's path

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Thrasher Thetic
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Re: Lilly and politically correct language for the blind

Post by Thrasher Thetic » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:09 am

Who remembers Yukko's sesame street moment in act 1?

It's only a big deal if you make it one.
The only difference between theory and reality is that in theory there is no difference, but in reality there is.

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Snow_Storm
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Re: Lilly and politically correct language for the blind

Post by Snow_Storm » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:57 am

Let's be honest here and break shit down: Maybe perhaps Hisao never hung out with anyone with a disability or had friends with 'em so he doesn't know what wrods to use around them and believes saying shit like "Seeing" or "watch" would offend Lilly.

Believe me when I saw the majority of those with handicaps do not give a fuck with your use politically incorrect terms with them and actually get offended if you use PC terms.

I have a college buddy who has cerbal parsley and he hates it when people use politically correct language with him, like he thinks it make people view him as a child or some shit.

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Tachikoma
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Re: Lilly and politically correct language for the blind

Post by Tachikoma » Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:38 pm

Snow_Storm wrote:I have a college buddy who has cerbal parsley and he hates it when people use politically correct language with him, like he thinks it make people view him as a child or some shit.
That's ironic to say the least. So basically you are saying, the people who are likely to be offended over non-PC language are the ones without a handicap!

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Radien
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Re: Lilly and politically correct language for the blind

Post by Radien » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:31 am

Thrasher Thetic wrote:Who remembers Yukko's sesame street moment in act 1?

It's only a big deal if you make it one.
Oh, how could we forget it. :) Especially since it plays in every path, doesn't it?

I don't necessarily object to the scene, though. I just think Hisao's kinda dense and doesn't always seem like the kind of guy who'd understand these particular girls well enough to gain such close affections.
Snow_Storm wrote:Let's be honest here and break shit down: Maybe perhaps Hisao never hung out with anyone with a disability or had friends with 'em so he doesn't know what wrods to use around them and believes saying shit like "Seeing" or "watch" would offend Lilly.
Oh, believe me, that's how it comes across to me too. I just... well, see above.
Snow_Storm wrote:Believe me when I saw the majority of those with handicaps do not give a fuck with your use politically incorrect terms with them and actually get offended if you use PC terms.

I have a college buddy who has cerbal parsley and he hates it when people use politically correct language with him, like he thinks it make people view him as a child or some shit.
You see, that's the assumption I've been working off of all this time. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't overlooking something.

Of course, a little bit of courtesy can go a long way, too. Remember that blind friend I mentioned? Once she came to a party of mine. She was there on her own, so another (male) friend of mine offered to guide her (it was an outdoor party, so uneven ground was a concern). It seemed to go over pretty well with her. They're married now. ;)
Paths completed so far (in order): Emi, Hanako, Shizune, Lilly (good endings)

Currently playing: Rin's path

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