Why the hate for Shizune ??

[Shockproof Jamo]

Well, I wouldn't say that I hate her. That's too strong of a word to use here. But, Shizune's character has been designed with character traits which, in real life, would without a doubt start driving me up the wall, should I be forced to live with someone like her for any extended periods of time. I personally have no reason to continuously justify my existence to others trough obsessive busy working, and I hate it when people try to push their own moral code into me, even though I'm perfectly happy with my own.

I do understand where Shizune is coming from. Having somebody like Jigoro as a father is guaranteed to fuck a child up, more or less, and I do cut her some slack for that. But regardless, Shizune can't really help herself. She is who she is and will stay that way. Much too abrasive to my tastes.

[Dr. Robotnik]

What would you call it ??

I don't think there's any specific word for it, but it's not white knighting, as is proven by Hanako and Emi's routes. Hanako and Emi didn't need anyone to protect them or save them from themselves, they just needed someone to be there for them, to be a shoulder to cry on and to make them happy. They didn't need a white knight, they just needed love.

[Paul Atreides]

What would you call it ??

I don't think there's any specific word for it, but it's not white knighting, as is proven by Hanako and Emi's routes. Hanako and Emi didn't need anyone to protect them or save them from themselves, they just needed someone to be there for them, to be a shoulder to cry on and to make them happy. They didn't need a white knight, they just needed love.

In spanish we have a specific word for it, but describing it in English would be weird. Think the word in english may fit is "friendzone"

[Dr. Robotnik]

Well, friendzone if you try and be a white knight.

[Palas]

Someone DID sign up using my avatar as a nickname.

Anyway, I didn't read the thread but Shizune was the fan favourite (except for me) back when Act 1 was released. I think it has something to do with "awesome endings" since that was the main reason nobody (except for me) liked Emi back then.

[Paul Atreides]

Well, friendzone if you try and be a white knight.

But it also happens when you are the "shoulder to cry guy". Women don't usually see that kind of guy as a potential boyfriend/lover

[Mirage_GSM]

Also like to menton that in Shizune's Route. Shizune actually invites Hanako to play chess with her when she notices her looking at a chess board in the Student Council Room during a chance meeting. Sadly she is forced to conclude that because Hanako does not like chess per se just the memories that she associates with it. And thus it is not something they can become freinds over.

That is only Shizune's interpretation, which I frankly do not agree with.
It is possible to like a game without becoming obsessed over winning it or creating alternate versions of it just to drive up the competitiveness. In that particular case, chess and speed chess are radically different from each other, and I can totally understand if a person likes one and not the other. Asserting that Hanako "doesn't really like chess" is just using her own world view to judge Hanako's - it's an example of her lack of empathy.

Why the fuck is every singe person on this forum so ready to assume that everyone else is a white knight? Seriously, stop using that word, it is the exact opposite of what this game is about, and everyone knows that.

What would you call it ??

I don't have to call it anything, but I don't have to be a white knight to dislike people bossing me around.

[Palas]

Oh wait you are actually discussing Shizune's bossing around on Hanako? Oh I hated that so much. Who the hell does she think she is? Oh that short-haired, four-eyed Hitler.

On all seriousness I do agree with Mirage because, well, that was some clear yet dirty judging we saw there. She knows shit about Hanako or what piques her interest and already comes up with the presumption.

[Dr. Robotnik]

Yes, that is a very good point, my avatar brother. Maybe, just maybe, Hanako isn't that great because she never plays against anyone but Lilly. And Shizune could've easily assumed this, because Lilly is the only person she's ever seen with. Not feeling so smart now, are ya?

[geekahedron]

Let me just toss in a few cents and say that I don't hate Shizune, although I didn't enjoy her story as much as I did the other girls'. Now, I have a rather intellectual personality and very much enjoy works that have subtleties to be unraveled and nuances to explore. I picked up on everything Shizune's "supporters" are saying makes the story great, and I caught it all before it was pointed out; I just don't opine that those things did in fact make it a great story compared to the others in the game.

Without going into a bunch of detail to argue over, my take on the bottom line is this: just like everyone else in the game, Shizune has some issues. Unlike the other girls, her issues don't really get addressed and certainly are not resolved by the end of her arc. On top of that fact (and largely because of it), the intimate/romantic side of the relationship never matures.

The story that is there is a good one, and I enjoyed it for its subtleties as much as anyone. I feel like it's missing that "good" ending, though; I tend to think of the endings to Shizune's arc as relating to the "bad" and "neutral" endings in the others. I would love it if there were a third route with a good ending where the above issues are handled, Shizune faces some of her proverbial demons, and there's a good romantic ending to the story.

[MoogleDee]

I don't hate Shizune - quite the opposite. I just wish her route was fleshed out a little more. Shizune herself is a lot like a friend I had in high school, so I had the nostalgia factor going for me. Then again, that friend didn't tie me down and ride my bone but still.

[rydiafan]

off topic for a sec ... this is why i love this vn ... we can debate this topic for ever because there 5 unique ( well 6 ) girls each so different from each other that we become fanboyish/girlish that we fight like teen girls over the last JB concert ticket over our favorite girl ... that is a sign of a great game

now back on topic

Let me just toss in a few cents and say that I don't hate Shizune, although I didn't enjoy her story as much as I did the other girls'. Now, I have a rather intellectual personality and very much enjoy works that have subtleties to be unraveled and nuances to explore. I picked up on everything Shizune's "supporters" are saying makes the story great, and I caught it all before it was pointed out; I just don't opine that those things did in fact make it a great story compared to the others in the game.

Without going into a bunch of detail to argue over, my take on the bottom line is this: just like everyone else in the game, Shizune has some issues. Unlike the other girls, her issues don't really get addressed and certainly are not resolved by the end of her arc. On top of that fact (and largely because of it), the intimate/romantic side of the relationship never matures.

The story that is there is a good one, and I enjoyed it for its subtleties as much as anyone. I feel like it's missing that "good" ending, though; I tend to think of the endings to Shizune's arc as relating to the "bad" and "neutral" endings in the others. I would love it if there were a third route with a good ending where the above issues are handled, Shizune faces some of her proverbial demons, and there's a good romantic ending to the story.

Shizune is the perfect example of loving someone for who they are not who you want them to be ... imo the beauty of Shizune 's story is she doesn't change to who the player wanted her to be ... she is still a bitch by the end of the game ... she know who she was at the start of game ... and wasn't gonna change ... you as that player had to change to love her , then decide if u wanted to to bond with her ... lilly , emi , hanako, misha and even rin changed in some little way to suit the needs of the player ... not shizune ... you had to follow her rules ... join the student counsil , work hard to make the festible go smoothly , learn to sign ... but each time u get her to smile or laugh felt like something to be proud of cause she is honestly thankful for the hard work did to be close to her ... and for that reason is why i think its the best story

[CNB]

Sadly she is forced to conclude that because Hanako does not like chess per se just the memories that she associates with it. And thus it is not something they can become freinds over.

That seemed quite like Shizune coming up with a flimsy rationalization to excuse her hypercompetitiveness and poor sportsmanship. It's like inviting someone to a casual poker night, and later sighing that you can't play with someone who "doesn't really like poker" when they balk at your suggestion that the ante be raised from $1 to $100 and an article of clothing... just to make things more interesting, you know?

[erisi236]

A routine soul smear reviled that she has the evil gene.

Shizune is evil, pure evil.

[Synthus]

I find it funny that the traits that many posters are complaining about are the very traits that endear Shizune to me. She's one of those people that pushes others around her outside their comfort zone, so there's never really a dull moment around her. She'd probably be a great ca/tg/irl too, if a slightly annoying one because of her extreme powergaming.

Nice job sugar coating my words and then disguising it as an intelligent response. She has no understanding of how people think or act, and expects everyone to be just like her when commanded. She's more socially oblivious than Misha.

Sugarcoating? Hardly. It's called a different perspective.

Of course she bloody doesn't. This is apparent in her behaviour, and if it wasn't obvious enough the route lays it out for you. She compartmentalizes events and takes everything at face value. To her this is a perfectly normal way of dealing with things. It doesn't make her worse, just different.

Let them down gently and then comfort them, or at least not shoot them down without a second thought.

The information that we have simply states that Shizune declined Misha's confession and kept clinging on to her as a friend. Your bias may be affecting your conclusions.

The only thing that she could have done that would spare Misha emotional pain was to reciprocate her feelings, and she was obviously unwilling to do that. Misha never got the time or distance necessary to get over it because Shizune clung on to her as a friend, and that preserved a seed of (false) hope.

There's also no way of letting someone down gently in that kind of scenario. An insufficiently definitive response simply leads the other party on by giving them the idea that they have a chance.

I'm not a douche to them unless they start with me. Shizune, even when complemented on her culinary skills, starts being a bitch to Lilly.

Uh-huh. Given how you're reacting to a slightly snotty forum response, you'll forgive me if I remain skeptical.

Of course she's a bitch to Lilly. The two of them have been giving each other shit for so long that it's practically a reflex response. I'd wager that the only reason Lilly doesn't start first is because she has obvious difficulties with detecting Shizune's presence.