Just finished Hanako's route, and well...

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fcd15
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Just finished Hanako's route, and well...

Post by fcd15 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:23 am

The last scene was cute. Really really cute. The cutest of all of them. Put it on B/W and you have the perfect innocent love scene, Tumblr-ready. The animation for her route was great too, and a lot more heartfelt than the others. The whole concept of people coming and leaving all the time while Hisao ended up being the only one standing there for her is something that couldn't be seen on the other animations.

But seriously, what the fuck was happening all along? They don't understand each other all the way to the end of the story, and the sex scene made me feel worse than I could put into words. Not only because it didn't look pleasant at all (heck, the BGM was Painful Story!). Of all the routes, they chose Hanako's to have both characters' genitals more than visible? Why not Emi's, given the fact that the events there unfold MUCH more naturally?

It tied with Emi's for my second favorite route. But goddamn that was weird. Am I the only one who thinks this could have been way less painful?

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UncleJellyfish
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Re: Just finished Hanako's route, and well...

Post by UncleJellyfish » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:32 am

fcd15 wrote:Am I the only one who thinks this could have been way less painful?
No, not likely. I felt that her sex scene, bar the over-exposed genitalia, was actually quite powerful. Though Hisao didn't understand what she needed from him, she still wanted to be close to him, and in fear of him losing interest or leaving her, she decided, of her own choosing, that allowing him to make love with her would hopefully bring them closer, or at least keep him around longer. She wanted him to see her as a lover, not just as someone to protect, and so she acted as a lover would. However, the results were less than expected. It took an honest emotional breakdown to finally make Hisao understand what it was she needed from him. Once that barrier was breached, there was nothing left of the conflict between them, and thus, the route ended.

Also, I'm using that final scene as one of the desktop backgrounds in my background rotation.
Last edited by UncleJellyfish on Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm a Jellyfish that just so happens to be someone's Uncle.
Rin♥ > Hanako > Shizune/Lilly > Emi
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quellsnarg
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Re: Just finished Hanako's route, and well...

Post by quellsnarg » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:37 am

fcd15 wrote:It tied with Emi's for my second favorite route. But goddamn that was weird. Am I the only one who thinks this could have been way less painful?
Nope! It is one of my least favorite routes for that very reason, and for the fact that my initial impression was that their whole relationship was founded on really shaky ground and seemed really unhealthy to me... so yep. It was originally my least favorite route, but upon reflection, I think it's become fourth on my list before Lilly's... at least it deconstructs some tropes and shows Hanako to be an interesting character instead of a stereotypical weak girl who wants to be rescued.

Also, I understand my interpretation is canonically "wrong", but it's very hard for me to read the sex scene as anything but rape after my initial reading because she's in so much pain and seems really hesitant. :/ Even if I read it with the canon interpretation, it still feels messed up because Hanako said she only had sex with Hisao to get closer to him, not because she was ready for it...

But that's my two cents and I'd rather not argue about it. I see how people see it differently, I just wanted to say my opinion.
Shizune >>> Emi > Rin = Hanako >> Lilly

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UncleJellyfish
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Re: Just finished Hanako's route, and well...

Post by UncleJellyfish » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:44 am

EDITED

Hisao even acknowledges later, after Hanako confesses her reason for them having sex, that it was indeed for the wrong reasons. It seems that they both overlook it, though, after their love confessions. I understand the concept of the "relationship built on shaky ground," but really, their actual relationship doesn't even start until the very end of the route. Where in Lilly's, Shizune's, and Emi's arcs, Hisao and said girl start dating near the end of Act 2/middle of Act 3, both Rin's♥ and Hanako's arcs have the actual relationship starting right as they end. So yes, perhaps throughout the story they are on shaky ground, but that's mostly because neither of them have figured out where to stand, yet.
Last edited by UncleJellyfish on Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rin♥ > Hanako > Shizune/Lilly > Emi
My Katawa Shoujo Impressions.
Katawa Shoujo - Written Novel Project
I hate spoiler tags, so I will never use them in discussion. If you don't want me to spoil something for you, then don't read what I write.

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russianspy1234
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Re: Just finished Hanako's route, and well...

Post by russianspy1234 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:46 am

quellsnarg wrote:
fcd15 wrote: Hanako said she only had sex with Hisao to get closer to him, not because she was ready for it...

But that's my two cents and I'd rather not argue about it. I see how people see it differently, I just wanted to say my opinion.
thats the thing, she does it because she wants something from hisao and feels that this is the best way to get it from him. its more like prostitution than it is rape if you really want to put a dark tone on it. i personally found the rin stuff to be far more rapelike, seeing as how i am not even sure she understands those sort of concepts, whereas hanako most likely does, or at least she has read about them second hand and has a decent idea. i think it might have been more clear if there was a choice after the scene, where one led to the bad end and one to the good it would have been more clear that the sex scene wasnt supposed to be seen as a good thing, and given the placement of the text it is pretty easy to miss the pertinent words, which causes what happens after to lose some significance.

themocaw
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Re: Just finished Hanako's route, and well...

Post by themocaw » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:10 am

People have lousy sex all the time. Hisao and Hanako was bad sex. Bad sex does not necessarily equal rape, you know.

I mean, compare it to the Emi anal scene. Both are really awkward sex scenes involving something that seemed like a good idea at the time but quickly devolved into something that neither party really, in the end, enjoyed. . . but the Emi scene is played for laughs, while the Hanako scene seems to get everyone up in arms. WTF.

IMO, it's because people keep thinking of Hanako as a precious glass vase to be coddled and protected. Well, you know what? She's not. She's stronger than you give her credit for. Lots of girls have lost their virginities in ways they probably, in retrospect, would have preferred not to. Hanako is no different. Sleeping with a guy because you're terrified you'll lose him isn't a good idea, but. . . you know what? Shit like that is part of being a fallible human being as opposed to an idealized goddess.

I think people are just up in arms because, in the end, you can't really fap to Hanako's H-scene. It's awkward, it's uncomfortable, it's too real. Whatever. Sex is like that. Sometimes it's the best and most mindblowing thing in the world. Sometimes it's something you regret later.

The Hanako H-scene isn't idealized, but it is honest: these two had sex for the first time for all the wrong reasons. But you know what? That just means they're human. And, you know, after they got past it, I'm sure that they've ended up having all sorts of mindblowing fully consensual, loving, and orgasmic sex with each other many many times in that route. But we don't give a shit about that, because, honestly, loving and consensual sex is kinda boring to watch if you're not one of the people participating in it.

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UncleJellyfish
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Re: Just finished Hanako's route, and well...

Post by UncleJellyfish » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:59 am

themocaw wrote:People have lousy sex all the time. Hisao and Hanako was bad sex. Bad sex does not necessarily equal rape, you know.

I mean, compare it to the Emi anal scene. Both are really awkward sex scenes involving something that seemed like a good idea at the time but quickly devolved into something that neither party really, in the end, enjoyed. . . but the Emi scene is played for laughs, while the Hanako scene seems to get everyone up in arms. WTF.

IMO, it's because people keep thinking of Hanako as a precious glass vase to be coddled and protected. Well, you know what? She's not. She's stronger than you give her credit for. Lots of girls have lost their virginities in ways they probably, in retrospect, would have preferred not to. Hanako is no different. Sleeping with a guy because you're terrified you'll lose him isn't a good idea, but. . . you know what? Shit like that is part of being a fallible human being as opposed to an idealized goddess.

I think people are just up in arms because, in the end, you can't really fap to Hanako's H-scene. It's awkward, it's uncomfortable, it's too real. Whatever. Sex is like that. Sometimes it's the best and most mindblowing thing in the world. Sometimes it's something you regret later.

The Hanako H-scene isn't idealized, but it is honest: these two had sex for the first time for all the wrong reasons. But you know what? That just means they're human. And, you know, after they got past it, I'm sure that they've ended up having all sorts of mindblowing fully consensual, loving, and orgasmic sex with each other many many times in that route. But we don't give a shit about that, because, honestly, loving and consensual sex is kinda boring to watch if you're not one of the people participating in it.
*Takes hat off* Couldn't have said it better myself. You're completely right on all accounts, and I do believe the honesty in the act and what it meant to both of them at the time is far more important than the act itself.
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Rin♥ > Hanako > Shizune/Lilly > Emi
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Re: Just finished Hanako's route, and well...

Post by Guest Poster » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:11 am

Very well worded, good sir. Respect.

Yeah, Hanako's H-scene was awkward. Her reasons for initiating sex were kinda wrong, but well...human beings have sex for all kinds of reasons, including trying to keep people close. Some women even get pregnant for that reason. I guess everybody felt for Hanako and would have hoped her first experience was more idyllical, since the girl deserved it after all the hardships she's already been through. But at least the whole thing resulted in a much healthier relationship where she and Hisao can take their time to grow to a point where this kind of intimacy would feel natural to them both.

Saucium
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Re: Just finished Hanako's route, and well...

Post by Saucium » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:22 am

That's precisely why I like this route: it has an awkward honesty in almost everything. Take note, the H-scene wasn't the only instance. The scar comparison and the kiss were also honest. Even the games were honest.
Last edited by Saucium on Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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zanzarra
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Re: Just finished Hanako's route, and well...

Post by zanzarra » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:48 am

I think her sex scene was intentionally revolting to a degree. It had the wrong reasons, it felt wrong for both of them, so why not make it feel wrong for the player, too?
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Re: Just finished Hanako's route, and well...

Post by Nekken » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:20 am

He didn't force, threaten, or decieve her, and he didn't know she was working from a mistaken impression, yet he raped her?

I have to say, that's a funny definition of rape you're using. He was indeed reckless -freezing up as she did is one of the classic red flags, and he should have stopped to check if things were all right- but she herself confirms that she was perfectly willing, even though she did it for the wrong reasons. I can't see that as rape, and it seems she doesn't either.

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russianspy1234
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Re: Just finished Hanako's route, and well...

Post by russianspy1234 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:57 am

UncleJellyfish wrote:
themocaw wrote:
I think people are just up in arms because, in the end, you can't really fap to Hanako's H-scene. It's awkward, it's uncomfortable, it's too real. Whatever. Sex is like that. Sometimes it's the best and most mindblowing thing in the world. Sometimes it's something you regret later.
it might also be jelousy / white knight syndrome. people are thinking "what?!? how could hisao do that? i would never take advantage of sweet hanako in that way!

Ry74
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Re: Just finished Hanako's route, and well...

Post by Ry74 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:40 pm

russianspy1234 wrote:
it might also be jelousy / white knight syndrome. people are thinking "what?!? how could hisao do that? i would never take advantage of sweet hanako in that way!

in which case, they've probably missed the point of the route altogether.

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Nyarly
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Re: Just finished Hanako's route, and well...

Post by Nyarly » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:03 pm

Ry74 wrote:
russianspy1234 wrote:
it might also be jelousy / white knight syndrome. people are thinking "what?!? how could hisao do that? i would never take advantage of sweet hanako in that way!

in which case, they've probably missed the point of the route altogether.
Really, that wouldn't surprise me at all.

Observation: People are way too quick to use the R-word.

I would say more about the whole matter, but themocaw said it better than I ever could.

Ry74
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Re: Just finished Hanako's route, and well...

Post by Ry74 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:13 pm

Nyarly wrote: Really, that wouldn't surprise me at all.

Observation: People are way too quick to use the R-word.

I would say more about the whole matter, but themocaw said it better than I ever could.
The thing is, in that in a good chunk of genre fiction, sex is either reserved for one of two applications- rape or quest reward, and Hanako's H-scene is nether of these. People are probably assuming that because it doesn't feel like the latter, it must be the former.

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