Hanako's Broken Heart Club

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Eurobeatjester
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Eurobeatjester » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:14 pm

The harder you look to find the answer, the less likely you are to find it.

KS, and the emotions it invokes for different people - it just is. No amount of analysis is going to give you the reason why.
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Eurobeatjester wrote:I doubt my ability to write convincing lesbian erotica
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YZQ
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by YZQ » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:22 pm

Eurobeatjester wrote:The harder you look to find the answer, the less likely you are to find it.

KS, and the emotions it invokes for different people - it just is. No amount of analysis is going to give you the reason why.
No harm trying. Here's my take:

1) The KS cast manages to cover many issues people encounter in real life encounter. A sudden event that changes your life? Death in the family? Bullying? All these, and more are brought up and discussed.

2) KS also holds a mirror into each everyone can examine themselves. Have they been too stubborn and closed-minded? Are they absolutely convinced that X is happening when in fact, it's anything from A-W? As you read the stories, think about it: Have you been denying yourself some hard truths, or do your thoughts need some serious reworking? Such questions can be hard, and many people simply bury them and pretend they don't exist.

3) KS also swings a lot of truth sledgehammers in terms of human behaviour and emotions to your gut. Are people inconsistent? Hell yeah. Can they do so subconsciously? Why not? Can people get self-destructive, realise it and do nothing about it? Plenty of them in the streets.

4) KS also made it clear that while you can offer help, the other person must be the one who wants to accept assistance. Trying to force anything down people's throats will only backfire.
"Nothing is beneath man. Everything is permitted."

"...since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved. However, it is important above all to avoid being hated."

LilyKitsune
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by LilyKitsune » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:56 pm

azumeow wrote:
LilyKitsune wrote:Tomorrow i go for a consult to have ny nose done. It's terrifying. Not the process, but the idea that even after it i may remain still too ugly for anyone. I'm not sure if i could take that realization.
Hope that turned out well. Even if it's been like a month....
Im looking at a 7500 dollar cost. Its... bad. And of course theres no guarantee ill be decent looking enough aftwrwards.

YZQ
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by YZQ » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:07 pm

That is USD, I take it?
"Nothing is beneath man. Everything is permitted."

"...since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved. However, it is important above all to avoid being hated."

LilyKitsune
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by LilyKitsune » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:39 pm

YZQ wrote:That is USD, I take it?
Yep.

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GlassAlmanac
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by GlassAlmanac » Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:47 pm

BMFJack wrote:
GlassAlmanac wrote:So I've made it my life goal to figure out why this VN is what is, through research, study and intense analysis.
Don't you think that's falling back into old habits a bit? Emotions cannot be defined, and as you experienced they don't take well to being ruled. They're powerful, elusive, and necessary.

It's my opinion that Katawa Shoujo is as strong as it is because of the dev team. The amount of time and effort they invested into it, the way they didn't really leave anything up to one single person but worked together as a group on everything (feedback that inspires change counts as work, in my opinion)

They were given an idea, and they were so inspired by the idea that their dream was to see it into reality. It's not something which can be wholly put into words.
Eurobeatjester wrote:The harder you look to find the answer, the less likely you are to find it.

KS, and the emotions it invokes for different people - it just is. No amount of analysis is going to give you the reason why.
I can understand your trepidations and appreciate your concerns, especially when I throw around terms like, "research" and "analysis" which are considered to be scientific in nature. But my study is more geared towards a philosophical approach, which at its core is a vast study on reality, existence, knowledge, values, reason, the mind, and language. I don't intend to find some cold mathematical reason to why KS is what it is. eh, well...words fail me... Here let me show you with what this person above just recently put...
YZQ wrote:
2) KS also holds a mirror into each everyone can examine themselves. Have they been too stubborn and closed-minded? Are they absolutely convinced that X is happening when in fact, it's anything from A-W? As you read the stories, think about it: Have you been denying yourself some hard truths, or do your thoughts need some serious reworking? Such questions can be hard, and many people simply bury them and pretend they don't exist.

3) KS also swings a lot of truth sledgehammers in terms of human behaviour and emotions to your gut. Are people inconsistent? Hell yeah. Can they do so subconsciously? Why not? Can people get self-destructive, realise it and do nothing about it? Plenty of them in the streets.
This is a perfect example of a philosophical analysis of KS, and is no more than what I seek in my study(but to be fair it could also be categorized a mild obsession((which I think is fine, a wise old friend once told me "everyone needs a healthy obsession"))).
“The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.”
― Elie Wiesel

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BMFJack
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by BMFJack » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:14 pm

Ah, I see. Sounds good then, just wanted to make sure you didn't climb out of a hole only to fall right back in because of the rope you used to get out.

Honestly I wouldn't bother trying to put words to the greatness of Katawa Shoujo. It cheapens the power of the experience. Cherish the memories, replay every couple of years, and worship the gods that are Four Leaf Studios.

YZQ
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by YZQ » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:04 pm

Gotta disagree with the words part. After all, that's what Rin struggles with. The replays are for the reapplications of truth sledgehammers to your gut.

Words may not fully capture the experience, but I dare say it'll be able to capture most of it.
"Nothing is beneath man. Everything is permitted."

"...since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved. However, it is important above all to avoid being hated."

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BMFJack
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by BMFJack » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:59 am

YZQ wrote:Words may not fully capture the experience, but I dare say it'll be able to capture most of it.
That's the basis of what I'm saying. By not fully capturing it, you've cheapened it by leaving off some bits. It's a valiant struggle, but it's also an impossible goal.

a_struggling_man
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by a_struggling_man » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:12 pm

Hi I'm back,
Yes you must be confused because you've never heard of an account like this. However about a year ago I discussed my emotional problems with you (on another account) and boy did you guys help. So about a year and a bit later I need your advice again.
But first some back story. I've never been the "player" as people called it and I've always been committed to my girlfriends no matter the situation which is why I've only had three in my life, however I am 17. Three months ago and a bit I met this girl, lets name her "Emi" for this case. I met Emi in my first day of sixth form (college) and my eyes were drawn to her, everything asset of hers attracted me. We then got to talking after I skyped her and my mate. Things were great. And one party later we're dating and we've even had sex (second person wooo).
Now I know what your thinking how can I complain if we're dating? Well things get a bit twisted. She's recovering from an eating disorder and has low stages where she'll either cry in bed alone, self-harm or try and overdose. I know this and I always try to help. I call her or even go and see her. But it always ends the same apart from the select few. I've told her that I cant just accept that she does this and not try and stop it, she thinks I should accept it. Sometimes she even gets mad and we argue down to my short patience. And I feel like a dick afterwards.
However, one day why'll she was asleep on me I was bored so I went on her phone and found a twitter account of hers I've never seen before. Normally she rants and complains on her private. But this one is different. It has all the things she hates. It mentions about her stalker girl who made her have the eating disorder. It mentions about my friend who almost molested her. It mentions her nightmares and her insecurities. It saddened and scared me so much so that I cried right there and then. But what hit me the most was the one tweet about me. We'll call me "Hisao" in this case"
"Hisao is all that really cares about me, if not for him what would be the point."
This hit me hard. I love this girl and yes I'm sure its love. She's done so much for me and I have for her. But I don't know how to help her or what to do. She's recovering but for how long? And how can I show her that her scars and insecurities don't matter? I'm not leaving her no matter what. I need your guys help on what to do and how to help her. Thank you she means the world to me.

YZQ
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by YZQ » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:31 pm

BMFJack wrote:
YZQ wrote:Words may not fully capture the experience, but I dare say it'll be able to capture most of it.
That's the basis of what I'm saying. By not fully capturing it, you've cheapened it by leaving off some bits. It's a valiant struggle, but it's also an impossible goal.
Guess we have to agree to disagree. While it is best to experience it at 100%, knowing about it even without its full fury will be enough for some. As Illidan will say," YOU! ARE NOT! PREPARED!"
"Nothing is beneath man. Everything is permitted."

"...since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved. However, it is important above all to avoid being hated."

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GlassAlmanac
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by GlassAlmanac » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:08 pm

a_struggling_man wrote: how can I show her that her scars and insecurities don't matter?
I'd say the best answer I can give is the very next sentence you said.
a_struggling_man wrote:I'm not leaving her no matter what.
Aside from that you can acknowledge her troubles and offer you consult(by which I mean listening and offering your perspective). But ultimately its up to her if she'll let you help with her problems more directly. You can offer to help with her issues but its up to her if she'll let you help directly or not.

Of course there is one major exception; the most worrying thing you mentioned, that she has harmed her-self and you hinted at an attempted overdose. A difficult subject to broach So I'll quote an authority on the matter...

This is from the American Foundation for Preventing Suicide:
"If a friend confides in me that they are thinking of suicide and makes me promise not to tell, shouldn’t I respect their right to privacy?

Privacy is very important, but your friend’s life is even more important. Depression and other mental disorders may be distorting their judgment and leading them to want to hurt themselves. Even if you lose your friendship, saving a life is the most important priority. Tell someone you trust about your friend and ask for their assistance getting them to a professional."

Full article @ https://www.afsp.org/preventing-suicide ... -questions I highly recommend for you to read.(most nations have a similar foundation with the appropriate numbers to call). The most loving thing you can do for "Emi" to to help her help herself.
“The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.”
― Elie Wiesel

YZQ
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by YZQ » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:13 pm

Pretty much what Glass said. Get help. You cannot protect her on your own.
"Nothing is beneath man. Everything is permitted."

"...since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved. However, it is important above all to avoid being hated."

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BMFJack
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by BMFJack » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:23 pm

GlassAlmanac wrote:The most loving thing you can do for "Emi" to to help her help herself.
Best line. Agreed with everything GlassAlmanac said, but that's definitely the best part.

It's definitely impossible to help her on your own, from the sounds of it she is likely to need therapy due to several traumatic experiences, but no one can force her to do anything. All you can do is be there for her, encourage her when she's down, and try to help her/get help to her. However, at the end of the day, it's her decision.

I know it'll probably hurt to hear this, but you do need to be more patient. It sucks, it really does, but if you aren't patient with her she may end up losing the hope she's found with you. I think you aptly named her "Emi" because just like in Emi's route, if you try too hard to be the White Knight it'll split you apart.

YZQ
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by YZQ » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:48 pm

Don't forget Hanako's route as well. Apart from the "alerting others of suicidal attempts", you gotta give her space.
"Nothing is beneath man. Everything is permitted."

"...since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved. However, it is important above all to avoid being hated."

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