Hanako's Broken Heart Club

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LilyKitsune
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by LilyKitsune » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:25 pm

300BillionDegrees wrote:So you make a manly woman? I've seen plenty of cis- women like that. I realize being trans comes with a whole raft of issues, but the above still applies. Do what you can with what you've got, and be confident. At the very least remember that there is a lot more to a person than their looks - something everyone who played KS should pick up on.

Also relevant to everyone thinking about ugly: Meaghan Ramsey's TED talk on people thinking that they're ugly (12m06s)
Unfortunately thats not how im seen. Nobody sees me as a "manly woman" they just see me as a man. Or disgusting. But not me. Not that there's a whole lot to see, but it would feel better. Looks might not be everything, but you have to at least get a foot in the door. I cant.

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YutoTheOrc
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by YutoTheOrc » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:23 pm

LilyKitsune wrote:
300BillionDegrees wrote:So you make a manly woman? I've seen plenty of cis- women like that. I realize being trans comes with a whole raft of issues, but the above still applies. Do what you can with what you've got, and be confident. At the very least remember that there is a lot more to a person than their looks - something everyone who played KS should pick up on.

Also relevant to everyone thinking about ugly: Meaghan Ramsey's TED talk on people thinking that they're ugly (12m06s)
Unfortunately thats not how im seen. Nobody sees me as a "manly woman" they just see me as a man. Or disgusting. But not me. Not that there's a whole lot to see, but it would feel better. Looks might not be everything, but you have to at least get a foot in the door. I cant.
If your looking for "the one", then looks wont matter for shits. The person who will fall in love with you, will be attracted by other things. Your laugh, your charming smile. The reason we fell in love with the Katawa Shoujo cast was not because of their looks, but their mannerisms and personality. We fell for Rin's Odd mind, Emi's bubbly personality, and Lilly's caring instincts. If you wanna get a foot in the door, then keeping putting yourself out there, and you will be seen as a beauty worth pursuing. :D

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Charmant
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Charmant » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:00 pm

YutoTheOrc wrote:
LilyKitsune wrote:
300BillionDegrees wrote:So you make a manly woman? I've seen plenty of cis- women like that. I realize being trans comes with a whole raft of issues, but the above still applies. Do what you can with what you've got, and be confident. At the very least remember that there is a lot more to a person than their looks - something everyone who played KS should pick up on.

Also relevant to everyone thinking about ugly: Meaghan Ramsey's TED talk on people thinking that they're ugly (12m06s)
Unfortunately thats not how im seen. Nobody sees me as a "manly woman" they just see me as a man. Or disgusting. But not me. Not that there's a whole lot to see, but it would feel better. Looks might not be everything, but you have to at least get a foot in the door. I cant.
If your looking for "the one", then looks wont matter for shits. The person who will fall in love with you, will be attracted by other things. Your laugh, your charming smile. The reason we fell in love with the Katawa Shoujo cast was not because of their looks, but their mannerisms and personality. We fell for Rin's odd mind, Emi's bubbly personality, and Lilly's caring instincts. If you wanna get a foot in the door, then keeping putting yourself out there, and you will be seen as a beauty worth pursuing. :D
Wouldn't a "charming smile" technically fall under the "looks" category? And sorry to burst anybody's bubble but there is nobody for whom "looks wont matter for shits". Looks are a part of it whether or not people like to admit that. They're the first thing we see to make an impression of people and however great their laugh or personality is, if you're going to be involved with somebody on a (presumably romantic in this context) 'love' level, you will have to like their looks.

Keeping your spirits up and keeping on trying is definitely a good way to go but don't delude yourself with this "Looks won't matter at all to the right person!" stuff. The right person isn't the one for whom looks don't matter. It's the one who likes the look enough to then move on to liking the rest of it.

Also there is no "the one". That is a vile, damaging and basically ridiculous concept invented for movies and How I Met Your Mother.

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metalangel
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by metalangel » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:05 pm

Charmant wrote:
Also there is no "the one". That is a vile, damaging and basically ridiculous concept invented for movies and How I Met Your Mother.
The first legitimate tidbit to come along in a while.

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Munchenhausen
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Munchenhausen » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:07 pm

Charmant wrote:Also there is no "the one". That is a vile, damaging and basically ridiculous concept invented for movies and How I Met Your Mother.
Right, there is no 'The One'.
There are, however, "The Top Few Ones".

Sure, you can look at your boyfriend/girlfriend now and be completely in love with them, but how many relationships actually last out of all the relationships people encounter in life?
Who's to say the last person you end up with is actually the best of them all?
Who's to say just because someone's your One, you aren't really their One?

Basically, you're right. One can't idolise a single person, because of reasons that I forgot literally as I was typing this out. Fuck.
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YutoTheOrc
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by YutoTheOrc » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:40 pm

Charmant wrote: Also there is no "the one". That is a vile, damaging and basically ridiculous concept invented for movies and How I Met Your Mother.
I'm gonna have to say I disagree with that, it is neither vile nor damaging in anyway. It can provide hope to that individual, and unless that hope is twisted it does not become vile. Hence why, marriages are monogamous and not polygamous(excluding those weird polygamists out there). The term "The One" is not synonymous with "perfect", it merely means some who is right for you. That's how I see it, anyhow. :)
Last edited by YutoTheOrc on Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bhtooefr
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by bhtooefr » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:55 pm

The problem is that thinking someone is "the one" leads, inherently, to some downright dangerous thoughts.

If someone is "the one", that means that they must be gotten with at all costs, which is incredibly destructive to both people involved.
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metalangel
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by metalangel » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:47 pm

Problems with believing in “the one”:
-unrealistically high standards meaning you outright reject people or don’t give them a chance. How do you even know what you like in a relationship or what your ideal is if you don’t have any experience? Hisao and whichever of the girls he nailed with your guidance becoming super lovey dovey for the rest of their lives is almost as big a work of fiction as the game itself.
-hope and entitlement. You don’t have to make yourself a better person (in myriad ways) because the great and lofty “one” will accept you as the out of shape slob you are, right? RIGHT?

“The one” and “whoever is right for you” are not the same thing. The one is a mythical construct, whoever is right for you is just that. If you feel like you’re settling for second best with whoever is right for you, then you’ll never be happy no matter how close to your unattainable ideal you get.

Polygamy or multiple marriage is not ‘weird’, thank you. Even within modern Western society open or non-monogamous relationships of many kinds exist.

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Mahorfeus
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Mahorfeus » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:58 pm

metalangel wrote: “The one” and “whoever is right for you” are not the same thing. The one is a mythical construct, whoever is right for you is just that.
This is just playing with semantics. These aren't terms etched onto stone tablets, so trying to draw a line in the sand between the two is kind of moot. If we want to play more word games, we could just as easily conglomerate the two into "The one(s) who is/are right for you." By their very nature, those words hold a different meaning for everyone.

I think it's bad to condemn those who pursue the person they think might make them happy, or even those that just sit and wait for that person to walk into their life. Just so long as that person feels the same way.
"A very small degree of hope is sufficient to cause the birth of love." -Stendhal
The verdict is (finally) in:
Hanako > Rin > Emi > Lilly = Shizune

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Manako
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Manako » Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:31 pm

But according to you, what Lilykitsune must do in her case ?
metalangel wrote: ...
-hope and entitlement. You don’t have to make yourself a better person (in myriad ways) because the great and lofty “one” will accept you as the out of shape slob you are, right? RIGHT?
..
Good point, but are everyone OK (and so able to attract someone who is at least OK too) if they aren't out of shape slob ? I'm not sure it's always true.

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YutoTheOrc
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by YutoTheOrc » Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:31 pm

metalangel wrote:
Polygamy or multiple marriage is not ‘weird’, thank you. Even within modern Western society open or non-monogamous relationships of many kinds exist.
It's pretty weird, especially considering its out of the norm. Not to mention illegal in most if not all first and second world countries. Marriage is a design proposed by Christianity for a monogamous union of two individuals, not for the polygamous union of multiple. We are no longer warring tribes in Europe, Asia, or wherever you descend from; we no longer have the need for multiple wives or husbands to sire more offspring, for the fact of survival. It's not just in Western Culture, but in China, Korea, and Japan(which are eastern countries).

Note how only third-world countries still practice this. If you would like to debate further, PM. I'd rather our conflicting beliefs not irritate others

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Manako
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Manako » Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:36 pm

What is wrong with relationships others than the "traditionnal christian marriage"; like concubinage for example. ?

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Charmant
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Charmant » Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:44 pm

YutoTheOrc wrote:[quote="Charmant]
Also there is no "the one". That is a vile, damaging and basically ridiculous concept invented for movies and How I Met Your Mother.
I'm gonna have to say I disagree with that, it is neither vile nor damaging in anyway. It can provide hope to that individual, and unless that hope is twisted it does not become vile. Hence why, marriages are monogamous and not polygamous(excluding those weird polygamists out there). The term "The One" is not synonymous with "perfect", it merely means some who is right for you. That's how I see it, anyhow. :)[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Marriages are polygamous (or monogamous with polyamorous aspects, which is essentially the same) in many cultures (many of which are more successful with marriages than we are) so that was just painfully ignorant.

"Oh, don't worry, THE ONE is still out there!" "Oh, it's okay you got dumped, she just wasn't THE ONE!" - This is unhelpful. This makes people expendable. This offers a convenient excuse and little else. This is a meaningless cliche.

"The One" means there is one person for everyone. Only one. That is nothing but damaging for everyone involved. And hope isn't some magical inherent good. At best, it will keep someone in high spirits but at worst, it's a flimsy support stringing along an otherwise miserable person for vague promises of a hypothetical reward. "The One" provides false hope because the truth of it is, there is no "The One" unless you live in the Matrix and in that case, it's Keanu Reeves and nobody wants any of that.

@Yuto: Marriage was not invented by Christianity, sorry.

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metalangel
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by metalangel » Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:21 pm

Mahorfeus wrote:
metalangel wrote: “The one” and “whoever is right for you” are not the same thing. The one is a mythical construct, whoever is right for you is just that.
This is just playing with semantics. These aren't terms etched onto stone tablets, so trying to draw a line in the sand between the two is kind of moot. If we want to play more word games, we could just as easily conglomerate the two into "The one(s) who is/are right for you." By their very nature, those words hold a different meaning for everyone.

I think it's bad to condemn those who pursue the person they think might make them happy, or even those that just sit and wait for that person to walk into their life. Just so long as that person feels the same way.
What I was saying if you took the rest of what I said and in the context of my post, is that you can't hold out for someone perfect, you have to give people who could be a chance. The reason "the one" is the poisonous idea is that people are expecting a Hotel Transylvania-style 'zing' where you instantly know. By all means, look for the people who you think will make you happy! But give them a chance to make you happy rather than just look for flaws that mean they're not "the one".
Manako wrote:Good point, but are everyone OK (and so able to attract someone who is at least OK too) if they aren't out of shape slob ? I'm not sure it's always true.
No, you can be attractive and still have problems. What you do need to do is not expect people to come to you. Get out there and live the best life you can, be someone who is a good person to be with. All the effort I've put into fitness and weight loss over the last year? It makes me feel amazing, and in turn it makes me more attractive and confident as a potential partner.
YutoTheOrc wrote: It's pretty weird, especially considering its out of the norm. Not to mention illegal in most if not all first and second world countries. Marriage is a design proposed by Christianity for a monogamous union of two individuals, not for the polygamous union of multiple. We are no longer warring tribes in Europe, Asia, or wherever you descend from; we no longer have the need for multiple wives or husbands to sire more offspring, for the fact of survival. It's not just in Western Culture, but in China, Korea, and Japan(which are eastern countries).

Note how only third-world countries still practice this. If you would like to debate further, PM. I'd rather our conflicting beliefs not irritate others
There's still the matter that you think marriage is a Christian invention. Saying it's weird invalidates all those who live lifelong committed relationships with multiple partners, or in open relationships or marriages. They love their partners or spouses just as much as anyone else. Your definition of marriage is but one of many, and marriage itself is more than a piece of paper.

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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by bhtooefr » Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:36 pm

Besides, even the Abrahamic marriages had plenty of concubines, which is very much not a form of monogamy.
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