Hanako's Broken Heart Club

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LilyKitsune
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by LilyKitsune » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:20 pm

azumeow wrote: I know these words will come off as hollow from behind a computer. But I feel the need to say them nonetheless: you are not unwanted. You may feel this way. The people around you may treat you this way, but you are not. I felt this way about myself for a long time. I never identified as trans, but I suffered from gender identity issues for a while. I considered severe self-mutilation to "fix" the "problem." I was able to reconcile my gender identity without being transgender, but I know many people do not have the luxury of doing so. I have had transgender friends, and their words ring true and they echo what you are saying. I had one try to kill herself because she was so depressed.

As for the antidepressants, I understand how you're feeling. I lost a few friends from dropping that bomb. Wasn't pretty, wasn't fun. But in the end, it was well worth it. The anti-depressants that I take are the only reason I can even get up in the morning at this point, and even that's not always a thing that happens. If they don't help within 6-8 weeks (it's a long time, but that's how long it can end up taking) don't get discouraged. It can take a long time to even find one that works for you, and that's only if you're super unlucky. I got lucky and my first prescription did wonders.

As for the suicidal thoughts, I know a few words and a comforting little essay won't stop that. But you should be aware that there are crisis hotlines available 24/7 if you need them, both by phone and by computer. I was chatting with a "hope coach" from 4-5 AM after I had a fight with my ex and I started feeling suicidal. It helped a LOT. And if you can open up to them, they're very helpful. They don't judge (at least they never have for me) and they try to offer advice, but at the same time are also willing to just let you vent. Just remember: suicide just means that the last thoughts you have will be terrible. Not doing it at least gives you a shot at life getting better. It takes hard, hard work to crawl back to the surface after you've fallen far enough, believe me. It's been five years and I'm still only a few feet from the point of no return. But I'm climbing. Sometimes you just have to put on foot in front of the other, even if it hurts and you can't see relief. I've had to do that literally and figuratively, and each time it only helped. Yes, it was painful, but the relief I got when I reached my destination was beyond worth it.
I am, though. Physically. I've just consistently been reminded of this. Over and over. The only people dont reject me for those reasons are the types who arent actually attracted to me, but to the hope that I'd be able to fix them entirely. I know I'm hard on myself and really feel I'm unwanted, but I keep moving forward however I can. While I'm not in the best position, I do have my own place and a crappy job I keep working. Its a problem I'll address after I finish transition, but I have not given up on everything. And yet I keep running into those who have. They convince themselves that if they had someone, they'd be able to do everything instantly. They want someone to rescue them, and dump their entire life onto like a responsibility. It's all kinds of wrong. But these are the only people that dont run screaming. And it hurts and feels horribly guilty to say no to someone that claims to want me then proceeds to say theyre upper 20s, never had a job, no hobbies, have no passion for anything, say they'll like whatever I like, and feel that being told to love someone and making them your only purpose for living is the same as loving them. So when I say I'm unwanted, I mean that this is the only kind of person that wants me how I am now. The rest want some alternative version of me that is more attractive or is, as they've often put it, a "real girl" like what I am isn't even human. I'm just part. A quality part, as they were often drawn in by that, but missing what I would need to be wanted. Something I cant fix.
SpunkySix wrote:
I take a sort of antidepressant, and I can say that personally, it doesn't fix everything, but it does help. The chances of it going wrong are super small and they basically only say that it's possible for legal reasons. If you don't mind saying, what kind are you using?
I'm not sure, I havent started yet.

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Potato
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Potato » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:06 pm

LilyKitsune wrote:Im starting an antidepressant soon. Im a little excited, but mostly terrified. I really do hate this voice that constantly convinces me how repulsive I am, and how nobody will ever want me and ill die alone never knowing the feeling of even a real hug. I'm kinda tall, and unattractive, but the big problem is that I am trans. All of these combined have been the source of endless rejection for a person who was already unwanted. I'm afraid the pills won't turn that voice down, or it will turn the wrong voice down, the one that makes me afraid to end it all. I worry that maybe they'll do nothing, but going off them will be worse. it just hurts so much to be alone for something I cant do anything about. Something I cant control. Something that will never change. And I cant take it.
In my experience, antidepressants will generally turn down all the voices. The self-loathing ones, the fearful ones, the happy ones...Apathy's worse than depression. But if they help, good for you.
I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

LilyKitsune
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by LilyKitsune » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:35 pm

Potato wrote:
LilyKitsune wrote:Im starting an antidepressant soon. Im a little excited, but mostly terrified. I really do hate this voice that constantly convinces me how repulsive I am, and how nobody will ever want me and ill die alone never knowing the feeling of even a real hug. I'm kinda tall, and unattractive, but the big problem is that I am trans. All of these combined have been the source of endless rejection for a person who was already unwanted. I'm afraid the pills won't turn that voice down, or it will turn the wrong voice down, the one that makes me afraid to end it all. I worry that maybe they'll do nothing, but going off them will be worse. it just hurts so much to be alone for something I cant do anything about. Something I cant control. Something that will never change. And I cant take it.
In my experience, antidepressants will generally turn down all the voices. The self-loathing ones, the fearful ones, the happy ones...Apathy's worse than depression. But if they help, good for you.
Well I don't really have happy ones right now. Just sad ones, or almost a... taunting hope. The kind where I'll daydream, drift off to a wonderful alternate universe where I'm happy, attractive, and have a wonderful man with me, who is attracted to me, looking at me with love, touching, holding, kissing, and then instantly I'm back in my room, alone, with the overwhelming feeling of "I'll never have that, and there's nothing I can do"

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Potato
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Potato » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:45 pm

So I got this exasperatingly convoluted and agitating history with this ex of mine that I can't be bothered to lay out in detail right now (maybe when I'm feeling better) but I've been horribly sick since Monday and she bought me some chicken noodle soup.

She lives, currently, roughly twenty hours away. And she bought me chicken noodle soup for my sickness.

Upon regaining her senses and remembering "Hey wait, he can't get this, he's really far away"...

...She put the soup in the mail. With a get well card.

So now I'm just in a state of wondering "Wait, why is she an ex again?" :lol: Nobody's been that ridiculously, over-accommodatingly good to me since Mister Rogers when I used to visit his neighborhood as a kid.
I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

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ginywiny
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by ginywiny » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:26 pm

I've come to the conclusion that in reality, you can meet somebody even more amazing than any character in game. The reason for any sense of loss and sadness, probably from "awesomeness withdrawal", is because Hisao (you) spend your time seriously with your fictional girlfriend. You go read a book, you go shopping, you go get tea, you take a walk, you make a picnic... you have sex, ARE ALL PART OF REALITY!

The reason you feel broken hearted, is mainly due to the fact that you haven't had a similar relationship in your life. Or even had a relationship (which could be an instant reason for any sadness)
Although, now that you have an idea, a REALISTIC idea of dating, you can implement the KS story to your everyday life. There is surely somebody out there with a quality, or qualities similar to one or multiple characters from KS. Imagine that, All in one!

With this being said, you also have sex in the game. Sex gives an emotion of belonging... of love. Thus, if you like a person, even in the slightest, and have sex with them, you will develop so many more feelings that you wouldn't of felt before.

For example, I found Emi and Lilly to be cool, but once Hisao managed to kiss them, and make love, I felt it. I felt the emotion.
That doesn't mean you cannot have that same emotion with somebody you meet at school, on the road, at the coffee shop, etc.
All that matters is that you find something in common, and maybe even relate your girlfriend to a girl from KS.
That will help. Trust me. It works for me.

Katawa Shoujo is simply a small, tiny, miniscule, demonstration of how some girls are: Bossy, quiet, polite, confusing, silly, etc.
It's just a game. An adorable one though. :)

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Potato
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Potato » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:55 pm

ginywiny wrote:Sex gives an emotion of belonging... of love.
To some people.
I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

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ginywiny
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by ginywiny » Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:07 pm

Potato wrote:
ginywiny wrote:Sex gives an emotion of belonging... of love.
To some people.

I'm talking about looking at eachother under the same cover. Forehead on forehead.
Let me fix what I meant.

To make love. Which is proper sex.

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Potato
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Potato » Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:13 pm

ginywiny wrote:To make love. Which is proper sex.
To types who believe that their personal views, even when factually contradicted by reality, constitute the only proper ways of the world.

About the whole "reality" thing, proper sex would by the most logical definition be sex which has potential to reproduce as reproduction is the entire purpose of sexual functionality. Any fucked up rough kinky emotionally-devoid thing you could possibly imagine, so long as Rod A enters Slot A at some point during, would be proper by that account. Thus, what is "proper" could very well extend to: Doggy style, crazy bondage sex, orgies, nailing a chick against a wall while dressed as the Burger King in a Mcdonald's bathroom...It's also entirely possible to screw under the same cover and not have it be a love thing. It is possible, to put it bluntly, to have sex anyone anywhere in any way and involve no emotional aspect whatsoever in the entire process...And it would still be proper, provided his pole goes in her pink at some point during the proceedings.

All of which is to say, the whole "You need to be facing each other and full of love or it's not proper!" bit you just pulled is not only rather pompous for basically slandering others as improper little heathens if they don't do it how you prefer but also just a fundamentally flawed position because what would actually constitute "proper sex", based on the natural purpose of the act, does not actually require love or even face-to-face engagement at any point.

...Actually, how much of the sex in KS itself is "forehead on forehead"? Hanako, and maybe Emi's last scene. Rin didn't do it that way at all. Lilly didn't do it that way most of the time, if at all. Shizune never does it that way.

And seeing as actual people wrote those scenes, I can't imagine what sort of implications that could have for the writers' intended message through the lens of your worldview there. "Disabled people are improper"? Seems sick to me.

The rest of that conclusion is quite nice. But that particular bit is wrong. Clarifying it as "making love" rather than just any sex made it right...Until the..."Fix"...Of "This specific kind of sex is the only proper kind!" took it from right and straight back past wrong to actually kind of a really narrow and awful mindset. But the rest is quite nice. Kudos. :D

TL;DR:

"Sex gives an emotion of belonging... of love. Thus, if you like a person, even in the slightest, and have sex with them, you will develop so many more feelings that you wouldn't have felt before." is incorrect.

"Making love gives an emotion of belonging... of love. Thus, if you like a person, even in the slightest, and make love with them, you will develop so many more feelings that you wouldn't have felt before." is correct.

"Making love is proper sex." is contradicted by the very nature of sex, a woefully narrow-minded viewpoint, and actually leads to some really awful implications when considered within the context of the events portrayed in Katawa Shoujo (because, let's be honest here, a lot of those scenes are not 'making love'. ), the message of the writers behind those events, and beyond to the real world in general.
I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

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ginywiny
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by ginywiny » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:26 pm

Post
I never said that you needed to face eachother under the same cover, or to have one forehead on another. I am simply making a reference of how love develops during sex. I am not referencing to KS, as I know none of this happened. But, if I were to make a connection, Hisao cuddles with his girlfriend, and comforts her, which is the goal of looking and eachother and having one forehead on another.

Nevertheless, yes sex is for... babies. But since time goes on, priorities become different, and sex has become more than simply an act of reproduction, but an act of "commitment and love." You definitely can have sex without showing emotion, but when the sex you're having comes after a kiss, or a declaration of emotional attraction, you see not an act of reproduction, or the feel-good sex, but a moment of peace, together.. legs intertwined, hands grabbing one another, stroking hair, in other words...comfort.

In conclusion, I do see how you look at this in a very direct manner, but unfortunately... Love has no straight path. There is no proper way to look at it. It is but a taste that varies from everybody.

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Potato
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Potato » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:07 pm

ginywiny wrote:But since time goes on, priorities become different, and sex has become more than simply an act of reproduction, but an act of "commitment and love."
And by that same token, it's also more than simply an act of commitment and love which is where your whole "Making love is proper sex." thing becomes a problem. You say it's become more than simply an act of reproduction but then your aforementioned sentiment just strangleholds it into a different narrow function. You see where it gets a bit iffy there. Eh. Potayto, Burrito.

But yeah, basically. Love is a broken slinky. (Why has nobody ever paraphrased it that way before?)

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I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

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ginywiny
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by ginywiny » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:15 pm

Set all that aside, all I'm saying is that, to me, it feels as if Hisao got closer to most of them because of sex.
PERIOD. Personal opinion.

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Oddball
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Oddball » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:28 pm

ginywiny wrote:Set all that aside, all I'm saying is that, to me, it feels as if Hisao got closer to most of them because of sex.
PERIOD. Personal opinion.
:shock:

Really? Really? You're going to have to explain this one to me, because I don't know where the hell you're coming from with this.

Although please, start a new topic on the matter, as I don't want to derail this one any more than we have to.
Not Dead Yet

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ginywiny
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by ginywiny » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:44 pm

I'm not saying he wasn't close, because he sure was. I'm just saying that for Hisao, making love was a big step, and brought him much further than he initially was.

azumeow
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by azumeow » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:34 am

I feel like I made a terrible mistake breaking up with one of my exes. There are three exes involved in this clusterfuck of misery and joy. L, R, and A. I won't give names on the minimal chance that anybody may have some clue as to whom I'm talking about. L and I dated from November 2011 to June 2012, then we were on-and-off until March 2014. Most of this time was spent off, but we tried multiple times, so for simplicity's sake, I'm just going to say we were USUALLY off. R and I dated from September 2013 to January 2014. A and I dated from April to the end of June 2014.

This all starts from when L contacted me around Christmas 2013. L is the same ex from before, the one who told my old school about my sexual issues. She's not a good person. In the least. But...I still, probably, love her. I know I did when she contacted me and I dropped everything for her. And by that, I mean that L was the reason I broke up with R. Oh, it was probably gonna happen at some point. At this point, R was kinda boring. All she talked about was banging on the drums and smoking pot. She's gotten a lot better about that kinda thing since then, which makes me think I should've stuck it out instead of running off to my abusive ex L.

Well, after L revealed she'd gone back to the guy she left me for in the past (big shock, I got my just desserts!) I freaked out and gave up on that. Haven't spoken to her in about four and a half months now. A and I got close around then. Started as FwB, I developed more feelings for her. I'm not sure what they were. Not love. I know that now. We became an official couple, that devolved. Fast. Between my bitterness, her sexual obsession with my roommate (with whom she cheated on me with)* and our differences as people in general, we fell apart. It wasn't pretty, and we're still picking up the pieces.

Today, I hung out with R. I missed her. Last time we saw each other was about two months ago, when A and I were together. And even then, we didn't get a moment alone. Today, we just hung out in her basement, watching movies and cuddling. And I, once again, got smacked in the face with the fact that I never actually had any real issues with this girl- she's funny, she's cute, she's loving, she's fun to be around. She understands my pain, and she can actually make those thoughts go away (something only L and A were also able to achieve-hence their prevalence in my mind). We enjoyed each other's presence profusely. Maybe it was the distance-she's over an hour away and I didn't get to see her more than 2-3 times a month.

But I ended it with her. Maybe I'm fooling myself into thinking it could work, that it could have worked. She's going to Florida for college, and I don't think I can do a Long-distance relationship. But I miss her. I really do. We talked about it today, but we both realize that it probably can't work.

*My roommate and I have solved the issue between us, and now we just laugh it off- while sometimes I still get a bit sore at him, I don't hold what happened against him-he was genuinely unaware of the situation and took advantage of a free sex call.
"I don’t want to be here anymore, I know there’s nothing left worth staying for.
Your paradise is something I’ve endured
See I don’t think I can fight this anymore, I’m listening with one foot out the door
And something has to die to be reborn-I don’t want to be here anymore"

LilyKitsune
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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by LilyKitsune » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:54 am

ginywiny wrote:
The reason you feel broken hearted, is mainly due to the fact that you haven't had a similar relationship in your life. Or even had a relationship (which could be an instant reason for any sadness
No, it's because I have been slowly coming to realize I will never be wanted by anyone. I dealt with never having that. It wasnt bad. I stilp had hope. But as I get rejected by guy after guy, told I'm physically "not what they are looking for or expected" I can only conclude that I am not what anyone wants, or at least that the number is so small, I'll never find one by the time it is too late.

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