Hanako's Broken Heart Club

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Broomhead
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Broomhead » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:10 am

To continue the trend of quoting: "Scratch any cynic and you'll find a disappointed idealist." -George Carlin

Bullying taught me things that are neither true nor false. Conditional facts that are equivalent to what spunky said. But Forever was saying he took the positive from the situation, he wasn't suggesting everyone was to be bullied.
Lilly = Rin > Hanako > Emi > Misha > Shizune

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Potato
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Potato » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:23 am

brythain wrote:I don't think that's entirely true. I'm an optimist—I hope for the best. I'm also a pragmatist—I prepare for the worst. Since my expectations are weighted in favour of the best but I am prepared cognitively to see that this is not always the likely outcome, I am generally a happy person without being baselessly so. Also, idealism has nothing to do with optimism; you can be an evil idealist; the word 'idea' has its roots in the sense of 'image' (see Greek 'eide' as in 'eidolon') and is actually the opposite of 'realist'. So idealist v realist (in theory), pragmatist v theorist, and optimist v pessimist. None of these are necessarily 'childish' in the derogatory sense. :)
Optimism isn't about hope, it's about expectation. Anyone in their right mind hopes for the best. An optimist expects the best. And in reality, unfortunately, that is a naive expectation.

A pessimist expects the worst, and is as hopeless as the optimist is naive.

A pragmatist, well, his expectations don't matter because he has contingencies in place either way.

I miss George Carlin.
I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by azumeow » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:34 am

Potato wrote:
brythain wrote:I don't think that's entirely true. I'm an optimist—I hope for the best. I'm also a pragmatist—I prepare for the worst. Since my expectations are weighted in favour of the best but I am prepared cognitively to see that this is not always the likely outcome, I am generally a happy person without being baselessly so. Also, idealism has nothing to do with optimism; you can be an evil idealist; the word 'idea' has its roots in the sense of 'image' (see Greek 'eide' as in 'eidolon') and is actually the opposite of 'realist'. So idealist v realist (in theory), pragmatist v theorist, and optimist v pessimist. None of these are necessarily 'childish' in the derogatory sense. :)
Optimism isn't about hope, it's about expectation. Anyone in their right mind hopes for the best. An optimist expects the best. And in reality, unfortunately, that is a naive expectation.

A pessimist expects the worst, and is as hopeless as the optimist is naive.

A pragmatist, well, his expectations don't matter because he has contingencies in place either way.

I miss George Carlin.
Now that this has become a semantics argument (and thus, in my opinion, an endless battle of BS), why don't we discuss things we find calming, if not therapeutic? I think it fits the topic well enough. I like cats. I also like music. I'll probably start group therapy in a month or so when school starts up again.
"I don’t want to be here anymore, I know there’s nothing left worth staying for.
Your paradise is something I’ve endured
See I don’t think I can fight this anymore, I’m listening with one foot out the door
And something has to die to be reborn-I don’t want to be here anymore"

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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by brythain » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:48 am

Potato wrote:Optimism isn't about hope, it's about expectation. Anyone in their right mind hopes for the best. An optimist expects the best. And in reality, unfortunately, that is a naive expectation.

A pessimist expects the worst, and is as hopeless as the optimist is naive.

A pragmatist, well, his expectations don't matter because he has contingencies in place either way.
Optimists don't necessarily expect the best. Their orientation is to consider the best as being possible. You will find that in typical as well as exact usage, the phrase 'naive optimism' is common BECAUSE optimism is not necessarily naive and hence must be qualified as such. If you do look at dictionaries, you'll find 'hope for the best' as a theme that's more common than 'expectation of the best' in most definitions.

However, because negative and positive have complementary biases, pessimism indeed EXPECTS the worst and believes profoundly in its inevitability. This is not true of optimists and the best.

A pragmatist is prepared for action regardless. He may have rational expectations, but if they don't come to pass or begin to look less likely, he looks at what has occurred, what is imminent, or what is now more probable, and takes appropriate action. A pragmatist is grounded in action—that is what the term implies etymologically and in practical (haha) usage.
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
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KeiichiO
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by KeiichiO » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:50 am

Potato wrote:Optimism isn't about hope, it's about expectation. Anyone in their right mind hopes for the best. An optimist expects the best. And in reality, unfortunately, that is a naive expectation.

A pessimist expects the worst, and is as hopeless as the optimist is naive.

A pragmatist, well, his expectations don't matter because he has contingencies in place either way.
I'm just a realist. I don't really expect shit, and I live life like a leaf in the wind.

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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by LilyKitsune » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:08 am

KeiichiO wrote:
Potato wrote:Optimism isn't about hope, it's about expectation. Anyone in their right mind hopes for the best. An optimist expects the best. And in reality, unfortunately, that is a naive expectation.

A pessimist expects the worst, and is as hopeless as the optimist is naive.

A pragmatist, well, his expectations don't matter because he has contingencies in place either way.
I'm just a realist. I don't really expect shit, and I live life like a leaf in the wind.
I dont expect anything either. Unfortunately things just keep getting worse. Any time I'm given a tiny bit of hope, it just gets crushed. I thought things were sorta stable. Bad, but stable. I felt I was making minimal progress. There was something to look forward to. In one motion that was all taken from me. Again. And all anyone close to me can ever tell me is all the wonderful things they think I deserve.

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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by KeiichiO » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:20 am

LilyKitsune wrote:I dont expect anything either. Unfortunately things just keep getting worse. Any time I'm given a tiny bit of hope, it just gets crushed. I thought things were sorta stable. Bad, but stable. I felt I was making minimal progress. There was something to look forward to. In one motion that was all taken from me. Again. And all anyone close to me can ever tell me is all the wonderful things they think I deserve.
You've just gotta keep your chin up. Find something that makes you happy. Whether it be a couple of dudes playing video games on the internet, (my personal daily mood-lifter) of something else, remember that there's always something/someone to live for. Depression will just blur them out of your mind.

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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by SpunkySix » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:26 am

Broomhead wrote:To continue the trend of quoting: "Scratch any cynic and you'll find a disappointed idealist." -George Carlin

Bullying taught me things that are neither true nor false. Conditional facts that are equivalent to what spunky said. But Forever was saying he took the positive from the situation, he wasn't suggesting everyone was to be bullied.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I realize that and it's good for him, but almost nobody can just take the positive from a constant situation like that. I was wide-eyed and outgoing when I first hit middle school because I had no idea that people could be so mean, but that illusion got smashed real quick, and then all of a sudden you start seeing the world for what it is, and it's not pretty most of the time.
"Spunky at his Spunkyest/Spunkiest"
"Tissues to the extreme!"

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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by SpunkySix » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:29 am

KeiichiO wrote:
LilyKitsune wrote:I dont expect anything either. Unfortunately things just keep getting worse. Any time I'm given a tiny bit of hope, it just gets crushed. I thought things were sorta stable. Bad, but stable. I felt I was making minimal progress. There was something to look forward to. In one motion that was all taken from me. Again. And all anyone close to me can ever tell me is all the wonderful things they think I deserve.
You've just gotta keep your chin up. Find something that makes you happy. Whether it be a couple of dudes playing video games on the internet, (my personal daily mood-lifter) of something else, remember that there's always something/someone to live for. Depression will just blur them out of your mind.
This is true. Depression is a tricky bastard and it wants you to forget the people out there that do care, or will if you find them. As much as I wish I could fade away, I'll never do it myself because it would be giving up and I don't quit on things, but also because I have friends and family that keep me grounded. All the crap I deal with makes just relaxing and playing Mario Kart with my best friend feel worth it in the end.
"Spunky at his Spunkyest/Spunkiest"
"Tissues to the extreme!"

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Liminaut
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Liminaut » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:50 am

LilyKitsune wrote:
I dont expect anything either. Unfortunately things just keep getting worse. Any time I'm given a tiny bit of hope, it just gets crushed. I thought things were sorta stable. Bad, but stable. I felt I was making minimal progress. There was something to look forward to. In one motion that was all taken from me. Again. And all anyone close to me can ever tell me is all the wonderful things they think I deserve.
I've known a number of clinically depressed people, and real depression -- the soul-crushing, turn the world to grey type -- is a physical illness just as much as a broken leg. There is a lot of good therapy and treatments for this. Treating depression is an art, but an understood art. I don't know you well enough to make a meaningful suggestion, but you may want to consider it.

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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by SpunkySix » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:56 am

Liminaut wrote:
LilyKitsune wrote:
I dont expect anything either. Unfortunately things just keep getting worse. Any time I'm given a tiny bit of hope, it just gets crushed. I thought things were sorta stable. Bad, but stable. I felt I was making minimal progress. There was something to look forward to. In one motion that was all taken from me. Again. And all anyone close to me can ever tell me is all the wonderful things they think I deserve.
I've known a number of clinically depressed people, and real depression -- the soul-crushing, turn the world to grey type -- is a physical illness just as much as a broken leg. There is a lot of good therapy and treatments for this. Treating depression is an art, but an understood art. I don't know you well enough to make a meaningful suggestion, but you may want to consider it.
Seconded. It really does help, if you let it.
"Spunky at his Spunkyest/Spunkiest"
"Tissues to the extreme!"

LilyKitsune
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by LilyKitsune » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:15 pm

KeiichiO wrote:
LilyKitsune wrote:I dont expect anything either. Unfortunately things just keep getting worse. Any time I'm given a tiny bit of hope, it just gets crushed. I thought things were sorta stable. Bad, but stable. I felt I was making minimal progress. There was something to look forward to. In one motion that was all taken from me. Again. And all anyone close to me can ever tell me is all the wonderful things they think I deserve.
You've just gotta keep your chin up. Find something that makes you happy. Whether it be a couple of dudes playing video games on the internet, (my personal daily mood-lifter) of something else, remember that there's always something/someone to live for. Depression will just blur them out of your mind.
Everything I enjoy is always slightly jaded. I do enjoy games, but I dont really have a place anymore. Rather, I won't for long. This month is the last of it. But I dont really have a lot of friends left nearby. One really. He is often busy. I just generally feel that if I were to disappear tomorrow, it would take weeks to find out. Months even if you dont count work. And the thing I held onto that I hoped would help me move forward is being taken. I just feel like I'm still at the point where everyone sees me as a guy.

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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by KeiichiO » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:30 pm

LilyKitsune wrote:Everything I enjoy is always slightly jaded. I do enjoy games, but I dont really have a place anymore. Rather, I won't for long. This month is the last of it. But I dont really have a lot of friends left nearby. One really. He is often busy. I just generally feel that if I were to disappear tomorrow, it would take weeks to find out. Months even if you dont count work. And the thing I held onto that I hoped would help me move forward is being taken. I just feel like I'm still at the point where everyone sees me as a guy.
What exactly do you mean by, 'I won't for long'? I sincerely hope I'm simply misinterpreting the meaning of your words, and you're not planning on doing something stupid.

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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by SpunkySix » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:18 pm

KeiichiO wrote:
LilyKitsune wrote:Everything I enjoy is always slightly jaded. I do enjoy games, but I dont really have a place anymore. Rather, I won't for long. This month is the last of it. But I dont really have a lot of friends left nearby. One really. He is often busy. I just generally feel that if I were to disappear tomorrow, it would take weeks to find out. Months even if you dont count work. And the thing I held onto that I hoped would help me move forward is being taken. I just feel like I'm still at the point where everyone sees me as a guy.
What exactly do you mean by, 'I won't for long'? I sincerely hope I'm simply misinterpreting the meaning of your words, and you're not planning on doing something stupid.
This. Please, I know life is the shittiest thing sometimes, but really think about what you're doing, because it will never get better if you don't, and that is a certainty.
"Spunky at his Spunkyest/Spunkiest"
"Tissues to the extreme!"

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Liminaut
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Liminaut » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:46 am

LilyKitsune wrote:
KeiichiO wrote:
LilyKitsune wrote:I dont expect anything either. Unfortunately things just keep getting worse. Any time I'm given a tiny bit of hope, it just gets crushed. I thought things were sorta stable. Bad, but stable. I felt I was making minimal progress. There was something to look forward to. In one motion that was all taken from me. Again. And all anyone close to me can ever tell me is all the wonderful things they think I deserve.
You've just gotta keep your chin up. Find something that makes you happy. Whether it be a couple of dudes playing video games on the internet, (my personal daily mood-lifter) of something else, remember that there's always something/someone to live for. Depression will just blur them out of your mind.
Everything I enjoy is always slightly jaded. I do enjoy games, but I dont really have a place anymore. Rather, I won't for long. This month is the last of it. But I dont really have a lot of friends left nearby. One really. He is often busy. I just generally feel that if I were to disappear tomorrow, it would take weeks to find out. Months even if you dont count work. And the thing I held onto that I hoped would help me move forward is being taken. I just feel like I'm still at the point where everyone sees me as a guy.
What I am hearing in your writing is sounding a lot like clinical depression to me. I strongly suggest you get treatment and therapy. I know a lot of people that have lives today because of therapy.

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