Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

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Rivan
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Rivan » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:06 pm

I like your teachers/staff. Maybe because at least two of them don't seem 100% sane themselves :D I'll agree that your male pictures are somehow...better. I guess it might be just a matter of experience drawing them or style or preferences... regardless.

I wondered if the setting was already agreed upon?

Also, there's an ever-present problem of how to deal with the disabilities in the long run. Are they an important or even defining part of the characters? Can their influence be lessened or even nearly negated - most of all, should it be? Are the disabilities something the characters want to dispose of, and rightly so, something they've come to rely on and live with, or something that defines them?

If the disability is to be "overcame" with time, at which extent should it stop?

Regardless, here are some things I think deserve to at least be suggested/brought up:

1) How we deal with the entire "I'm going for this girl" thing? Do we lock somebody onto one path for most of the game, or quite the opposite?
2)There are basically two ways in VNs on how to obtain a good ending with a girl. One is obvious and quite correct - spend time mostly, if not only, with her. The other suggests a complex social network - you need help from others, perhaps everyone else, to win said girl. In "Flower Shop", a VN/Dating Sim/Farming Sim, there's a slightly counter-intuitive storyline progression in which to win a single girl you basically have to associate with at least three of the four main female characters and have to associate with one other character about as much as the girl you're going for (since associating with each girl increases a single stat, and each girl is attracted to a lesser degree to the stat she increases and to a greater degree to a stat another one increases).
3) Endings. Do we go with the simple, good ending, bad ending, and possibly middle/better/true ending? Or do we apply a different formula?
Personally, I think it is good to consider that a girl may have a set of endings far differing from bad-good-better. Also, we may have to consider a good as well as a bad "single" or "just friends" ending.
4) Finally, the main character's role. Basically, he either has to be part of medical staff, family of a chief member of the medical staff, or a patient himself.

If he is a patient, he needs a mental problem that both makes him disabled as far as disabilities go, but also doesn't make him unplayable.
Merlyn_LeRoy mentioned auditory hallucinations, and I think it is an excellent idea.
First of all, we are left somewhat confused as to whether the hero really thinks that way, or is something he hear utterly the by-product of said hallucinations. It is also a good way of explaining however weird acts we'd need him to undertake, plus, it makes his character more interesting and allows him to have "imaginary" friends or believe that it is someone else trying to communicate to him at times (while, in truth, it is still just his disability).
How it could develop : If we're going for the hero and heroines somewhat controlling/overcoming their disability, then initially in romantic/sexual situations the voices could spoil the mood or intimacy. The hero would eventually learn to drown them with his own thoughts or emotions for short whiles, thus allowing him to spend quality time with friends/girlfriends.
If we're going toward him growing together with his disability, then the voices could eventually "take shape" and always manifest as certain characters, rather than random, disembodied and different voices.. Whether the hero realizes that only he can associate with said characters or not is up to the writer.


Otherwise, we have to come up with something else, that could shape the gameplay but would drastically alter it. Split personalities and so would be great for a romanced girl, but not for the main hero. It technically makes the point of developing his character moot, unless one of the personalities were highly rare to surface.

I think overall paranoia or a phobia might work well. In the second case, we need to pick something that pretty much rules out the guy from open society but doesn't neccessarily hurt his development or relationships. He could be scared of men (as in males), which would justify putting him in the more female-populated parts of the facility. He could be afraid of anything related to transport or communication, which would make it hard for him to live in the open.

I'd sooner pick obsessive-compulsive than bipolar in case of the main hero. It could even lead to funny situations.


Other than that, there's a question of what justifies putting someone into the facility that will be the main area of the game. As mentioned, we should avoid Asperger or autism. I think down's syndrome and pretty much any chromosomal defect that connects to a mental disability or retardation is out of the question, with possible exception of Klinefelter's along with hermaphroditism or transgender tendencies... but I doubt being, more or less, "a trap" would attract the main character romantically or justify staying in our awesome facility.

Unless we put both hermaphroditism or Klinefelter's or anything that may cause such gender ambiguity and then slap multiple personalities onto it, with one or more of them having a gender identity disorder. That would be a challenging character to write.

As for the girls you proposed... As I mentioned before, I'd be against "rape as backstory". The behavioral change/delusional girl is pretty interesting, especially how the hero would cope with her... basically not being her nearly all of the time.

Kleptomania is an awesome idea. In case of "overcoming" said disability to a degree, the hero could help her develop a habit of quickly occupying her hands whenever she has the desire to take something, or blurting out a plea for letting her borrow the thing she is about to steal. Also, it'd justify one of the girls being pretty much average but with a twist.

I'd avoid PTSD/survivor's guilt unless we were going completely extreme and the memories of said trauma would temporarily and drastically as well as unpredictable alter the character's behavior.


As for suggesting anything, I'd go with kleptomania (which you already suggested), or alternatively, pyromania (not enough dangerous women these days). Split personality would be great to work with and provide many endings, but I feel it would require more than one writer on the whole character. The character's development could end with a downer ending, where one of the personalities decides to "off" the other one, leading to suicide, or to any of the three happy endings : one personality ultimately prevailing or the personalities accepting each other and switching between themselves more voluntarily. Yes, this is inspired by another work of fiction.

Also, sadomasochism (and in nearly ABSOLUTE avoidance of the kinky matters, mind you) instead of suicidal tendencies or schizoaffective instead of depression or bipolar would work in my books.

Long post is long, so I'm gonna finish it.
Progress : Lilly - finished (Good ending), Hanako - finished (good ending), Rin - finished (Good ending), Shizune - finished (Bad ending), Emi - Finished (good ending)

Lilly=Rin > Hanako > Emi=Misha > Shizune

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imperial.standard
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by imperial.standard » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:03 am

Rivan wrote:I like your teachers/staff. Maybe because at least two of them don't seem 100% sane themselves :D
Long post is long, so I'm gonna finish it.
You're probably correct :lol:

Afterall, Once the concept is up and the writing is developed, the character seem to came to life on its own, with its quirks showing up in the visuals (at least, I try to put the concept sketch to breathe the character)
Rivan wrote: I wondered if the setting was already agreed upon?
It's a Co-ed Catholic school in Central Europe.
Rivan wrote: Long post is long - advices
Well noted, thank you. What you have brought are certainly very valid points and we are discussing this in our current group. We are rapidly developing the character before moving in into possible storyline & conflicts (which will be very soon from the look of things)
Rivan wrote: As for the girls you proposed... As I mentioned before, I'd be against "rape as backstory". The behavioral change/delusional girl is pretty interesting, especially how the hero would cope with her... basically not being her nearly all of the time.
The writers debated long and hard in regards to this but it is ultimately we decided to go for it. It was a democratic decision (voting).
Rivan wrote: I'd avoid PTSD/survivor's guilt unless we were going completely extreme and the memories of said trauma would temporarily and drastically as well as unpredictable alter the character's behavior.
Actually among the proposed character, this particular mental affliction is one of the most popular. I think before week's end we'll get to decide which character to shortlist for the VN.
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"With words like these, we DON'T CURE patients, we make them INCURABLE"

Saint Peter Canisius, S.J., on polemical attacks against John Calvin & Melanchton

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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by micechasekittens » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:44 am

I recommend a character dealing with body dysmorphic disorder. This is when the individual views a feature or features of themselves as being repulsive when they look normal to everyone. This will not be a proto-Hanako, because no one will think she looks any different, but she thinks she is hideous (she can be quite cute actually). I have a mild version of this that I am better from. I was teased over my large nose and became mildly obsessed with how hideous I must be.

People suffering this might check the mirror constantly or avoid mirrors altogether. People with severe cases might hide from people altogether. Often they will use clothes to hide their perceived fault (ie hat, scarf, large sweater). Some pursue plastic surgery but this rarely helps their affliction. She can have freckles or is convinced that her eyes are uneven when they aren't. She will be absorbed into checking her hand mirror all the time and needs it as her coping device though it feeds into her bdd obsessing. People first assume those with bdd are just narcisitic which perhaps the character might think at first. She might constantly seek reaffirmation or deny any compliment given to her. I think she would be a great character, because there will be a lot of issues on how to interact with her and she won't fall into the cliche stereotypical depiction of those with mental disorders.

I'm intrigued by this concept and will go back and read all this thread. I am a pretty good writer (been close to getting published) and I have dealt with severe depression, suicidal feelings, and very slight bdd most of my life so I can write from experience. So I would be interested in offering my writing skills or to just brainstorm ideas together ^^.

I really don't like the idea of a psych ward though. Perhaps they can be students at a regular high school and some form a club of feeling like the oddities. Some people with problems tend to seek out others that might understand hence why the mc will notice these girls as he sees a part of himself in them or wants to help them. That way in an average school the girls and main char might have to deal with prejudice from the 'mentally normal' students. It will feel more realistic about what it is like to deal with these issues trying to navigate the social world.

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imperial.standard
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by imperial.standard » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:27 pm

micechasekittens wrote:I recommend a character dealing with body dysmorphic disorder. This is when the individual views a feature or features of themselves as being repulsive when they look normal to everyone.
This is quite interesting. We have upped a character who has similar "somatoform" which is a "Conversion disorder" so, surely this will be quite a nice addition to add as well. Thanks for advising!
micechasekittens wrote: I'm intrigued by this concept and will go back and read all this thread. I am a pretty good writer (been close to getting published) and I have dealt with severe depression, suicidal feelings, and very slight bdd most of my life so I can write from experience. So I would be interested in offering my writing skills or to just brainstorm ideas together ^^.
If you don't mind getting in as a possible editor or backup writer, it will be good! We are solidifying our concept first in a moment but as soon as this is done, I believe a second round of intake will be done. I could try and recommend you to my fellow devs.
micechasekittens wrote: I really don't like the idea of a psych ward though. Perhaps they can be students at a regular high school and some form a club of feeling like the oddities.
The lot has been cast in this sense. Besides the existence of a ward will add into the atmosphere the constant nagging feeling that they are not "normal" despite the ward's distance from the main school complex.

In any case, a new round of drafts is up and a few more to come in the last few days before we cast lot in the characters.

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"With words like these, we DON'T CURE patients, we make them INCURABLE"

Saint Peter Canisius, S.J., on polemical attacks against John Calvin & Melanchton

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ziamatt
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by ziamatt » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:07 pm

Well damn. I thought I got off easy with not having to obsessively follow Katawa Shoujo. Now I have to follow this game though.

Joking aside, this is a really interesting idea and has some serious potential. I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes.
Is Mentaru Shoujo a working title at this point, and how does it actually translate?

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Hagon
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Hagon » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:31 pm

Heh... Actually in my mind it look like that.
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Haha, just kidding.


I don't know how it would turn out... anyway, I'm going to look at it with all my attention, it may prove to be quite good.
I'll play it.
"What lie in the mind of somebody stepping on the fragile line between reason and insanity is something others can't understand."

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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Mirage_GSM » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:08 pm

ziamatt wrote:Is Mentaru Shoujo a working title at this point, and how does it actually translate?
No idea how set they are on the title, but it would translate to "Mental Girl."
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by kosherbacon » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:17 pm

It's a working title for now, it seems.

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Joshp9690
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Joshp9690 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:28 pm

I'd LOVE to see this work out.
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Bix » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:30 pm

What if... now stick with me here... it was a game with a female protagonist, and all the love interests were male?
**Library 99% complete.**
1. Emi *Done*
2. Rin *Done*
3. Shizune *Done*
4. Hanako *Done*
5. Lilly *Done*

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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Anon708354675123 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:22 pm

Bix wrote:What if... now stick with me here... it was a game with a female protagonist, and all the love interests were male?
Speaking as a yuri fan, what about having a female protagonist without making the love interests male?

Oh, and an idea I had: what about including someone with heliophobia?

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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Joshp9690 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:41 pm

Why not just have a choice between a male or a female protagonist?
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Pl4t0 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:08 pm

Joshp9690 wrote:Why not just have a choice between a male or a female protagonist?
Brilliant.

The only problem being, if the authors want to create an immersive and believable world, would the girls all really react the same way to the advances of another female as to a male?

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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by kosherbacon » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:09 pm

Man, that would be a complicated-ass VN to write.

That said, there needs to be more VNs with yuri potential other than outright porn games.

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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Joshp9690 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:16 pm

Hey, I'm not a developer, It was just an idea.
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