Hanako's Broken Heart Club

A forum for general discussion of the game: Open to all punters
User avatar
Potato
Posts: 1906
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:49 pm

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Potato » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:16 am

Yeah, I can see how a guy who hooked up with your ex before she was your ex and is also a manipulative prick by your own admission is totally loyal and decent...Except the exact opposite...

If I may make an analogy, Osama Bin Laden isn't quite as awful as Hitler but he was still awful. Being not as awful by comparison didn't make him decent.

But...Whatever works for ya. :lol:
I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

azumeow
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:04 am

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by azumeow » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:20 am

Potato wrote:Yeah, I can see how a guy who hooked up with your ex before she was your ex and also a manipulative prick by your own admission is totally loyal and decent...Except the exact opposite...

If I may make an analogy, Osama Bin Laden isn't quite as awful as Hitler but he was still awful. Being not as awful as some other guy didn't make him decent.

But...Whatever works for ya. :lol:
Yeah, I'm just gonna have to ask you to stop trash-talking my friend. I may not have made him out to be a saint, but he's not a terrible person. And frankly, that reference to Bin Laden is just a little tasteless.
"I don’t want to be here anymore, I know there’s nothing left worth staying for.
Your paradise is something I’ve endured
See I don’t think I can fight this anymore, I’m listening with one foot out the door
And something has to die to be reborn-I don’t want to be here anymore"

User avatar
Potato
Posts: 1906
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:49 pm

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Potato » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:44 am

I'm gonna have to ask that you not use the term "trash-talking" without knowing the meaning of said term. I didn't trash-talk anybody. I simply judged somebody based on the actions and traits you yourself attributed to that person. And unfortunately, judgement isn't something that can just be stopped by flip of a switch, though I will certainly stop voicing said judgement if it troubles you. Though, if such things do trouble you, it may be advisable not to put such things up for judgement in the first place...

azumeow wrote:And frankly, that reference to Bin Laden is just a little tasteless.
But the reference to Hitler was alright? How's that work? Honest question. That's a bizarre placement of the taste line, all things considered... :?
I love the interpretation of Pac-Man where he's a just a lowly worker retrieving golf balls left all over the course by the rich masters and the ghosts are all previous workers who got conked on the head and killed by incoming golf balls in the line of duty.

azumeow
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:04 am

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by azumeow » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:59 am

Potato wrote:I'm gonna have to ask that you not use the term "trash-talking" without knowing the meaning of said term. I didn't trash-talk anybody. I simply judged somebody based on the actions and traits you yourself attributed to that person. And unfortunately, judgement isn't something that can just be stopped by flip of a switch, though I will certainly stop voicing said judgement if it troubles you. Though, if such things do trouble you, it may be advisable not to put such things up for judgement in the first place...

azumeow wrote:And frankly, that reference to Bin Laden is just a little tasteless.
But the reference to Hitler was alright? How's that work? Honest question. That's a bizarre placement of the taste line, all things considered... :?
The point of my post wasn't about my roommate. It was about my slowly growing disdain for other people for multiple reasons, including their absolute hypocrisy and morally patting themselves on the back for insulting a guy who isn't even there and ganging up on his roommate for daring to defend his actions in a better context.

As for the Hitler/Bin Laden thing, just don't. I was referring to the whole reference, not JUST Bin Laden. If it wasn't clear, I'm sorry, but you completely missed the point of what I was saying.
"I don’t want to be here anymore, I know there’s nothing left worth staying for.
Your paradise is something I’ve endured
See I don’t think I can fight this anymore, I’m listening with one foot out the door
And something has to die to be reborn-I don’t want to be here anymore"

LilyKitsune
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:42 pm

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by LilyKitsune » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:01 am

azumeow wrote: And frankly, that reference to Bin Laden is just a little tasteless.
I think it was just using a common point of reference and the reference was just to demonstrate difference in badness.

User avatar
Zarys
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:27 am

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Zarys » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:57 am

azumeow wrote:
Potato wrote:I'm gonna have to ask that you not use the term "trash-talking" without knowing the meaning of said term. I didn't trash-talk anybody. I simply judged somebody based on the actions and traits you yourself attributed to that person. And unfortunately, judgement isn't something that can just be stopped by flip of a switch, though I will certainly stop voicing said judgement if it troubles you. Though, if such things do trouble you, it may be advisable not to put such things up for judgement in the first place...

azumeow wrote:And frankly, that reference to Bin Laden is just a little tasteless.
But the reference to Hitler was alright? How's that work? Honest question. That's a bizarre placement of the taste line, all things considered... :?
The point of my post wasn't about my roommate. It was about my slowly growing disdain for other people for multiple reasons, including their absolute hypocrisy and morally patting themselves on the back for insulting a guy who isn't even there and ganging up on his roommate for daring to defend his actions in a better context.

As for the Hitler/Bin Laden thing, just don't. I was referring to the whole reference, not JUST Bin Laden. If it wasn't clear, I'm sorry, but you completely missed the point of what I was saying.
Well, so anyone who does not agree with you are hypocrites ?
I don't know the context, you may have reason (circumstances can change a lot of things) when you say that he is still a good guy, but I don't see why other people don't have the right to think otherwise. (especially if he really had grievances against them)
But if they talk about him without knowing him, it's a bit annoying and intrusive, I agree.
But you know, the disagreement does not mean that people hate you or something, do you really think that you are better than them if you deny their right to have an true opinion and say they are all hypocrites ? you complain that people don't treat you as an equal, but you seem to do the same thing.
Certainly they think "he's an asshole and his friend is too weak to blame him", but you prove that they are right by simplifying like them what other people think.
I know a lot of "rejected" who says things like that, but in fact they stigmatize and dehumanize normal people (with thoughts like "normal people are boring, without free will, ect ..") as much as "normal" people do to them; and finally they are half responsible for their isolation, but I understand them because I know that isolation makes it difficult to understand what others really think and really feel, if you're rejected too long, you become a little solipsistic to survive, and even when they are making efforts, people are still sometimes cruel with them but you think they do this because they are totally assholes ? no one is all white or all black; Hanako is a good example: yes people are sometimes cruel to her, she is far from be responsible, but she had abandoned for a long time to get better, and even if she see people who act badly with her, there is also clumsy but well-meaning people she rejected, and most people avoid her no because they don't like her, but because they do not know what to deal with her, exactly how herself can't handle with most people; but it makes the situation difficult because even when she made ​​an effort, most people do not realize it. (When she makes a group work with Hisao, Shizune and Misha, it's already very well for her, but Misha and Shizune exaggerate and paying too much attention to her awkwardness; causing her anxiety attack; but how Shizune and Misha were supposed to understand this ?)
She remains primarily a victim, but she is perfect with her misanthropy ? are people so faulty for failing to understand her ? people who think the opposite misunderstood her, like the game claims she should be treated as a human being but don't say that she has no problems and don't need help. (Hisao's fault in the bad end and the neutral is to go too far, and don't treat her primarily as a person he likes.)
And if you're angry by what I said, don't pretend to want to be treated as an equal.

PS : But I find it odd that your roommate is apparently found guilty but not your ex...why he is more criticized than her ? she consented after all, sleep with the girlfriend of one of your friend is a bad choice, but sleeping with the friend of your boyfriend is also a bad choice.
Last edited by Zarys on Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:12 am, edited 5 times in total.
"With my eternal life, I will see the world through to its end. Until everyone who won't like me is gone."
— Porky Minch

"Can you face your fears ?"
— Hanako

I speak from the noise
Souls and shapes, forever twisted
the lost voices of the damned
lure the bringer of despair

User avatar
LordMarluxia
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:40 am
Location: My body in Southwestern Europe, my mind in Wonderland.
Contact:

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by LordMarluxia » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:45 am

Does anyone here still have a broken heart? This is Hanako's Broken Heart Club after all...
Reading: Kafka on the Shore - Haruki Murakami; Fractured - Karin Slaughter
Playing: Sniper Ghost Warrior 2; Far Cry 3; Dragon's Crown

Cat: "Where are you going?" Alice: "Which way should I go?"
Cat: "That depends on where you are going." Alice: "I don’t know."
Cat: "Then it doesn’t matter which way you go."

User avatar
metalangel
Posts: 842
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by metalangel » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:12 am

LordMarluxia wrote:Does anyone here still have a broken heart? This is Hanako's Broken Heart Club after all...
I don't have a broken heart (that's not the point of the thread) but I do have a miserable, shitty, depressing life and wish I was dead. Is that good enough for you?
Last edited by metalangel on Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
CoffeeDrive
Posts: 617
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 4:01 pm

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by CoffeeDrive » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:18 am

LordMarluxia wrote:Does anyone here still have a broken heart? This is Hanako's Broken Heart Club after all...
I'm one of the lucky few who didn't have heartbreak from ks. Especially not from Hanako anyway.
== Cyclaptop [~Cyclamate@86.90.200.214] has quit [Client Quit]
<MishaBot> Aww... I miss Cyclaptop... :(
<Retrograde> Shut up Misha, you whore
<Retrograde> You say that about everyone

Yuudachi Kai Ni Is superior ShipGirl

azumeow
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:04 am

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by azumeow » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:26 am

LordMarluxia wrote:Does anyone here still have a broken heart? This is Hanako's Broken Heart Club after all...
Does a half-beating heart made of iron and stitched-up flesh count?
Zarys wrote: Well, so anyone who does not agree with you are hypocrites ?
I don't know the context, you may have reason (circumstances can change a lot of things) when you say that he is still a good guy, but I don't see why other people don't have the right to think otherwise. (especially if he really had grievances against them)
No, they're not hypocrites because they disagree with me. They're hypocrites because they pretend the guy's a scumbag while talking down to him behind his back, to his roommate, and when I personally know at least one of them is lying through their teeth about it. Some of them don't know the guy, and they can only judge based on the biased stories people who don't like him tell. And when it's a few people attacking against one person defending, we all know who's gonna believe who. I can barely mention the guy without everybody acting as if he's a sociopath.
Zarys wrote:But if they talk about him without knowing him, it's a bit annoying and intrusive, I agree.
But you know, the disagreement does not mean that people hate you or something, do you really think that you are better than them if you deny their right to have an true opinion and say they are all hypocrites ? you complain that people don't treat you as an equal, but you seem to do the same thing.
I've dealt with too many people to put up with BS like this. I know where their treatment of him leads, and they're already treading the borders of making me choose between being their friend or his. They think he's an asshole because he lives the life he wants to, but he doesn't think the same of them. They judge him for things they do themselves, and act like they're better than him when at best, they're barely any different. That's why they're hypocrites.
Zarys wrote: Certainly they think "he's an asshole and his friend is too weak to blame him", but you prove that they are right by simplifying like them what other people think.
I know a lot of "rejected" who says things like that, but in fact they stigmatize and dehumanize normal people (with thoughts like "normal people are boring, without free will, ect ..") as much as "normal" people do to them; and finally they are half responsible for their isolation, but I understand them because I know that isolation makes it difficult to understand what others really think and really feel, if you're rejected too long, you become a little solipsistic to survive, and even when they are making efforts, people are still sometimes cruel with them but you think they do this because they are totally assholes?
Not because they're assholes, but because they simply don't care enough to let people live their own lives without commenting. I disagree with them on a lot of things, but I have the common decency not to act as though they're wretches because I disagree with their ideas or their lifestyles.
As for "rejected" people being responsible for their isolation: yes. This is true. Hence why I went to this party, despite the fact that my ex and people I knew didn't really like my roommate would be there. I'm trying to not be an isolated, bitter ass. It's not the easiest thing in the world when every step is met with resistance.
Zarys wrote:no one is all white or all black; Hanako is a good example: yes people are sometimes cruel to her, she is far from be responsible, but she had abandoned for a long time to get better, and even if she see people who act badly with her, there is also clumsy but well-meaning people she rejected, and most people avoid her no because they don't like her, but because they do not know what to deal with her, exactly how herself can't handle with most people; but it makes the situation difficult because even when she made ​​an effort, most people do not realize it. (When she makes a group work with Hisao, Shizune and Misha, it's already very well for her, but Misha and Shizune exaggerate and paying too much attention to her awkwardness; causing her anxiety attack; but how Shizune and Misha were supposed to understand this ?)
There are plenty of very visual warning signs to a panic attack about to happen. Misha obviously wouldn't notice them because she has the social grace of a jackhammer, but Shizune should be more attentive, especially since she knows about Hanako's behavior, her disappearances and her general social awkwardness. I've been in Hanako's situation multiple times before, and it's almost always the same thing: people being rude without realizing it because they think they know everybody and they think they can be buddy-buddy with everybody around them. I've had people shove me against a wall then be confused when I freak out, I've been held in a choke hold from behind "just to see what would happen" and continuously touched despite desperately physically distancing myself from the person touching me. Things that "normal" people tolerate because they don't want to be seen as confrontational are, in reality, others pushing people's boundaries out of either ignorance, malice, or a simple lack of caring about the consequences of their actions.
Zarys wrote:She remains primarily a victim, but she is perfect with her misanthropy ? are people so faulty for failing to understand her ? people who think the opposite misunderstood her, like the game claims she should be treated as a human being but don't say that she has no problems and don't need help. (Hisao's fault in the bad end and the neutral is to go too far, and don't treat her primarily as a person he likes.)
And if you're angry by what I said, don't pretend to want to be treated as an equal.
No, Hanako's not perfect in her misanthropy. Of course she isn't. I don't know where this tangent came from, but I'll answer it nonetheless. Yes, Hanako has problems. Yes, she may need help. What she doesn't need is people patronizing her and pretending that she's a fragile child. It's rude, to use your own words, it's dehumanizing, and it's aggravating when everybody treats you the same way. As for the last part about me pretending to want to be treated as an equal, what? That seems to have just come completely out of the blue.
Zarys wrote:PS : But I find it odd that your roommate is apparently found guilty but not your ex...why he is more criticized than her ? she consented after all, sleep with the girlfriend of one of your friend is a bad choice, but sleeping with the friend of your boyfriend is also a bad choice.
They don't even know about this. I don't tell anybody because I know it will destroy any kindnesses they have for my ex. As much as she deserves it, I'm trying not to be a bitter asshole filled with hatred. And, I'll simplify it as to why I don't hate him for it: She lied to him and tricked him into thinking that it was okay. When he found out, he was infuriated just as I was and barely spoke a word to her. We resolved it between ourselves.
"I don’t want to be here anymore, I know there’s nothing left worth staying for.
Your paradise is something I’ve endured
See I don’t think I can fight this anymore, I’m listening with one foot out the door
And something has to die to be reborn-I don’t want to be here anymore"

User avatar
Forever_ambivalent
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 4:41 pm

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Forever_ambivalent » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:46 am

Potato wrote:I'm gonna have to ask that you not use the term "trash-talking" without knowing the meaning of said term. I didn't trash-talk anybody. I simply judged somebody based on the actions and traits you yourself attributed to that person. And unfortunately, judgement isn't something that can just be stopped by flip of a switch, though I will certainly stop voicing said judgement if it troubles you. Though, if such things do trouble you, it may be advisable not to put such things up for judgement in the first place...
How about you stop overly judging somebody you know almost entirely nothing about based on a few things that azumeow has said? If you want to go have an argument because you are angry at something go rage at the wall or something. Don't rage at some guy's friend that you don't even know lol.
Otherwise stop being silly and judging (as you like to call it) people without even knowing them. That's terrible judgment and most people consider it trash talking when you judge people in such a rude and one sided way.

Also you seem to be under the illusion that judging people based on what others have told you is fine. It's not in any way. And just because a certain person has some bad qualities (yes people have bad qualities including you and your neighbor and your best mate and every other person in the world) that you do not like does not make him an unlikable person. It helps if you acknowledge your bad qualities but well...

Azumeow don't worry. Defending people who are being slandered and insulted behind their back isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't know why you have to defend your friend here as well but... Looks like he has some strange charisma :lol:

User avatar
LordMarluxia
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:40 am
Location: My body in Southwestern Europe, my mind in Wonderland.
Contact:

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by LordMarluxia » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:54 am

metalangel wrote:
LordMarluxia wrote:Does anyone here still have a broken heart? This is Hanako's Broken Heart Club after all...
I don't have a broken heart (that's not the point of the thread) but I do have a miserable, shitty, depressing life and wish I was dead. Is that good enough for you?
Whoa!, sorry mate. It was a joke, sorry if it's a really bad one. I didn't mean to offend...
This thread is for people to talk about the shit going on on our lifes, right? ...right?
Reading: Kafka on the Shore - Haruki Murakami; Fractured - Karin Slaughter
Playing: Sniper Ghost Warrior 2; Far Cry 3; Dragon's Crown

Cat: "Where are you going?" Alice: "Which way should I go?"
Cat: "That depends on where you are going." Alice: "I don’t know."
Cat: "Then it doesn’t matter which way you go."

User avatar
metalangel
Posts: 842
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by metalangel » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:14 pm

I'm not offended.

Yes, that's what it's for: a place to vent.

User avatar
Zarys
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:27 am

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by Zarys » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:17 pm

metalangel wrote:
LordMarluxia wrote:Does anyone here still have a broken heart? This is Hanako's Broken Heart Club after all...
I don't have a broken heart (that's not the point of the thread) but I do have a miserable, shitty, depressing life and wish I was dead. Is that good enough for you?
It would be sad if anyone really like that reads your message and identified with.
"With my eternal life, I will see the world through to its end. Until everyone who won't like me is gone."
— Porky Minch

"Can you face your fears ?"
— Hanako

I speak from the noise
Souls and shapes, forever twisted
the lost voices of the damned
lure the bringer of despair

User avatar
metalangel
Posts: 842
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Post by metalangel » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:37 pm

Zarys wrote:
It would be sad if anyone really like that reads your message and identified with.
What do you mean?

Post Reply