Valid points that I do not understand

A forum for general discussion of the game: Open to all punters
RincewindWizzard
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:17 pm

Valid points that I do not understand

Post by RincewindWizzard » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:36 pm

This "game" seems to have an immersing story. It took some convincing from myself to actually play it, since the first three attempts at downloading it has resulted in me running scared from the overwhelming wapanese-kawaaaaiiiii-ness that is the presentation of the website. But eventually I swallowed my prejudice and gave it a good try.

So my first impressions was that: What is this? Never ending wall of text that does not add anything to the story, most of the writing seems to be composed of irrelevant chit-chat that keeps the story at an unsatisfying standstill. It could have been shortened down to maybe half and that would still contain most of the blabber just goes on back and fourth without leading anywhere. Small talk is fine i guess, but to some extent you can't create an interesting novel entirely based on chit-chat.

Not entirely based on small talk you will think. Yes, there is some relevant thoughts, pointers and motivational inspiration in this but it just drags on and on without any conclusion or real context. I just don't care of these girls are disabled or not and I never will. The admirable struggle of the girl with no legs that runs marathons, the shyness of the girl with a burnt face and then you see past their disabilities and find out who they truly are. Big whoop. Curtain closes, the audience walks away without so much as an applause. Because honestly, who wants to read a story that has been reprinted over and over again. Just in different terms: The struggle of the underdog, the hardships of fitting in ETC.

I mean wouldn't this story be more interesting if you added some realistic aspect to it and tried depicting the hard life's of people with severe disablements in the real world and not the daycare center that this school seems to be. I mean there is plenty of people with hard life's, handicapped or not. I just can't seem to see what the big deal is, except for some perverted excuse for someone to fantasize about sex with crippled girl, because that is the heart of this novel, sex with chicks without arms or legs.

User avatar
Tomate
Posts: 390
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:12 pm
Location: São Paulo, Brazil.

Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by Tomate » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:46 pm

Heh, too many words in your visual novel? Well novels tend to have words.

About the other things you said, well, taste is taste. Ks was not supposed to be about the trial of tribulations of disabled girls in a gritty and realistic world, actually if there is a message in the game, a Moral of the story, it is something like "People with disabilities are not special nor fragile, they are just people"
Don't just eat that hamburger, eat the HELL out of it!

RincewindWizzard
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:17 pm

Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by RincewindWizzard » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:54 pm

.
Attachments
memes-fry-can-never-tell.jpg
memes-fry-can-never-tell.jpg (17.36 KiB) Viewed 2296 times

User avatar
Nekken
Posts: 197
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:15 pm

Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by Nekken » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:05 pm

I realize this is probably a troll, but what the hell; I'll bite.
RincewindWizzard wrote:I mean wouldn't this story be more interesting if you added some realistic aspect to it...
Funny; I've heard more than one person, including people with disabilities, praise the game's realistic approach to things.
and tried depicting the hard life's of people with severe disablements in the real world and not the daycare center that this school seems to be. I mean there is plenty of people with hard life's, handicapped or not.
I'm curious: do you have a physical disability of some kind? Because what you're talking about sounds like pity: one of the things this game (and most contemporary disability advocates) speak vehemently against.
Falling in love is a volcano. Being in love is a kotatsu.

RincewindWizzard
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:17 pm

Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by RincewindWizzard » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:14 pm

pity? i know about pity, it is probably the worst thing you can do to a person.

and no i do not have a disability (as far as i am aware)

but here's an example of my experience, i train aikido and there is a guy with severe CP that trains with us. and i feel his struggle when we train as i feel my own struggle, but after some time you really don't think about it, he can apply some pretty sweet techniques. so here is where i don't care if you are handicapped or not.

and not im not trolling, im just trying to present a different viewpoint and i ask that you actually read my text and try to grasp my meaning instead of picking out pieces of text and saying troll.

User avatar
Mirage_GSM
Posts: 6059
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:24 am
Location: Germany

Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by Mirage_GSM » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:44 pm

I wouldn't call your first post trolling. You don't like KS. You gave your reasons. Fine.
However calling Tomate a troll just because he told you his opinion of what KS is about...
Well, it seems you don't take kindly to differing opinions.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.

User avatar
Snow_Storm
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:49 pm
Location: Saint Louis

Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by Snow_Storm » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:06 pm

RincewindWizzard wrote:.
Oh wow. He's a a troll because he's not a fan of the game you love and is not jerking off said game.

Cry me a river, boy.

GaseousMaskk

Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by GaseousMaskk » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:24 pm

Snow_Storm wrote:
RincewindWizzard wrote:.
Oh wow. He's a a troll because he's not a fan of the game you love and is not jerking off said game.

Cry me a river, boy.
He might as well call 99% of the forum members trolls while he's at it

Core Xii

Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by Core Xii » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:29 am

RincewindWizzard wrote:What is this? Never ending wall of text that does not add anything to the story, most of the writing seems to be composed of irrelevant chit-chat that keeps the story at an unsatisfying standstill. It could have been shortened down to maybe half and that would still contain most of the blabber just goes on back and fourth without leading anywhere. Small talk is fine i guess, but to some extent you can't create an interesting novel entirely based on chit-chat.
It's about making a connection to the characters by following their relatively mundane life. You could compress the entire story into a few paragraphs, but what would be the point? You wouldn't care about the characters or have any emotional investment to them, because you haven't spent time with them. That's why there's a lot of seemingly "irrelevant" text; you invest your time, and the payoff is emotion when something important does happen.
RincewindWizzard wrote:I just can't seem to see what the big deal is, except for some perverted excuse for someone to fantasize about sex with crippled girl, because that is the heart of this novel, sex with chicks without arms or legs.
I'm sorry you feel that way. Out of several hours of storytelling, there's 5 minutes of sex and you stamp the whole thing as pornography. That's very narrow-minded. Let me guess, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is in your opinion a civilian massacre simulator, because of that one airport scene?

User avatar
encrypted12345
Posts: 425
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by encrypted12345 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:47 am

RincewindWizzard wrote:So my first impressions was that: What is this? Never ending wall of text that does not add anything to the story, most of the writing seems to be composed of irrelevant chit-chat that keeps the story at an unsatisfying standstill. It could have been shortened down to maybe half and that would still contain most of the blabber just goes on back and fourth without leading anywhere. Small talk is fine i guess, but to some extent you can't create an interesting novel entirely based on chit-chat.
There are three major aspects of a story: Plot, Characterization, and Atmosphere. What is irrelevant to the plot is relevant to the characterization and realistic atmosphere. While the plot wasn't epic, deep, or awe-inspiring, the characterization was.
RincewindWizzard wrote:Because honestly, who wants to read a story that has been reprinted over and over again. Just in different terms: The struggle of the underdog, the hardships of fitting in ETC.
That was never the point. It was about humans being human. It's fine if you don't understand that, but I just felt like pointing it out.
RincewindWizzard wrote:I mean wouldn't this story be more interesting if you added some realistic aspect to it and tried depicting the hard life's of people with severe disablements in the real world and not the daycare center that this school seems to be. I mean there is plenty of people with hard life's, handicapped or not.
Grimdark ain't realistic. Not everyone angsts about the disadvantages they suffer in life unlike what some melodramas may lead you to believe. I am somewhat curious about your definition of severe disability since armlessness seems to be too mundane for you. Muscular dystrophy?
RincewindWizzard wrote:that is the heart of this novel, sex with chicks without arms or legs.
You could actually fap to this?!?!? Not even the average /b/tard could fap to this. You, sir, are incredible!

Swoopie
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:50 pm

Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by Swoopie » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:38 am

Although I can relate to your opinion Rincewind, I think it's a matter of taste. Ofcourse there is a LOT of text to read, but for me that was actually what makes it immersive. Reading through all the text slowly lets you build your 'state of mind' and builds up the relationship you have with the characters in the story. Ofcourse, if you just want to take a point across the game could've been made WAY shorter, but then it would miss the point. For me, at least. Ofcourse that's not for everyone. I'm kind of a sentimental guy and like to get 'lost' in another world. And KS did that job just fine for me.

The only thing that annoyed me a bit was the whole Kenji stuff. Ofcourse I liked the idea, but sometimes the conversations in the hallway went on too long for me. But I guess that's also a matter of opinion.

Guest Poster

Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by Guest Poster » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:39 am

What I usually ask of people who raise points like these is...have you played all the way through? Half of the time, many questions are answered simply by playing through later acts.

Oh, and it's a visual novel, not a game by ordinary standards. It has a lot of text. KS isn't even the wordiest visual novel out there.
I mean wouldn't this story be more interesting if you added some realistic aspect to it and tried depicting the hard life's of people with severe disablements in the real world and not the daycare center that this school seems to be. I mean there is plenty of people with hard life's, handicapped or not.
You could argue that the slice-of-life approach KS takes is actually more realistic than a melodrama pointing out how hard the disabled person's life is. Especially those who've been disabled since birth generally don't know any better and their thought processes aren't of the "woo is me, I can't see/hear/talk"-type. Three of the girls you can end up with have had their conditions since birth and finished adapting to it way before they were introduced. A drama focussing on their conditions wouldn't be appropriate for them. And even the other two who were in an accident that left its marks have more aspects to them than just what they lost in that incident.

If you had a melodrama focussing completely on a struggling disabled person's hard life, their character would eventually be completely defined by their disability (the poor deaf who can't make small talk, the poor blind who can't go shopping on her own) and the only thing the story would evoke in the reader is pity for that person. If the story focussed on the characters' personalities while acknowledging the characters' disabilities but not putting more focus on it than on other aspects of the character, it's easier for the reader to comprehend there's more to a person than just his physical condition.
I just can't seem to see what the big deal is, except for some perverted excuse for someone to fantasize about sex with crippled girl, because that is the heart of this novel, sex with chicks without arms or legs.
Nevermind what I said at the top of my post, you clearly did not play all the way through. Keep playing, you might start seeing KS in a more nuanced light without anyone else needing to convince you.

User avatar
DrSkulk
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:12 am
Location: Australia

Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by DrSkulk » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:52 am

encrypted12345 wrote:
RincewindWizzard wrote:that is the heart of this novel, sex with chicks without arms or legs.
You could actually fap to this?!?!? Not even the average /b/tard could fap to this. You, sir, are incredible!
So true. If one took this game as seriously as most of us have, I doubt they could bring themselves to do so.
Emi > Lilly >>> Rin > Hanako > Misha >>> Shizune - Personality
Lilly >>> Hanako > Emi > Rin >>> Shizune > Misha - Story
Rin > Misha >>> Hanako > Emi > Lilly >>> Shizune - Character

... Yeah, don't really like Shizune.

100%~! Wahahahaha~! :mrgreen:

New Age Retro Hippie
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:02 am

Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by New Age Retro Hippie » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:00 am

RincewindWizzard wrote:pity? i know about pity, it is probably the worst thing you can do to a person.

and no i do not have a disability (as far as i am aware)

but here's an example of my experience, i train aikido and there is a guy with severe CP that trains with us. and i feel his struggle when we train as i feel my own struggle, but after some time you really don't think about it, he can apply some pretty sweet techniques. so here is where i don't care if you are handicapped or not.

and not im not trolling, im just trying to present a different viewpoint and i ask that you actually read my text and try to grasp my meaning instead of picking out pieces of text and saying troll.
For a non-troll, the comment about a "daycare center" is kind of stupid. I mean, schools for the differently abled do exist. Do you think that we shouldn't cover these schools in fiction? If so, why?

User avatar
toxicmaniac
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:55 pm

Re: Valid points that I do not understand

Post by toxicmaniac » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:18 am

I'm pretty sure this is a troll post but i am bored so whatever.

Those who think off this game as an eroge dating sim to feel sorry about cripled girls are doing it wrong. It is not about trying to feel sorry for those girls because they are crippled. If you play this game purely for the idea of "ohhh they are crippled how brave of them for following their dreams" then you have no sense of emotions or human behaviour whatsoever.

The girls do not represent the message that disabled girls are people to. It represents the emotions, feelings and thoughts you yourself will have to overcome.

Look at Emi for example. Don't look at her as a poor girl that tries to become a runner despite her disability. She represents your own drive and motivation, that you shouldn't doubt about things. She represents that if you really want to go for something then go for it even if people do not believe in you. Hence the motto "can you stand up for yourself?"

Then look at Hanako. Don't look at her as that poor shy girl you need to protect because she has scars. She represents isolation and distrust. The feeling alot of people have when they don't trust someone to open themself to others as they are afraid that they won't judge or accept them. She represents that you shouldn't be afraid of social rejections. Hence her motto "can you face your fears?"

You see Katawa Shoujo is not your typical shallow visual novel with cliché characters. Which ever route you liked the most is not the girls you liked the most its the feeling you should follow to make yourself a better human. These girls represent the fears and doubts what we as humans commonly deal with in our lives. As for me Rin's route has helped me alot to learn about myself.

As for the wall of text. Its a visual novel so you should've seen it coming. Its like saying that you complain about a book being to boring because you don't like to read.
Emi's route 7.5/10
Shizune's route: 8/10
Rin's route: 10/10
Hanako's route: 9.5/10
Lilly's route: Not finished

Post Reply