Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

A forum for general discussion of the game: Open to all punters
User avatar
scott1and
Posts: 381
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:32 pm
Location: I just don't know anymore...

Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by scott1and » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:14 pm

laamentio wrote:
Ockbald wrote: Very well I share a similar feeling.

However do you think it would be adequate the name you proposed? KS got some bad press because of it's name, even if it did attract several fans over the net. Though I don't mind either way.
Katawa shoujo had bad press for everything. The name, the topic, the relation with 4chan, the H content, being a VN.
I didn't like the name proposed, but I don't think that the name will define the success or not of this product (if is ever released). The problem itself could be that this work is a kind of spin off of the KS.
That's like the Damocles' sword over this project.
I agree with the above, but looking into a name that is not offensive or possibly positive might the give the game a better footing from the start, as it is more edgy and taboo that KS was. Even though KS has turned the negative thoughts about itself around, that won't stop a much bigger backlash if this game has a somewhat offensive title.

Might I suggest having a name that doesn't involve " something shoujo" as it will more likely, even by a little bit, give the game a better image. I mean, what would you see as more taboo, a game called the equivalent of "Mental Girls" or one called "States of Mind" for example,
Image

User avatar
Asteru
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 8:41 pm

Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Asteru » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:44 pm

Hey. Found this thread, and I have to admit I haven't read all of it, so I don't know if this has been addressed.

This could potentially be a very interesting project if done right--- but please don't lump in autism with mental disabilities. As someone who has two brothers with both mild and severe autism, it irritates me to see the suggestion that someone with autism might be in a mental ward. And it's sad, because without present research-- that's usually exactly what happened to autistic persons, because people didn't understand how to work with it. Unless you're out to make some sort of social commentary about the way the world treats developmentally disabled persons- (because to be honest, the world still isn't perfect in this respect. Especially in the more obscure parts of Florida, where I live. We'll be hard pressed to get my severely autistic, nonverbal brother into a group home after he's 18, and still qualify as his guardians. He'd be a ward of the state and at that point they'd do whatever is cheapest to keep him, not what's best for him.)

There are even recorded incidents of people like my brothers being thrown in -jail- and then passed around and raped, and especially if they are nonverbal they cannot protest or escape this kind of treatment.

Pardon if my tangent here is all over the place--- it is a sensitive topic for me.

Overall, I don't think autism should be lumped into this kind of project, since for people in my situation, we recognize this as... well... majorly insulting? Autism is a developmental disability- it manifests itself with behavioral -symptoms-. Case im point, you can be autistic while simultaneously not being insane. Unless the autistic girl is placed there due to some tragic oversight in the nature of her disability-- which could be a very interesting plot point, if you do it right -- I don't think you should try to feature autism alongside a slew of actual mental disabilities.

Edit: And I do not say "actual mental disabilities" as if to lessen the impact of what autism is. Living with autism is hard. I should know that. What I mean is I don't think it belongs in the sort of setting where you might see a whole lot of people who are clinically -insane-. That is the exact opposite of the kind of environment you want someone diagnosed with autism to be around in.

Edit: I guess I just want to make sure that this is handled delicately, is the thing, if it's handled at all? Is including a girl with autism still possibly an issue? I know my post was pretty knee-jerk, and as of now I am reading the rest of the thread, but yeah.
Last edited by Asteru on Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ockbald
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:11 am

Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Ockbald » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:51 pm

I really like the design of the new girls.

User avatar
imperial.standard
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:37 am

Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by imperial.standard » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:43 pm

HONEYMUFFINS, this is your call!

Anyway, first things first,
Asteru wrote:Hey. Found this thread, and I have to admit I haven't read all of it, so I don't know if this has been addressed.

This could potentially be a very interesting project if done right--- but please don't lump in autism with mental disabilities. ...it irritates me to see the suggestion that someone with autism might be in a mental ward. ...
I apologize for not making things more clear - apparently as time goes by and we have more and more members joining our team, we have more or less moved from the concept of "Mentally Disabled" persons to date and in fact goes in the route of "Behavior Problems that may or may not result in mental/development disability". As such, we have grown to move the concept setting from a crudely placement of a mental ward to be a Highschool specializing in behaviour/development problems WITH an attached dormitory and psychiatry ward. We even have specialist (by this we mean a practicing medical professional) to advise our team to portray the character better and accurately.
Asteru wrote: Edit: I guess I just want to make sure that this is handled delicately, is the thing, if it's handled at all? Is including a girl with autism still possibly an issue? I know my post was pretty knee-jerk, and as of now I am reading the rest of the thread, but yeah.
In fact we are discussing on how to present an autism correctly in our other forums. We have two high ranking members who are Higher Functioning autistics and they also share their experience and opinion in addition to the input by our "in-house" medical professional ;)

But really, thanks for the input. Let me know if you are interested in joining our project and we can use your contribution.
Ockbald wrote:I really like the design of the new girls.
Thank you! Liable to change though, just got commented for Katja Belova and I will do some of these later on.
Image

"With words like these, we DON'T CURE patients, we make them INCURABLE"

Saint Peter Canisius, S.J., on polemical attacks against John Calvin & Melanchton

User avatar
Halkure
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:52 am

Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Halkure » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:54 pm

I'm not reading this thread too optimistically.. but I felt the same about the very first KS dev forum and they turned out alright.

I think this project has a much higher potential for going wrong or being misinterpreted though. I would only play this if it explored a different, interesting perspective on reality that had some value.

Somebody made a good point regarding character design representing depression too. It's probably wise to avoid objectifying a mental disorder. Like you would avoid the plague. You're dealing with something way, way more subjective than missing limbs. Character will probably be better represented through subtle details visually while leaving the rest to the writing.

It might also be worth considering keeping the game pretty short. Stable relationships need stable people, I think. But they can be unstable growing or learning experiences too. That book A Million Little Pieces comes to mind, although it was a rather dark atmosphere with destructive characters. Wouldn't read again. Please write something happier than that. :p

I'm encouraged at least by the way imperial handled that last comment re: autism and the shift to behaviors. My crits may be all be on outdated ideas. Good luck!

User avatar
imperial.standard
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:37 am

Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by imperial.standard » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:29 am

Halkure wrote: I'm encouraged at least by the way imperial handled that last comment re: autism and the shift to behaviors. My crits may be all be on outdated ideas. Good luck!
Thank you! I think our team is pretty dedicated in making this happen and as everyday goes by, the concept became more and more mature. I myself had not been excited about something like this for a long time. This project is both a double sided sword but a challenge for all of us to get it done correctly.

Image
Some progress on character designs.

We're cooking a few more concepts before the weekend and continuing our recruitment drive to make this happen :)
Image

"With words like these, we DON'T CURE patients, we make them INCURABLE"

Saint Peter Canisius, S.J., on polemical attacks against John Calvin & Melanchton

laamentio
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:01 pm

Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by laamentio » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:40 am

imperial.standard wrote:Thank you! I think our team is pretty dedicated in making this happen and as everyday goes by, the concept became more and more mature. I myself had not been excited about something like this for a long time. This project is both a double sided sword but a challenge for all of us to get it done correctly.

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj6 ... ft-001.jpg
Some progress on character designs.

We're cooking a few more concepts before the weekend and continuing our recruitment drive to make this happen :)
We are hopping so much from you guys.
The designs look nice, the story feels promising, please don't rush... make properly rather than quickly. We'll be waiting.

Mildly Mentally Disabled

Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Mildly Mentally Disabled » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:36 am

I think you would probably be best off using mental disabilities that are removed from personality. If you have disabilities that contribute too heavily to the character, then you risk defining the character by their disability- something KS was excellent at avoiding, since the characters are all relatively easily removed from their disability without becoming inconsistent. Rin having arms wouldn't make her that much different of a person, and Hanako's burns could be anything that's a visible sign of difference that shocks people, the fact that they're burns isn't important. If you make a character that's heavily OCD, however, you run the risk of their personality being lost under the traits that OCD causes.

It might be best to stick with conditions that are largely "alien" to the consciousness, like MS or ataxia, or affect ability directly, like memory conditions or learning disabilities. You also have to be real fuckin' careful about labelling what requires someone to go to this school- as someone pointed out earlier, most people with Asperger's syndrome DO NOT need to be put in a separate school to function, and people will be very upset if you cast them as helpless or unable to fit into polite society. This is especially a problem with learning disabilities. Speaking as someone who has a condition that is sometimes classified as a learning disability, all the help I needed to get through school was provided by the normal public school I attended through Additional Support for Learning (essentially Special Ed) and it was not necessary for me to be separated from classmates. This also applies to how severe you make conditions- you can say "it's an extraordinarily severe case" all you want but if you cast someone with ADHD as being unable to continue a single task or thought for more than five seconds, you will upset actual suffers by exaggerating the effects.

Remember too that KS had a nurse on staff to try and maintain accuracy- make sure you know what you're talking about or I guarantee no one will be okay with it.

Also, I honestly don't have any faith that it won't be horrendously offensive based on the designs so far, but honestly most people are going to expect that and you're just going to have to try and prove them wrong.

User avatar
TheKingOfFacade
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:09 am
Location: England

Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by TheKingOfFacade » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:26 am

imperial.standard wrote:
Halkure wrote: I'm encouraged at least by the way imperial handled that last comment re: autism and the shift to behaviors. My crits may be all be on outdated ideas. Good luck!
Thank you! I think our team is pretty dedicated in making this happen and as everyday goes by, the concept became more and more mature. I myself had not been excited about something like this for a long time. This project is both a double sided sword but a challenge for all of us to get it done correctly.

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj6 ... ft-001.jpg
Some progress on character designs.

We're cooking a few more concepts before the weekend and continuing our recruitment drive to make this happen :)
With respect, the only things I see in this picture are Hanako, Emi, ??? and Rin.

User avatar
imperial.standard
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:37 am

Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by imperial.standard » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:02 pm

TheKingOfFacade wrote: With respect, the only things I see in this picture are Hanako, Emi, ??? and Rin.
Our design is still fluid and growing. We are now discussing the main target girls to select as well. Those were the first draft. Second drafts and third ones are coming before we finalize the target girls.

Image

Image

Image

Image
Image

"With words like these, we DON'T CURE patients, we make them INCURABLE"

Saint Peter Canisius, S.J., on polemical attacks against John Calvin & Melanchton

User avatar
TheKingOfFacade
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:09 am
Location: England

Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by TheKingOfFacade » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:21 pm

imperial.standard wrote: -Image snip-
Whilst I stick to my previous statement, the most recent images you've provided are excellent; Specifically the third.

maymay
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:15 am

Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by maymay » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:30 pm

Reading those character descriptions I had a funny image of a character with some form of OCD. Every room you entered she would rapidly flick on and off the light switch, and she'd be perpetually worried about having left the stove on in her dorm, despite not even having one.

Ockbald
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:11 am

Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Ockbald » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:11 pm

Loving everybit of these concepts. Specially the men. Seriously you rock with the men.

millea

Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by millea » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:16 pm

agreed, your males are awesome <3 ever thought of making this into an otome game?

User avatar
imperial.standard
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:37 am

Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by imperial.standard » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:41 pm

millea wrote:agreed, your males are awesome <3 ever thought of making this into an otome game?
No. The characters are not my own design from ground down you see. We have a writing team for that, and I am only churning out early concepts for that so we can adopt the look of character involved.
Image

"With words like these, we DON'T CURE patients, we make them INCURABLE"

Saint Peter Canisius, S.J., on polemical attacks against John Calvin & Melanchton

Post Reply