If they were "normal"

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Prussian Blue

Re: If they were "normal"

Post by Prussian Blue » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:04 pm

Guest Poster wrote:I'm having the impression that your reasoning is "Me = autistic & Rin = autistic", so if someone says "Rin = insane" that would mean that person is also saying "Me = insane". But I don't think anybody's trying to insult you.
Precisely the reason why I'm letting Drake have the last word, I don't want to cross any lines I shouldn't even approach. That, and as a disabled person I find his view on disabilities being "something that needs to be fixed" rather offensive, specially considering that Drake himself has autism (which is classed as a disability). And that this discussion belongs to its own thread and not here, if it belongs anywhere in the KS forums at all.

Whatever. I have no further business in this thread. Have a nice day, dudes and dudettes.

Guest

Re: If they were "normal"

Post by Guest » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:53 pm

Guest Poster wrote: Shizune: I can never shake the feeling that Shizune's disability had a lot of influence on the way her personality developed. Due her family never learning sign language, I have a feeling Shizune lived a very isolated life where, if she wanted to interact with people, she had to drag them in. This probably contributed a lot to her forceful personality. I think Shizune would be more easy-going if she weren't deaf-mute, though she'd retain her playfulness and her competitive streak would probably resemble Hanako's more.

Come to think of it, Shizune and Lilly, as much as they'd hate to admit it, share several core personality traits. Both are strong-willed, greatly value independance, never shun responsibility, have a hidden playful side and aren't shy about doing a bit of manipulation if they feel the ends justify it. I wager that without their disabilities, they'd probably be a lot closer with each other, maybe even close friends.
This. Believe it or not I actually feel bad for Shizune - her family didn't even bother to learn sign language (whereas Hisao was near-fluent in, what, a matter of months?) and just seemed to generally not give a shit. No effort with communication would have a negative effect on a hearing child's development - with a young deaf girl who doesn't have any friends, can't communicate with the majority of the world without writing on a notepad and having a massive jerk of a dad who spent thousands on trying to force her to talk? Sounds like a pretty lonely existence, and one that shaped Shizune into who she is. No wonder she latched onto Misha the way she did, and later on, Hisao - Misha and Hisao were people who were genuinely interested in getting to know Shizune for who she was.

Makes her bad ending that more sad, if you ask me.

I also think that if Shizune was hearing and Lilly could see, the two would have a much better relationship especially as Shizune probably wouldn't be as intense as she is. Her dad would still be a jackass, but she'd probably be less isolated throughout life and wouldn't feel the need to be so forceful.

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Aust Kyzor
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:30 pm

Re: If they were "normal"

Post by Aust Kyzor » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:32 pm

What the hell happened to this thread?
Manual breathing activated!

Lilly=Emi>>>Hanako=Shizune=Rin=Misha

In terms of STORY, on the other hand - so far:
Lilly's>Emi's>>>>Rin's>>>>>>>>Shizune's>Hanako's

Complete: Hanako, Rin, Shizune, Emi, Lilly
What now? Now I cry over how beautiful the whole thing was.

vAnon

Re: If they were "normal"

Post by vAnon » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:51 pm

People clearly didn't pay attention in the Rin path...
Just because someone has been shaped by their experiences to act differently than the norm doesn't mean one has some sort of inherent mental defect.
If you pay attention during her path, several key pieces of information are revealed:
- She had no arms from birth.
- Turned to art at a young age.
- Had no friends (kids are mean. No arms = no-one plays with you.)

What this means for Rin's development SHOULD be obvious:
- Very little socialization. (Usage of verbal communication)
- Very little practice with words. (i.e. writing. Why don't you write a novel with no arms.)
- Preference for thinking in IMAGES rather than words. Reinforced through art practice. (Some people do this, it is very natural to assume you would turn to this if you COULDN'T think in words very well. For Rin this seems very much so to be the case, indeed, ancient cultures seem to prefer this, Egypt anyone?)

Communicating with words is pretty much a given for most people, because you grew up with language. We use it all the time in school, but you WOULDN'T be thinking the same way if that wasn't the case.

The major plot point for the whole path is that she struggles to be understood, and feels she does it best through her paintings (again, thinking in images rather than words.) How is it that so few seem to catch this? Just because you're different doesn't mean there is something inherently wrong. Rin on the contrary seems quite natural.

purple haired Katawa Shoujo character

Re: If they were "normal"

Post by purple haired Katawa Shoujo character » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:31 pm

Please close this thread. This whole thing went way off track and I really don't want this thread to be a platform for people tearing at each other about autism or whatever.

vAnon

Re: If they were "normal"

Post by vAnon » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:34 pm

Well, my argument is that Rin would likely be very different.

Scarface

Re: If they were "normal"

Post by Scarface » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:34 am

vAnon wrote:People clearly didn't pay attention in the Rin path...
Just because someone has been shaped by their experiences to act differently than the norm doesn't mean one has some sort of inherent mental defect.
Just because you interpret Rin's action as her having been "shaped by her experiences to act differently" does not make it so. Nor does it make not so.

Yeah, that was some convoluted wording, sounded way better in my head... But I'm sure you get what I'm trying to say: that we can only speculate regarding Rin. She shows some characteristics commonly found in people with certain issues (call it a defect if you will, I won't), but that tells us nothing about whether she has those issues or not.
vAnon wrote:- Very little practice with words. (i.e. writing. Why don't you write a novel with no arms.)
When I played Rin's route she could paint with her feet, and was described as being extremely skilled at using them like hands. I'm fairly sure writing shouldn't be a problem for her. :P She does have a hard time trying to convey concepts using speech or text, sure, but the cause of that is not necessarily related to her lack of arms or any of its collateral effects.
vAnon wrote:indeed, ancient cultures seem to prefer this, Egypt anyone?)
Use of pictograms is unrelated to a culture's ability to think with words, mostly because the pictograms represent words (i.e. they're the representation of a preexisting language). Take the original inhabitants of Alaska, for example. They have different languages, some of which weren't written until relatively recently. Yet they can describe more shades of white and methods of fishing than you can shake a stick at.

There is no difference between representing the concept of "cow" with a drawing of a cow or with the letters "c o w", other than the fact that using the letters leaves you with something that does not visually resemble a cow. The meaning of the graphical representation of a concept is a social construct, and that does not change just because you use pictograms for the representation.
vAnon wrote:The major plot point for the whole path is that she struggles to be understood, and feels she does it best through her paintings (again, thinking in images rather than words.) How is it that so few seem to catch this? Just because you're different doesn't mean there is something inherently wrong. Rin on the contrary seems quite natural.
As far as I've seen, most people seem to catch that just fine. People usually also catch that it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with any mental issues Rin may or may not have, or at least that it isn't the cause of those issues, but rather a symptom.

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