Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

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Zay
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Zay » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:08 pm

I find this idea intriguing!

a few thoughts: There are secondary schools (Colleges) in the US that cater to students with mental disabilities, I believe there is one in Utah that is specifically catering to higher-functioning autistic people who need just a little more structure than the typical college dorm situation. (not easily finding it's website though)

Another idea for how the protagonists meet is a support group for young adults with mental disabilities... organized by their families or therapist perhaps? I remember watching a romantic movie where the protagonists are autistic, they meet in a group the main character developed to help people like himself meet other people and make friends.

I like the idea of having the VN set somewhere other than a school.

If there is need, I would love to volunteer my time as an editor.

Ryto
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Ryto » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:16 pm

Zay wrote:If there is need, I would love to volunteer my time as an editor.
I have always loved editing things, so I too volunteer my time to edit.
100% Complete.
So here's my ranking:
Hanako>Lilly>Rin>=Emi>Shizune

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Merlyn_LeRoy
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Merlyn_LeRoy » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:27 pm

Yet another idea; WIlliams syndrome. Basically, people with WS are the source for elf folklore just like people with dwarfism are the source for dwarf folklore. They look like elves (including, sometimes, slightly pointed ears, wide mouth with thin lips, starry eyes), there is usually some mild mental retardation, they are extremely socially gregarious (children with WS will just go up to complete strangers and hug them and say they love them), and often very musical. It's more common than dwarfism but harder to spot.

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Honeymuffin
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Honeymuffin » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:39 pm

I am adamant about two things for this project; we should not touch rape, and we should not touch retardation.

Male writers and rape just don't mix. No matter how sensitively you treat it, some will get up in arms over the very THOUGHT that you, as a man, could successfully write about the mental state of a female rape victim. It's just too thorny a social issue, and we're already tackling some deep, taboo stuff already.

No matter how we portray retardation, even mild retardation, some people will automatically assume that the main character is taking advantage. More than any other disorder, people with mental retardation are considered to be mentally immature, and therefore unable to consistently make good decisions for themselves. It has the potential to be viewed as negatively as an adult-on-child relationship were it included in the final VN.

Now, emotional immaturity is fine. Relationships involving emotional immaturity have formed the basis for some of the greatest love stories of all time.

Ockbald
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Ockbald » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:53 pm

Honeymuffin wrote:I am adamant about two things for this project; we should not touch rape, and we should not touch retardation.

Male writers and rape just don't mix. No matter how sensitively you treat it, some will get up in arms over the very THOUGHT that you, as a man, could successfully write about the mental state of a female rape victim. It's just too thorny a social issue, and we're already tackling some deep, taboo stuff already.

No matter how we portray retardation, even mild retardation, some people will automatically assume that the main character is taking advantage. More than any other disorder, people with mental retardation are considered to be mentally immature, and therefore unable to consistently make good decisions for themselves. It has the potential to be viewed as negatively as an adult-on-child relationship were it included in the final VN.

Now, emotional immaturity is fine. Relationships involving emotional immaturity have formed the basis for some of the greatest love stories of all time.
Could you share with us your ideas?

I mean let's put this in perspective: The entire desire for KS was born from a sketch, with interesting designs from RAITA, that happened to be about crippled girls, a quite bold and may I say disturbing subject for a eroge, that managed to work out due to good writting.

I honestly feel that making KS but now with "mental disability" isn't the route to go. What do you think? I personally feel if this project is to become it's own thing, it needs to try to be just a version of KS and something else. Inspired even, but unique. Now I've seen a rough draft posted earlier today and even with my criticism I found potential in there. I really wish to hear what do you think about this issues.

laamentio
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by laamentio » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:09 pm

(I skip some page in the thread please forgive me)
Ok... the place is the more difficult point here I don't want to abandon the idea of Japan neither High School.

Here my Idea.

The protagonist is a High school student with hikikomori tendencies. Sometimes skip the school and so far don't have psychological treatment.

Has a friend male who Doesn't care about anything.jpg and is only a nuisance.

Has a female schoolmate who is Sociopathy/psychopathy manipulative one. In one opportunity exchange words with the protagonist and convinces him that there are some kind of organization behind him just to play with him. Tells him about a forum of conspiracies and there he is put in contact with other people who believe in conspiration.

In this forum there's a unknown guy who tries to use him to help other people, telling X user is an resistance figther.

From there like KS he can contact every character in the story.

So thanks to this we don't have Hospital, neuropsychiatric, prison or anything.

Her Sociopathy/psychopathy schoolmate is one of the heroines. In the forum he can contact to a depressed heroine (maybe with some panic attacks) etcetera.

I can make some research to I know some people in a neuropsychiatric that would be handy explaining what is deal with a psychic problem... but In my mind this VN would be very dark.

If wanna discuss more just PMme.

boredism
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by boredism » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:13 pm

Depressed Girl / Bandaged Babe / Suicidal Babe
Image
Name: Katja Böhm
Background: She came from a broken family; the father had a failed career and committed numerous domestic and sexual abuse to both his wife and daughter before killed by his wife - and then the wife committed suicide shortly afterwards. With no relatives willing to take her in she began to show signs of severe depression, tendency to inflict injury on herself and has tried to commit suicide more than once. The state then ordered her to be committed to St Stephen's Gymnasium for both observation, help and ultimately cure her current condition. At this college she will meet the main character who would bring one of the biggest change in her life.

Head Injury Girl / Lolita
Image
Name: Louise von Habsburg
Background: Born as Agatha Schneider, she suffered a terrible traffic accident. One of the debris lodged itself in her head and is too risky to be removed by surgery. The head trauma resulted in her behavioral change and from that moment one she is convinced that she is a long lost member of the Habsburg family and started to dress in Lolita fashion, calling herself "Habsburg Rose". She wore a hat to cover the sticking head injury and one thing that may severely upset this normally unflappable cheery girl is to have her remove her hat. Her biggest fear is to have the head corrective surgery done as it may proceed to destroy her current personality and turn her into something she doesn't know.
I think the bandages on Katja are a bit excessive, and I doubt that a character like that would allow her bandages to be so visible. Try not to bandage them up like a mummy. Instead give her a sport wrist band or watch where she hides those cut marks. Her back story is a bit much though. You'll have to deal with it very carefully and elegantly. I doubt that she will be able to talk about such a past as much, and the MC (and in turn the reader) might get mixed messages about it which might not be a good thing.

Louise seems like a fun character but very distant a character. You can keep the whole gothic look but tone it down a bit. Allow her unique attire to blend in with the school uniform a bit more. Use the current outfit more as a separate casual outfit. You might want to think a bit on why she stuck herself in Habsburg a bit, that is not a name you come up with randomly. Also the hat is too tall.

Also Bipolar is a good one, cause there is medication. The whole situation of should I use medication to conform or should I stay away from it to be myself.
Learning disabilities are considered mental exceptionalities so there are a ton there you can use as well. Though they might not be as critical as the others.
Also I can tell you these kids are very interesting and fun to work with. Many of these can strive in high places if you can point them in the right direction, you might want to put in some of their parent support as it is very important.

About the school, I think the school with a ward on the side is a good idea, just might want to specify a bit more on how the school works. First of all, no smoking please. Your teachers are quite interesting characters but not realistic in a school for exceptionalities, the hiring of teachers are significantly stricter for these kinds of schools. Assuming there is a ward you might want to create a doctor character as well. From working at special education high schools, I think you might want special educational assistants for specific students, or another possibility is having two teachers in a class, one there for the main course, the other as an assistant. These schools do like to emphasize on a good environment you will need to help enhance the sense of community in the school as well, and put some emphasis on it like KS does.

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Honeymuffin
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Honeymuffin » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:29 pm

I'm quite attached to the idea of exploring mental disorders to the same extent that KS explored physical ones. I want to portray the people who hold those disorders in a sympathetic light without inspiring pity; just like the physically disabled, they are human beings who are capable of great things. They just happen to have an obstacle or two more to overcome than the average person.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I want to capture KS' emotional impact. If Mentaru Shoujo turns out to be different from KS in every other aspect I will still be satisfied, but emotional impact and respectful treatment of the characters are my highest priorities. I suppose it would also be nice to uphold the standards of writing/art/musical quality that KS set as well, but that is secondary to my first point. All other aspects of KS, such as game structure/setting/interface matter very little to me in terms of preserving them in MS.

My comrades may feel differently. This is fine; we'll hash out those details as they come up on our forums.

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traitor
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by traitor » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:52 pm

I came here looking for shits and giggles, instead I found developed character ideas
you people make me sick, I'm going to puke butterflies

I've also heard a lot of horror stories from guys who dated girls that cut themselves, most of their stories involve bad end. Perhaps you could explore on that?

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imperial.standard
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by imperial.standard » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:41 pm

Mirage_GSM wrote:If those character designs are first drafts, I see real promise for a finished product.
I find this mentally uplifting. Thank you for the feedback, guys...
Image

"With words like these, we DON'T CURE patients, we make them INCURABLE"

Saint Peter Canisius, S.J., on polemical attacks against John Calvin & Melanchton

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The Local Hentai
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by The Local Hentai » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:18 pm

I think it would feel wrong. Especially if there are some hardcore h scenes in it. Because KS does have physically disabled girls in it, mentally they are pretty much sane. Dating a girl with a mental disability would lead me to question if she's actually all together to understand what's happening to her and what she is doing with me.

Reminds me of those fucked up videos with people working at a facility for the mentally infirm, beating up on the patients. They were just crying but not really doing anything. Watching it felt wrong, I think it would give me the same feeling.

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Rykthrall
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Rykthrall » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:32 pm

Hey guys, I'm a member affiliated with the creation of 'another' VN inspired by KS. I must say, all of these designs look incredible, do you believe there is any chance of us working together? Currently I know that Honeymuffin is looking into our project somewhat but I'm not sure what the rest of you think. Do you believe we could work together?
Currently we have a (mostly) finalised setting and several character ideas but these are for physical disabilities rather than mental ones.
I'm somewhat unwilling to openly show our setting idea publicly, so just message me on this forum and I'll forward the setting to you.

....And if we do end up working together, I suppose we shouldn't worry about one of our ideas overruling yours or vice versa. If we have to, we'll make 2 VNs.

TankToast

Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by TankToast » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:49 pm

The Local Hentai wrote:I think it would feel wrong. Especially if there are some hardcore h scenes in it. Because KS does have physically disabled girls in it, mentally they are pretty much sane. Dating a girl with a mental disability would lead me to question if she's actually all together to understand what's happening to her and what she is doing with me.

Reminds me of those fucked up videos with people working at a facility for the mentally infirm, beating up on the patients. They were just crying but not really doing anything. Watching it felt wrong, I think it would give me the same feeling.
I agree, this is basically why I'm not liking the idea. If the characters are as damaged as the ones suggested it doesn't seem like they are in any position for a healthy relationship. Serious mental issues need a lot of treatment and I wouldn't like the feel of a VN where the characters' healing is complicated by romance and especially a sexual relationship. A patient needs to focus on taking care of themselves well before someone else. And someone else should never make it their personal responsibility to take care of a patient.
I think this kind of premise would give me the feeling that the player is trying to "fix" the characters...

Also, the chick with the debris in her head...what the heck? They could at least cut it level with her head, maybe put a plate over it. As it is, it's freaking hilarious.

Ockbald
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by Ockbald » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:15 am

Honeymuffin wrote:I'm quite attached to the idea of exploring mental disorders to the same extent that KS explored physical ones. I want to portray the people who hold those disorders in a sympathetic light without inspiring pity; just like the physically disabled, they are human beings who are capable of great things. They just happen to have an obstacle or two more to overcome than the average person.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I want to capture KS' emotional impact. If Mentaru Shoujo turns out to be different from KS in every other aspect I will still be satisfied, but emotional impact and respectful treatment of the characters are my highest priorities. I suppose it would also be nice to uphold the standards of writing/art/musical quality that KS set as well, but that is secondary to my first point. All other aspects of KS, such as game structure/setting/interface matter very little to me in terms of preserving them in MS.

My comrades may feel differently. This is fine; we'll hash out those details as they come up on our forums.
Very well I share a similar feeling.

However do you think it would be adequate the name you proposed? KS got some bad press because of it's name, even if it did attract several fans over the net. Though I don't mind either way.

laamentio
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Re: Would you play a "mental disability" VN similar to KS?

Post by laamentio » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:26 am

Ockbald wrote: Very well I share a similar feeling.

However do you think it would be adequate the name you proposed? KS got some bad press because of it's name, even if it did attract several fans over the net. Though I don't mind either way.
Katawa shoujo had bad press for everything. The name, the topic, the relation with 4chan, the H content, being a VN.
I didn't like the name proposed, but I don't think that the name will define the success or not of this product (if is ever released). The problem itself could be that this work is a kind of spin off of the KS.
That's like the Damocles' sword over this project.

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