Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

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ShadowB
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by ShadowB » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:17 am

Aka wrote:TL;DR - No. that was not why I played KS to begin with. Still isn't.
I would think that most people here weren't exactly after their cripple-porn fix. KS is indeed just a great game, and while featuring physical disabilities doesn't necessarily make it better, it's a good chance to view a sizable portion of the population differently and seems to have led to discussion beyond the scope of the original game. If this team can put together a similarly great game, they can also help shine some light on a different section of society in the process. Don't need to want to play it because you're fascinated by psychology, just be willing to play another great game while learning.
I really hate saying things like this, but it sometimes feels like shining light on some conditions is really needed. Although I agree that the original character designs offered were a bit too severe, there's a large gap between "not capable of romantic relationships" and "normal", and a significant challenge for those people can be forming relationships while not feeling compatible with society. The founders of this project have already softened up a bit, so hopefully people will give them a chance to settle on a story outline that's both respectable to the conditions featured and feasible for a VN of this nature.

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Aka
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Aka » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:46 am

You have a point, but it does feel like this idea(?) puts too much emphasis on the "disability" part.

ShadowB
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by ShadowB » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:59 am

KS started with an emphasis on physical disabilities, because when there's just a basic outline there's not much else to focus on. It would be a long time and a lot of story development before it would be done, so if they have strong writers and project leads it shouldn't be an issue in the end.

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Aka
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Aka » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:18 am

Then in that case, I guess my opinion hasn't really changed very much, just the result.
I never really saw the disabilities as a selling point for KS, I just played it because the name "Four Leaf Studios" seemed rather... artistic(..?) to me(a fan/enthusiast of Azuma Kiyohiko).

So I played it for the sake of playing it.

Then I guess it would be the same in this case.
I'd just try it, for the sake of trying it.

But after KS, it feels like a VN made to be (in its image/its sequel/its successor) would ruin some of the majesty(?) of KS.

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gunlocksp
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by gunlocksp » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:20 pm

Aka wrote:Then in that case, I guess my opinion hasn't really changed very much, just the result.
I never really saw the disabilities as a selling point for KS, I just played it because the name "Four Leaf Studios" seemed rather... artistic(..?) to me(a fan/enthusiast of Azuma Kiyohiko).

So I played it for the sake of playing it.

Then I guess it would be the same in this case.
I'd just try it, for the sake of trying it.

But after KS, it feels like a VN made to be (in its image/its sequel/its successor) would ruin some of the majesty(?) of KS.
No it won't... This is like calling Titan Quest a Diablo clone or Lord of Arcana a Phantasy Online/Monster Hunter/God Eater rip-off. =.="
Instead, you use those games as a foundation... adding new elements/functions along the way. This is true for any good games. That said I won't be surprise if KS sparked some sort of... er... "craze" like Touhou did... lolxxx

Besides, if the dev manages to come up with an original/awesome storyline, then yes I would very much like to play it... :D

nyttyn
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by nyttyn » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:48 pm

I would have to say it depends on what disabilities you bring to the table.

No matter what, though, such a VN is going to be extremely disturbing to read at times. I had to go to a special class for the mentally disabled for one year in high school.

not. fun.

Hit me with a PM, though, if you would like to hear my experiences. Wouldn't mind contributing.
Why does the OST feature so much piano, despite the fact that not even a single piano exists in the entire game!?

themocaw
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by themocaw » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:46 pm

My biggest problem with a mental disability VN is the issue of consent. Sexual abuse of the mentally disabled is a serious real-world issue. Any heroines would have to be high functioning enough to avoid this pitfall, otherwise the game is going to end up with a creepy "tard rape" vibe to it.

The second major issue is making sure not to fetishize or focus too much on the disability. All of the KS routes do this well, but Emi's, I think, is the best example: Her story could still be told, with a few tweaks, even if she hadn't lost her legs in the accident: the real focus is on the emotional trauma she suffered losing her father.

I'm leery of this concept, but then again, I did the same when I first heard about KS, and look how it turned out. I do feel this project has the possibility of being incredibly emotionally draining both to write and play, however: Imagine playing a game where all routes had the emotional devastation of Rin's route.

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kosherbacon
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by kosherbacon » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:45 pm

For what it's worth, it does not appear that consent and "tard rape" will be an issue. Thanks for your concern, though! :)

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newnar
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by newnar » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:54 pm

I'm sorry if I make alot of people unhappy with this post. This first struck me as an awesome idea, but after reading 4 pages of posts I'm not too impressed.

Firstly, what's this whole obsession with location? And why does it have to be a rendition of some place in real life? I think all the discussion on whether to use Vienna or Moscow or Budapest is completely pointless. Katawa Shojo didn't specify the exact location, nor were the architecture exceedingly exquisite or anything like that. But that didn't stop KS from being a complete hit. What I am trying to say is, physical location is not worth discussing since this is supposed to be fiction.

Secondly, I find the ideas on actual setting bland and boring. If I'm mot wrong, there're only 2, psychiatric ward and normal school, of which the former is mostly ditched. Alot of VNs already have high schools as a setting and to be truthful, it is really stale. KS's Yamaku High is also a school but its special features as well as the abnormal way Hisao ended up there helped created a new atmosphere about the place. Mentaru Shojo can very well leap out of the whole high school craze. Why not at the workplace? Or at a tertiary job enhancement training course? Or a charity volunteering drive? Or even, career attachments? The thing to note is that IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A PLACE EXCLUSIVE TO PEOPLE WITH MENTAL ILLNESSES. They could have perfectly normal colleagues, friends or families. Depicting their interaction with other normal people can easily be used as a form of introduction to the character instead of going, "Hi, how are you and what's wrong with you?"
I am a guy.
I sometimes talk like Rin Tezuka.
I am in love with Hanako Ikezawa.
NoOne3 wrote:Imagine a male Rin who secretly likes Hanako.
this
YES I AM. DEAL WITH IT.

Saucium
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Saucium » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:53 am

Yes, I would play it. Psych major here, plus I have a "relative" who is bipolar...

Lunar Archivist
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Lunar Archivist » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:05 pm

I'd probably give it a shot, but I'm not sure how much of it I could take. In real life, I've dealt with a bipolar girl with depression and serious daddy/abandonment issues who was sexually assaulted twice. After seven years of that garbage, I'm not interested in reliving anything remotely similar to that emotional/psychological roller coaster ride into the bowels of Hell.

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Harlequin13
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Harlequin13 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:43 am

Lunar Archivist wrote:I'd probably give it a shot, but I'm not sure how much of it I could take. In real life, I've dealt with a bipolar girl with depression and serious daddy/abandonment issues who was sexually assaulted twice. After seven years of that garbage, I'm not interested in reliving anything remotely similar to that emotional/psychological roller coaster ride into the bowels of Hell.
Hihi, to think that a game would have difficulty that isn't related to actual gameplay difficulty... Now that is brilliant. The game is difficult to play because it's emotionally draining and "takes you down to hell". Haha, excellent. I love it. It's a CHALLENGE to play the game.

Like, you have to practise yourself in order beat it. Mental preparation.

Well, I suppose KS has abit of that, depending on the route.

haitechan
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by haitechan » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:15 pm

I'm a little wary of sterotypes surronding mental disabilities. But I was pretty happy with how KS portrayed disabilities so why not?
I have BPD and my sister is bipolar and some people believe that it's just being moody. Not at all.
In my case, my emotions were like a tornado. I could be happy and at the next minute, be depressed. I hurt some people because of that and felt terrible because I couldn't help it, it was like my emotions were controlling me. It took me a big effort to finish college but right now, I'm a graduated economist and after 6 months, I finally got a job. It took me years of therapy, family support and medication but I made it.
My sister suffered from various episodes of depression that lasted months and then she was hyper the next month. She still struggles to finish college but with therapy, she's getting there. She finally found the carrier she likes so it's a huge progress there.
Oh, and a friend had split personality. It was a little scary at first because he just got disconnected and later didn't remembered a thing he did but he's well right now. Not 100% better but those episodes are less and less frequent right now.
So, I guess it could be a great idea. I think that there is a wide spectrum of mental disabilities so there is lots of room to research.

Chronopolize
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Chronopolize » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:34 am

I don't know, it feels like if this were done perfectly (in the one particular direction I can envision), it would be extremely difficult to traverse and deeply unsettling (perhaps uncanny is a better word). In KS, characters had motivations for their actions, while in MS, there would be an added layer of turbulence. Add to that, the fact that mental abilities can be much harder to gauge and predict, as well as there just being less known about them. I would introduce more decisions in the game then were present in KS, but have those decision have mostly toned down implications. I think such a VN should be more focused on the present, and slightly less on the backstories of the character, just to make it possible for the player. I think, the key here is to produce a memorable environment in-game environment; the core of the VN must be intriguing. A more intellectual/philosphical tone could be given to it, rather than KS's overwhelming emotional. Just a thought.

The numerous other complications have already been largely listed by other people. Good luck! Make the game with the open-minded player in mind, i suppose.
Harlequin13 wrote:
Lunar Archivist wrote:I'd probably give it a shot, but I'm not sure how much of it I could take. In real life, I've dealt with a bipolar girl with depression and serious daddy/abandonment issues who was sexually assaulted twice. After seven years of that garbage, I'm not interested in reliving anything remotely similar to that emotional/psychological roller coaster ride into the bowels of Hell.
Hihi, to think that a game would have difficulty that isn't related to actual gameplay difficulty... Now that is brilliant. The game is difficult to play because it's emotionally draining and "takes you down to hell". Haha, excellent. I love it. It's a CHALLENGE to play the game.

Like, you have to practise yourself in order beat it. Mental preparation.

Well, I suppose KS has abit of that, depending on the route.
Exactly. KS is about the body. MS is about the mind. The mindscrew has to be a natrual consequence, and not just randomly stuck in there. As with the difficulty.

Neradnoglig
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Neradnoglig » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:13 am

I would.

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