Valid points that I do not understand

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NoOne3
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Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by NoOne3 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:38 am

It looks like someone walking into a trucker's diner, complaining to the bunch of Hell's Angels about reckless habits of bike drivers.
Gentlemen. Let's leave the harpoons in the umbrella stand, and leave the conversation civil.
And Rincewind, sir. You have my sympathy just for trying the game, while not Anime lover yourself.
RincewindWizzard wrote:I mean wouldn't this story be more interesting if you added some realistic aspect to it and tried depicting the hard life's of people with severe disablements in the real world rak
My thought exactly, after releasing the 1'st act. Back then I had this idea in my head, how wonderfull it would be to see the minute details of the characters' struggles with everyday life, on top of their personal, and romantical issues. I hoped for the full release to include just that. The Dev's took another route. Main theme is "not defined by".

And the amount of writing, well. You are pushed into the head of main protagonist, and exposed to his constant internal monologue, and undirectly to the train of thoughts of the person he's trying to understand. It might be intimidating to see it on the screen, but still, it is the wall of text, that is leaving you watching the ending credits at 4:30 am, trying to remember if you had lunch yesterday, or not. Because the main thing KS does is putting you a low one in the guts... emotionally. If you're not hit, too bad. Missed the experienced. Can go on with your life now. No hard feelings, really. It's not a fap material. It's pulp romance for boys (and girls too I guess).

If I ever had a http://i.pinger.pl/pgr480/e765fcfc00201 ... dorrar.jpgmirrion dorrar I might try to beg/bribe/threat Devs into letting a remake to be done, with unprecedentedly thorough consultations on disability side of things, and with a thousand of hollywood's best monkeys mashing the keys of a thousand prime typewriters, rewriting the script. It wouldn't match the original though, in term of feelings induced.
Edit: With a mirriard, I would make Kojima do it.
Last edited by NoOne3 on Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

themocaw
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Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by themocaw » Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:23 pm

My thoughts on why KS isn't the story about the struggles of disabled people: because they've already had that struggle.

KS's framing story is brilliant: the main character, Hisao, enters the story just before he becomes "One of Us." The girls, however, have each made it through their struggles with their disabilities. With the possible exception of Hanako, all of them have come to terms with what brought them to Yamaku.

The real cripple here is Hisao, and by extension, the player. The girls represent mirrored aspects of different things Hisao struggles with.

yz

Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by yz » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:30 pm

NoOne3 wrote:for boys (and girls too I guess).
what are you trying to say here, if i may ask?

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NoOne3
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Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by NoOne3 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:44 pm

I'm trying to express my inner confidence, that while it might appear that main target group of such a game are males, it can be compelling for those of the fairer persuasion. Since I have some experience being male, and none whatsoever being otherwise, I tried not to formulate my oppinions too definitely. Sorry, I guess I am sly like that.

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Althamus
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Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by Althamus » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:23 pm

NoOne3 wrote:I'm trying to express my inner confidence, that while it might appear that main target group of such a game are males, it can be compelling for those of the fairer persuasion. Since I have some experience being male, and none whatsoever being otherwise, I tried not to formulate my oppinions too definitely. Sorry, I guess I am sly like that.
I know of two people on the forum who've said they're female. I'm sure there are many more who just haven't stated their gender, or which I haven't picked up on (it's not like I'm writing a list).

AFAIK, roughly half the development team are female, and they're all unpaid. I can understand people (in this case, I'm talking about those women) making things they consider distasteful if they're being paid, but if they're making it for the love of it or a wish to see it produced, they normally believe they're making something worth making.
Routes played: Emi (10/10), Shizune (6/10), Lilly (9/10), Hanako (9/10), Rin (7.5/10)
Emi > Hanako = Lilly > Rin > Shizune
"As long as you're still alive, you can keep going." ~ Emi

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Thrasher Thetic
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Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by Thrasher Thetic » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:04 pm

Different strokes. I dug this as a story, of my friends who have played it, those who read regularly and enjoy a good story liked it. Those who don't read or prefer faster-paced stuff, not so much.

OP was looking for something faster paced with more emphasis on the disabilities of the characters, what he got (a character drama with the school as a backdrop) didn't trip his trigger. Seems legit to me. Not everyone is gonna like the same stuff, regardless of how good fans think it is.
The only difference between theory and reality is that in theory there is no difference, but in reality there is.

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Daitengu
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Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by Daitengu » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:13 pm

RincewindWizzard wrote:This "game" seems to have an immersing story. It took some convincing from myself to actually play it, since the first three attempts at downloading it has resulted in me running scared from the overwhelming wapanese-kawaaaaiiiii-ness that is the presentation of the website. But eventually I swallowed my prejudice and gave it a good try.

So my first impressions was that: What is this? Never ending wall of text that does not add anything to the story, most of the writing seems to be composed of irrelevant chit-chat that keeps the story at an unsatisfying standstill. It could have been shortened down to maybe half and that would still contain most of the blabber just goes on back and fourth without leading anywhere. Small talk is fine i guess, but to some extent you can't create an interesting novel entirely based on chit-chat.
Visual novel...
"Novel"

The pattern you're disagreeing with is actually quite fundamental to characterization in a story. Even Star Wars and Shawshank Redemption did it. Though admittedly with major action based events to build up on, with characterization as cooling off periods. In a slice of life type, the events are by definition much more mundane with drama usually as the build up periods. This could be why Shizune's path tends to not be liked, the ending scene kind of chops a cool down and build up with much less resolution than the other paths.
RincewindWizzard wrote: Not entirely based on small talk you will think. Yes, there is some relevant thoughts, pointers and motivational inspiration in this but it just drags on and on without any conclusion or real context. I just don't care of these girls are disabled or not and I never will. The admirable struggle of the girl with no legs that runs marathons, the shyness of the girl with a burnt face and then you see past their disabilities and find out who they truly are. Big whoop. Curtain closes, the audience walks away without so much as an applause. Because honestly, who wants to read a story that has been reprinted over and over again. Just in different terms: The struggle of the underdog, the hardships of fitting in ETC.
The fluff to me is part creating atmosphere, and part cooling down to let you have time to absorb previous characterization and events. Though I don't actually think there is much fluff at all. It seems to me that you're glossing over characters, at a bias, and ignoring the characterization of Hisao and crew during the scenes you probably call fluff. It'd be like ignoring all the scenes that define Luke Skywalker and commenting with a "so?" when Darth Vader tells him he's his father.
RincewindWizzard wrote:I mean wouldn't this story be more interesting if you added some realistic aspect to it and tried depicting the hard life's of people with severe disablements in the real world and not the daycare center that this school seems to be. I mean there is plenty of people with hard life's, handicapped or not. I just can't seem to see what the big deal is, except for some perverted excuse for someone to fantasize about sex with crippled girl, because that is the heart of this novel, sex with chicks without arms or legs.
What's the unrealistic part? Highschool kids trying to figure out how to deal with themselves? You seem to not have noticed that most of the girls have had to deal with it either all their lives or for many years. They're a bit ahead of the curb. Hisao is the new one specifically struggling with coming to terms with his disability. Their all dealing with it, though generally in a rather unhealthy way for most of them. Somehow you remind me of Shizune and her dad. Disconnected, shouting from their tall towers instead of getting to know. You went into the game with huge bias, I'm not really surprised you didn't like it. I use to hate shooters since I was a RPG story fanatic, but I got over it, and and have fun. I think if you want to actually enjoy the game, you'll have to take it as it is, instead of as you want it to be. I'd say leave it, and come back once you're in the right mind set, like liking words more for one. A change of mindset will definitely change your perspective, even on things in general for that matter.
I don't know anyone who successfully fapped to this game o.O

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newnar
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Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by newnar » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:42 pm

Whoever faps to this.

Is THE definition of perversion.

On so many levels.
I am a guy.
I sometimes talk like Rin Tezuka.
I am in love with Hanako Ikezawa.
NoOne3 wrote:Imagine a male Rin who secretly likes Hanako.
this
YES I AM. DEAL WITH IT.

New Age Retro Hippie
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Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by New Age Retro Hippie » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:07 pm

newnar wrote:Whoever faps to this.

Is THE definition of perversion.

On so many levels.
Well, I'd say that the content isn't really designed for the sake of fapping, so I'd agree that you shouldn't really be trying. However, just because someone's fapping to, say, Rin or Emi, doesn't mean that they're doing it because a lack of limbs is a turn-on.

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DrSkulk
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Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by DrSkulk » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:37 am

New Age Retro Hippie wrote:
newnar wrote:Whoever faps to this.

Is THE definition of perversion.

On so many levels.
Well, I'd say that the content isn't really designed for the sake of fapping, so I'd agree that you shouldn't really be trying. However, just because someone's fapping to, say, Rin or Emi, doesn't mean that they're doing it because a lack of limbs is a turn-on.
I can vouch for this. In my mind, Rin and Emi aren't people who lack limbs - they're just normal people who just happen to have special needs. I love them for their personality, not what they look like on the outside. Not saying I fapped to them yet though. lolz

EDIT: Actually, I do find both of them quite pretty, so I guess I do care about what they look like. Just not in emphasis of their disability.
Emi > Lilly >>> Rin > Hanako > Misha >>> Shizune - Personality
Lilly >>> Hanako > Emi > Rin >>> Shizune > Misha - Story
Rin > Misha >>> Hanako > Emi > Lilly >>> Shizune - Character

... Yeah, don't really like Shizune.

100%~! Wahahahaha~! :mrgreen:

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encrypted12345
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Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by encrypted12345 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:21 am

newnar wrote:Whoever faps to this.

Is THE definition of perversion.

On so many levels.
Out of context, the images are fappable, but in context... :|

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Nightydreams
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Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by Nightydreams » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:36 am

Out of context, the images are fappable, but in context... :|
If you tried fapping to the images in context your dick would tear itself off in protest rather then get hard.

also, while not a troll and while I respect OP's opinion. I find myself unable to NOT be insulted when a person reads the blurb and declares a flunk before touching the second page. One does notform a valid opinion when one does not have the right mindset.

Go into a visual novel expecting words.

Go into a slice-of-life expecting slices of life.

only then are your opinions valid and can be considered worthy of true and intelligent discussion.

I would not ever dare to say a game like COD: MW3 was horrible without ever playing it or only experiencing the first few minutes of it. I would also never dare to instantly declare a person stupid or not worthy of my time after only one or two conversations.

One should never touch base with anything and suddenly feel like they are entitled to be an expert. While OP does not say ever that he is an expert about these things I am sad to say that he comes of like he thinks he is.

TL:DR

Don't touch base then talk crap. Don't rant about novels having words. Don't think you know life better than anyone else.
I believe that a man should not go back on his decisions,
But here I am deciding to break that one rule of manliness.
Because I would rather be thought less of as a man,
Then be lost as a person.
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newnar
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Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by newnar » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:06 am

Never mind him. This is the same kind of guy who would say WoW sucks because orcs and tauren are too unrealistic, TF2 sucks because there're too many classes and Company of Heroes sucks because units can be placed under environmental cover.
I am a guy.
I sometimes talk like Rin Tezuka.
I am in love with Hanako Ikezawa.
NoOne3 wrote:Imagine a male Rin who secretly likes Hanako.
this
YES I AM. DEAL WITH IT.

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AnonymousOfNorway
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Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by AnonymousOfNorway » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:26 am

newnar wrote:Whoever faps to this.

Is THE definition of perversion.

On so many levels.
Some people can't fap to something they feel emotionally involved in; they need to be detached. But some other people are more turned on by a person/character they feel an emotional connection with, something akin to the feeling of erotic love but for a fictional character.

So the people who fapped to this game could be classified in at least three groups:
F1: Those who immersed themselves in the story, and sort of fell in erotic love with at least one of the characters
F2: Those who are attracted to the disability itself
F3: Those who felt detached, but looked past the disability and treated it as any other hentai

Also, the ones who didn't fap to this game can be classified in at least four groups:
N1: Those who immersed themselves in the story, and cared about the characters in a purely platonic way, and can only fap to things they're detached about
N2: Those who never fap to hentai anyway
N3: Those who would have fapped, but thought the disability thing made it just too weird
N4: Those who like hentai, but just happen to like different types of characters or situations than those who are in this game

I guess you could call the F2 people perverts, and the N3 people a tiny bit prudish, if you were to be judgmental - but it takes all kinds, right? Brofists go out to both the F1 and N1 people though.
Loved tenderly: Emi (g), Hanako (g), Lily (g). Friend-zoned: Shizune, Rin. To-do: Kenji, Yuuko, Misha

Swoopie
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Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by Swoopie » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:48 am

AnonymousOfNorway wrote:
newnar wrote:Whoever faps to this.

Is THE definition of perversion.

On so many levels.
Some people can't fap to something they feel emotionally involved in; they need to be detached. But some other people are more turned on by a person/character they feel an emotional connection with, something akin to the feeling of erotic love but for a fictional character.

So the people who fapped to this game could be classified in at least three groups:
F1: Those who immersed themselves in the story, and sort of fell in erotic love with at least one of the characters
F2: Those who are attracted to the disability itself
F3: Those who felt detached, but looked past the disability and treated it as any other hentai

Also, the ones who didn't fap to this game can be classified in at least four groups:
N1: Those who immersed themselves in the story, and cared about the characters in a purely platonic way, and can only fap to things they're detached about
N2: Those who never fap to hentai anyway
N3: Those who would have fapped, but thought the disability thing made it just too weird
N4: Those who like hentai, but just happen to like different types of characters or situations than those who are in this game

I guess you could call the F2 people perverts, and the N3 people a tiny bit prudish, if you were to be judgmental - but it takes all kinds, right? Brofists go out to both the F1 and N1 people though.
Wow, talking about putting people in boxes ;) You do have a point though. I think I consider myself an N1 (and N2 perhaps, haven't seen so much Hentai). But, the N1 without the last part. I have no clue whether I can only fap (what's with the fapping anyhow? Though that was only a Dutch thing) to things I'm detached about, it kinda makes sense. Would it make me a pervert if I was able to fap to things I'm attached about?

Anyway, brofist (nice one, didn't know that word). Or as we say in Holland : "Boks ouwe" ;)

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