Am I the only one that enjoyed Shizune's route?

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nyttyn
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Re: Am I the only one that enjoyed Shizune's route?

Post by nyttyn » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:51 pm

I felt it was less of a "Shizune" route and more of a "Shizune & Misha" route. As a result, I didn't enjoy it as much as I could've due to having completely different expectations then what was provided.

Going to have to give it a second read through, remembering this time to remember that it's both of their route, and not just Shizune's.
Why does the OST feature so much piano, despite the fact that not even a single piano exists in the entire game!?

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Koda89
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Re: Am I the only one that enjoyed Shizune's route?

Post by Koda89 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:50 pm

I will say this, though, after thinking about it for a bit, I don't really get the complaining about Shizune's path having only one choice to make, as the majority of the choices in the other paths don't even really do anything. Most of the important choices in the other paths are the last choice in their respective Act 3 and any choices that pop up in their Act 4.

All Shizune's path did was get rid of the superfluous choices.

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Yuno
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Re: Am I the only one that enjoyed Shizune's route?

Post by Yuno » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:01 pm

I liked Shizune's route. I think some people are just used to the mushy-mushy love, or at least expect it. Shizune's route was full of romance, but it was shaded with her personality. She came to see Hisao as an equal, and a worthy opponent, which is good for someone so intensely competitive. I found many of the situations were funny and cute (like her challenging Hisao to carry Kenji's package).

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metalangel
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Re: Am I the only one that enjoyed Shizune's route?

Post by metalangel » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:12 pm

Very true. Romance and affection are just one part of a relationship. You also need to find the other person interesting and stimulating, and Shizune making things competitive certainly is!

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Zig_Zac
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Re: Am I the only one that enjoyed Shizune's route?

Post by Zig_Zac » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:26 pm

I'm a little more than half way through Shizune's path now and I'm not finding it that bad, not as bad as what some people say... she isn't the best, but its pretty good still...

Bagheera
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Re: Am I the only one that enjoyed Shizune's route?

Post by Bagheera » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:52 pm

Pl4t0 wrote:I realize that there are others out there who enjoyed the route, but they seem to be the least vocal about it - while I'm not going to go so far as to say that it was the best, it certainly wasn't as terrible as so many have suggested. In fact, I don't think any of these routes can even be quantified in terms of "best" and "worst"; far too much of it is subjective to make blanket statements like that.
Shizune was easily my least favorite character, but I thought she had one of the more interesting routes. The fact that there was only one meaningful choice to be made past the first act is a strike against it, of course (though there are a few interesting detours in said act that make up for this), but I thought the actual plot was probably the most sophisticated in the game. Between Shizune's psychology, the Misha situation, and the surprisingly down-to-earth ending (and the depressingly plausible bad end) the route has a lot to recommend it.
Girls: Emi = Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Shizune = Rin
Routes: Rin = Shizune > Emi > Lilly = Hanako


bradpara
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Re: Am I the only one that enjoyed Shizune's route?

Post by bradpara » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:21 pm

Quietpower wrote:I feel like comparing the different paths is like comparing apples to oranges to bananas. They're all delicious, but in their own ways.
Quoted for Truth, Rin's arc is this heavy meditation on the nature of genius and the ability of people to understand one another. Lilly's arc is a classic romantic soap opera, (and thus the one a Katawa Shoujo manga/anime/k-drama would most likely follow) Hanako's is the story of two wounded people learning to help one another by sharing their common pain. Emi's route is about learning to accept love even if it means being hurt.

Shizune's is none of that, it is indeed a very subtle about three people learning to deal with very difficult emotions. Made all the more difficult because one of the has a very obvious problem communicating with others. If you look and pay attention and take a moment to read into Shizune's blushing and playful nature, and most importantly her Act ending, it is easy to see that she *does* care for Hisao though she because she isn't sure how to deal with others, it hard for her to express. This is made even harder by the fact that she knows about Misha's feelings for her and is afraid that if she acts on her emotions to boldly, she might hurt Misha anddrive her away like she drove away most of the Student Council.

There is a line in Act one where Hisao mentions that Shizune looks alot like a little kid asking if she can play. This is a classic case of how you need to pay attention to get her arc. Shizune is lonely, to do a combination of her deafness and her upbringing, towards the end of path in her Good Ending, she reveals that one of her major motivations is I Just Want To Have Freinds the main reason that she is not all lovely dovey with Hisao is because, 1.She has little if any idea how to have that sort of relationship and 2. She is afraid of hurting Misha and driving her away.

If one has an open mind and is willing judge it on its own merits. It is actually a very enjoyable story.
Shizune=Hanako>Lilly>Emi=Rin
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Pl4t0
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Re: Am I the only one that enjoyed Shizune's route?

Post by Pl4t0 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:11 pm

Having finished Lilly's route, I think I've got a much better perspective on why people are a bit upset over Shizune's path. Which is not to say that I am among them (I am definitely not), but I can at least conceive of sympathizing.

Despite getting Lilly's good end, days later I've still got a knot in my stomach. It offers what Shizune's path, in many ways, does not: an emotional rollercoaster. The Misha situation, while handled expertly (IMAO), is handled very differently. Emotional as it may be, the conflict and its resolution are not meant to strike nearly as deep as the events of the other paths, considering that the stakes are significantly lower. The arcs of the route's respective characters are all very complex and satisfying to chew over but just can't offer the level of emotional attachment that the other routes can deliver on.

And that's not a bad thing. Shizune's route is just different. But it's different in a way that people weren't expecting, and is a pretty big departure from the tone and tenor of the other routes. By playing her route first I feel like I got the advantage of having no expectations and no bias...it's interesting how much the first playthrough can influence stuff like that.

Anyways, just my two cents on the whole thing.


Bagheera wrote:Shizune was easily my least favorite character, but I thought she had one of the more interesting routes. The fact that there was only one meaningful choice to be made past the first act is a strike against it, of course (though there are a few interesting detours in said act that make up for this), but I thought the actual plot was probably the most sophisticated in the game. Between Shizune's psychology, the Misha situation, and the surprisingly down-to-earth ending (and the depressingly plausible bad end) the route has a lot to recommend it.
It's unfortunate how many people seem to overlook those aspects of the path, and let's not forget how Hisao's character arc. Like her or not, it would be pretty interesting to get into Shizune's head and see just what it is that makes her tick.
Yuno wrote:I liked Shizune's route. I think some people are just used to the mushy-mushy love, or at least expect it. Shizune's route was full of romance, but it was shaded with her personality. She came to see Hisao as an equal, and a worthy opponent, which is good for someone so intensely competitive. I found many of the situations were funny and cute (like her challenging Hisao to carry Kenji's package).
Very true. Also, loved that scene, Emi might have puppy eyes but I still think Shizune has the capacity to be the cutest of them all. Not to mention it was hilarious :lol:

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Tsundere Lightning
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Re: Am I the only one that enjoyed Shizune's route?

Post by Tsundere Lightning » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:22 pm

You aren't alone, although I think it's much helped if you think of it a little differently.

As the tragedy of Misha and Shizune rather than as the story of Shizune and Hisao, I mean.

While I think that those two scenes in Emi path steal the show in terms of funniest route ever, I too want to beat Shizune's dad within an inch of his life using nothing but a sock and a month's worth of change. He's not as flat-out horrible as Rin's teacher but he's the most overt asshole in the game, and I loathe him. :mrgreen:
Shizune apologist, Rin fan, semipro visual novelist, noted attention whore

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Bagheera
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Re: Am I the only one that enjoyed Shizune's route?

Post by Bagheera » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:36 pm

Tsundere Lightning wrote:You aren't alone, although I think it's much helped if you think of it a little differently.

As the tragedy of Misha and Shizune rather than as the story of Shizune and Hisao, I mean.
Agreed. It's for this reason that I think this route is a good candidate for a tasteful harem ending. The difference being, of course, that it would be Shizune's harem, not Hisao's. I realize the fact she shot Misha down initially makes this a bit of a stretch, but between the depth of her feelings for Misha, the fact that she's still young (and thus figuring out where she sits on the spectrum of sexuality anyway), and the fact that people change over time I think it's plausible.

What can I say? I'm a sucker for a happy ending! :lol:
Girls: Emi = Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Shizune = Rin
Routes: Rin = Shizune > Emi > Lilly = Hanako


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Pl4t0
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Re: Am I the only one that enjoyed Shizune's route?

Post by Pl4t0 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:51 pm

Tsundere Lightning wrote:You aren't alone, although I think it's much helped if you think of it a little differently.

As the tragedy of Misha and Shizune rather than as the story of Shizune and Hisao, I mean.
To start, you have the best username ever.

Second, thanks for highlighting the "how you think of it" part, that leads nicely into a few interesting points - I actually think of the route as a several separate elements, in order of importance:

1) the story of Hisao. I'm gonna stick to my guns here and say that this was a route centered around Hisao's growth, whether it was immediately obvious or not, and despite the other elements being very nearly just as strong.
2) the tragedy of Misha/Shizune, purely because it was the obvious major conflict.
3) the story of Shizune, and her growth as instigated by Hisao (the catalyst). Her arc is fascinating to me, mostly because it was executed with pretty impressive precision. The way she "changes" is unique in a very interesting way.
4) The physical story of the relationship and the events it inspires. This is all the white noise happening in the background - Jigoro, Hideaki, the Student Council, and all that extra comedic jazz that didn't really contribute overall but still gave us a fun and enjoyable route to play through are what's in here. It's what's holding the three other threads together as a coherent whole.

Those 4 elements sort of shape and define the route for me, in any case. Would be interesting to see how other people view it.
Tsundere Lightning wrote:While I think that those two scenes in Emi path steal the show in terms of funniest route ever, I too want to beat Shizune's dad within an inch of his life using nothing but a sock and a month's worth of change. He's not as flat-out horrible as Rin's teacher but he's the most overt asshole in the game, and I loathe him. :mrgreen:
I'm going to start on Rin's route tonight, so I have yet to form my opinions on her teacher (though if the forums are right, I will hate him with a passion), and yeah, pretty hard to not want to beat Jigoro over the head.

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Koda89
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Re: Am I the only one that enjoyed Shizune's route?

Post by Koda89 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:07 pm

Pl4t0 wrote:
Tsundere Lightning wrote:You aren't alone, although I think it's much helped if you think of it a little differently.

As the tragedy of Misha and Shizune rather than as the story of Shizune and Hisao, I mean.
To start, you have the best username ever.

Second, thanks for highlighting the "how you think of it" part, that leads nicely into a few interesting points - I actually think of the route as a several separate elements, in order of importance:

1) the story of Hisao. I'm gonna stick to my guns here and say that this was a route centered around Hisao's growth, whether it was immediately obvious or not, and despite the other elements being very nearly just as strong.
2) the tragedy of Misha/Shizune, purely because it was the obvious major conflict.
3) the story of Shizune, and her growth as instigated by Hisao (the catalyst). Her arc is fascinating to me, mostly because it was executed with pretty impressive precision. The way she "changes" is unique in a very interesting way.
4) The physical story of the relationship and the events it inspires. This is all the white noise happening in the background - Jigoro, Hideaki, the Student Council, and all that extra comedic jazz that didn't really contribute overall but still gave us a fun and enjoyable route to play through are what's in here. It's what's holding the three other threads together as a coherent whole.

Those 4 elements sort of shape and define the route for me, in any case. Would be interesting to see how other people view it.
Tsundere Lightning wrote:While I think that those two scenes in Emi path steal the show in terms of funniest route ever, I too want to beat Shizune's dad within an inch of his life using nothing but a sock and a month's worth of change. He's not as flat-out horrible as Rin's teacher but he's the most overt asshole in the game, and I loathe him. :mrgreen:
I'm going to start on Rin's route tonight, so I have yet to form my opinions on her teacher (though if the forums are right, I will hate him with a passion), and yeah, pretty hard to not want to beat Jigoro over the head.
I honestly can't be that mad at Jigoro. He's just mad that he has such a stupid looking character design. :lol:

Bagheera
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Re: Am I the only one that enjoyed Shizune's route?

Post by Bagheera » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:21 pm

Koda89 wrote:I honestly can't be that mad at Jigoro. He's just mad that he has such a stupid looking character design. :lol:
I can't be mad at Jigoro because he's just too awesome to hate. It would be different if he was actually abusive or something, but as is he's just so over the top that I can't take him seriously. I do find it odd that he raised Shizune and still hasn't the slightest idea as to how to deal with her, though; you'd think he'd learn sign just so he could yell at her properly! :lol:
Girls: Emi = Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Shizune = Rin
Routes: Rin = Shizune > Emi > Lilly = Hanako


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Tsundere Lightning
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Re: Am I the only one that enjoyed Shizune's route?

Post by Tsundere Lightning » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:59 pm

Pl4t0 wrote:To start, you have the best username ever.
Thanks. I tried to make the worst VN-related pun for my handle at Lemmasoft, and I'm guessing I managed it.
Second, thanks for highlighting the "how you think of it" part, that leads nicely into a few interesting points - I actually think of the route as a several separate elements, in order of importance:

1) the story of Hisao. I'm gonna stick to my guns here and say that this was a route centered around Hisao's growth, whether it was immediately obvious or not, and despite the other elements being very nearly just as strong.
2) the tragedy of Misha/Shizune, purely because it was the obvious major conflict.
3) the story of Shizune, and her growth as instigated by Hisao (the catalyst). Her arc is fascinating to me, mostly because it was executed with pretty impressive precision. The way she "changes" is unique in a very interesting way.
4) The physical story of the relationship and the events it inspires. This is all the white noise happening in the background - Jigoro, Hideaki, the Student Council, and all that extra comedic jazz that didn't really contribute overall but still gave us a fun and enjoyable route to play through are what's in here. It's what's holding the three other threads together as a coherent whole.

Those 4 elements sort of shape and define the route for me, in any case. Would be interesting to see how other people view it.
Oh, absolutely: Shizune is a catalyst for Hisao's tremendous personal growth, as are all the girls on their paths, and that leads into his understanding of the point I mentioned, and so on. And it's a pretty funny route, I just think Emi beats it out for sheer lol-wat. Still, because of the central role of the Misha/Shizune relationship, I think that's the strongest part of the story even if it IS ultimately about Hisao's effect on the relationship rather than on those two themselves.
I'm going to start on Rin's route tonight, so I have yet to form my opinions on her teacher (though if the forums are right, I will hate him with a passion), and yeah, pretty hard to not want to beat Jigoro over the head.
Jigoro is an asshole, but he's an entertaining one. Rin's teacher is... yeah, not going to spoil it, but my Fanime cosplay this year will be him + a sign on his back
reading "Ask me about ruining my student's lives!" and damn if he doesn't deserve it.

[Edit reason: y u no close tags Tsunri]
Shizune apologist, Rin fan, semipro visual novelist, noted attention whore

I write KS fanfic. I preread KS fanfic. PM me with requests for either.
delta wrote: I've been caustic and mean since before 4chan even existed.

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Koda89
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Re: Am I the only one that enjoyed Shizune's route?

Post by Koda89 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:11 pm

Tsundere Lightning wrote:
Pl4t0 wrote:To start, you have the best username ever.
Thanks. I tried to make the worst VN-related pun for my handle at Lemmasoft, and I'm guessing I managed it.
Second, thanks for highlighting the "how you think of it" part, that leads nicely into a few interesting points - I actually think of the route as a several separate elements, in order of importance:

1) the story of Hisao. I'm gonna stick to my guns here and say that this was a route centered around Hisao's growth, whether it was immediately obvious or not, and despite the other elements being very nearly just as strong.
2) the tragedy of Misha/Shizune, purely because it was the obvious major conflict.
3) the story of Shizune, and her growth as instigated by Hisao (the catalyst). Her arc is fascinating to me, mostly because it was executed with pretty impressive precision. The way she "changes" is unique in a very interesting way.
4) The physical story of the relationship and the events it inspires. This is all the white noise happening in the background - Jigoro, Hideaki, the Student Council, and all that extra comedic jazz that didn't really contribute overall but still gave us a fun and enjoyable route to play through are what's in here. It's what's holding the three other threads together as a coherent whole.

Those 4 elements sort of shape and define the route for me, in any case. Would be interesting to see how other people view it.
Oh, absolutely: Shizune is a catalyst for Hisao's tremendous personal growth, as are all the girls on their paths, and that leads into his understanding of the point I mentioned, and so on. And it's a pretty funny route, I just think Emi beats it out for sheer lol-wat. Still, because of the central role of the Misha/Shizune relationship, I think that's the strongest part of the story even if it IS ultimately about Hisao's effect on the relationship rather than on those two themselves.
I'm going to start on Rin's route tonight, so I have yet to form my opinions on her teacher (though if the forums are right, I will hate him with a passion), and yeah, pretty hard to not want to beat Jigoro over the head.
Jigoro is an asshole, but he's an entertaining one. Rin's teacher is... yeah, not going to spoil it, but my Fanime cosplay this year will be him + a sign on his back
reading "Ask me about ruining my student's lives!" and damn if he doesn't deserve it.

[Edit reason: y u no close tags Tsunri]
Seriously. Nomiya has to be the BIGGEST dumbass asshole I've ever seen. I wanted to use his nutsack as a punching bag several times in the latter half of Rin's path. He started out fine, the typical kooky art teacher, but then......hoo boy..... :evil:

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