Creation of a new (original) VN

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Oscuras
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Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by Oscuras » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:34 am

I'm getting a pretty lengthy text document describing my idea... should I post it here, or is there a better way to get critiques/ideas?

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C27
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Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by C27 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:47 am

AnonLurker wrote: It was actually a trade-off between the mech or a duel-environment (space and atmosphere) fighter aircraft. Much of what I put down was a mix of trade-off's like: officer or enlisted, space or land, etc. I'll take the independant company ship as a possible revision though.
I'm just bringing this up immediately because I'm sure a lot of people would later and more vehemently. :wink: I've been in many drawn-out and impassioned arguments on the subject with people who know much more than me. The short explanation is there's nothing that a space fighter could do that a disposable missile couldn't do with well over four times the efficiency (since it doesn't have to turn around and come back, not to mention the mass of the pilot + support systems and the limitations that entails). Delta-V, man, it's harsh. Mechs are even worse because they're terrible in mass/function ratio - even for land warfare, they can't come anywhere close to competing with a traditional armored vehicle chassis.
Rin Tezuka, Painter, withdraws from society...
Rin Tezuka, Painter has begun a mysterious construction!

yuastnav
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Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by yuastnav » Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:47 am

C27 wrote:[...] The short explanation is there's nothing that a space fighter could do that a disposable missile couldn't do [...]
Why not? A space fighter is a multifunctional war vehicle while a missile is a dumbfire rocket or something.
"[...] it's just a ride."

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Rykthrall
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Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by Rykthrall » Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:57 am

yuastnav wrote:
C27 wrote:[...] The short explanation is there's nothing that a space fighter could do that a disposable missile couldn't do [...]
Why not? A space fighter is a multifunctional war vehicle while a missile is a dumbfire rocket or something.
What is a space fighter primarily used for? Why, blowing s**t up of course!
Think about it.

TheLastMelody
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Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by TheLastMelody » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:20 pm

Oscuras wrote:I'm getting a pretty lengthy text document describing my idea... should I post it here, or is there a better way to get critiques/ideas?
I dont know, PM it to me and I will try to give some constructive feedback
My story, probably better left untold - http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5245

zeroyuki92
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Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by zeroyuki92 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:10 pm

Already inspired from years ago from the demo, but I am sticking to RL relatives in picking partners...Creating another project with online collaborations will costs many extra time and efforts, but still...Can be worth trying for :p

That said, for those who are inspired now, good luck! Another VN that comes out from Katawa Shoujo phenomenon will get a full blown support from me XD (not that I can support anything directly, though)

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C27
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Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by C27 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:23 am

AnonLurker wrote: Future War
Okay, other questions to help get juices flowing.
What's the general tech level and grittiness level of the setting?
How many other people, roughly, are around in the ship/fleet?
How long would the story arc be time-wise?
What other tensions and plot elements do you envision besides combat and general interpersonal stuff?
Rin Tezuka, Painter, withdraws from society...
Rin Tezuka, Painter has begun a mysterious construction!

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contown
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Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by contown » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:29 am

I don't know if I'm too late to the party, but I got that same feeling after watching 4LS and playing Katawa Shoujo. All I can do is write. I can't draw, program, or compose to save my life. But I've had a decent amount of creative writing practice, and it's one of the only things I can see myself doing for a career. So I'd be very interested in helping a group create a VN if there's room.

And this "old souls" idea sounds pretty cool. And, completely random idea that came into my head as I wrote that last sentence. Maybe part of the crisis is that these "old souls" are hitting their limit somehow, and their current reincarnations are the last they'll have. Their one last chance to... Well, I don't know.

muramasa13
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Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by muramasa13 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:10 am

I don't really think KS fandom should really play into making a new VN at all. Personally, I'm attempting to start making a VN with a friend of mine, (going slowly, due to school, work, not knowing what the hell we're doing, etc) but I don't feel as if we should be focusing on KS at all. Sure, 4LS inspired us to start this, but really, I don't want to emulate them; I want to achieve something on par with what they've done...can't really think of a way less corny to say it other than "with my own power." Can't really think of a good way to explain it, but trying to accomplish something while relying so heavily on something else just doesn't really fit my style.
Not that our little game is gonna be anywhere near on par with KS, of course, but hey, without a few aspirations you're never gonna get anywhere, right? Anyways, if anyone wants to be an artist for a VN that as of yet doesn't even have a story yet, feel free to contact me~ Though don't expect to get much back. I never remember to log in here.

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Rykthrall
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Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by Rykthrall » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:06 am

muramasa13 wrote:I don't really think KS fandom should really play into making a new VN at all. Personally, I'm attempting to start making a VN with a friend of mine, (going slowly, due to school, work, not knowing what the hell we're doing, etc) but I don't feel as if we should be focusing on KS at all. Sure, 4LS inspired us to start this, but really, I don't want to emulate them; I want to achieve something on par with what they've done...can't really think of a way less corny to say it other than "with my own power." Can't really think of a good way to explain it, but trying to accomplish something while relying so heavily on something else just doesn't really fit my style.
Not that our little game is gonna be anywhere near on par with KS, of course, but hey, without a few aspirations you're never gonna get anywhere, right? Anyways, if anyone wants to be an artist for a VN that as of yet doesn't even have a story yet, feel free to contact me~ Though don't expect to get much back. I never remember to log in here.
You're a little late to the party then, at least two groups have already started on the creation of VN's focused around disabilities.

yuastnav
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Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by yuastnav » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:51 am

Rykthrall wrote:
yuastnav wrote:
C27 wrote:[...] The short explanation is there's nothing that a space fighter could do that a disposable missile couldn't do [...]
Why not? A space fighter is a multifunctional war vehicle while a missile is a dumbfire rocket or something.
What is a space fighter primarily used for? Why, blowing s**t up of course!
Think about it.
That does not answer my question, though, and/or that was not the direction I am going to.
If you look at it realistically a human is more capable than just a missile.
"[...] it's just a ride."

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contown
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Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by contown » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:52 pm

So has anyone gotten anything together for a non-KS universe project?

AnonLurker
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Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by AnonLurker » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:54 pm

C27 wrote:
AnonLurker wrote: Future War
Okay, other questions to help get juices flowing.
What's the general tech level and grittiness level of the setting?
How many other people, roughly, are around in the ship/fleet?
How long would the story arc be time-wise?
What other tensions and plot elements do you envision besides combat and general interpersonal stuff?
These are just general thoughts, mind you, since I mostly just jot down notes and compare in what I want to use.

What's the general tech level and grittiness level of the setting?
It would be somewhere in the middle ground. The best examples I could give for inspiration would be Macross and Outlaw Star.

How many other people, roughly, are around in the ship/fleet?
Given that the Loreena is an aircraft carrier and may contain thousands of personnel in itself, I'll probably stick to just whoever the main characters will interact with on a primary basis. Like Alexander and Kasumi will have a squadron commander to deal with and etc.

How long would the story arc be time-wise?
That will probably depend on the partner paths the main character chooses to pick, but in general, I'm thinking anywhere in between several months to a year.

What other tensions and plot elements do you envision besides combat and general interpersonal stuff?
Good question. I imagined to use a crash-landing as the main part of the main path which can involve search and rescue from both sides of the battle, rough relations with the planet's population, the concept of why war is fought, being human and morality, etc. I can't really say anything solid being this early in writing.

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C27
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Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by C27 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:24 am

yuastnav wrote: If you look at it realistically a human is more capable than just a missile.
"More capable" how?
This could be something to explore with the story, if the space-fighter trope stays in. There would need to be a reason why they're used despite being terrible on paper. A technical reason such as extremely thick electronic warfare screens that make guided missiles nearly useless? Or perhaps cultural honor prejudice against fighting remotely by robots, without ever seeing your enemy?
Rin Tezuka, Painter, withdraws from society...
Rin Tezuka, Painter has begun a mysterious construction!

macfluffers
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Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by macfluffers » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:48 am

There are things a plane (or starfighter I suppose, but I'll just call them planes for simplicity) can do that a missile can't. If a missile misses it's target, well, it can't try again. Let's not forget that planes generally only have a handful of missiles--dogfights usually come down to guns. If you simply fire a couple G to A missiles at an enemy fighter, he'll dodge most of them and release chaff and flares for the few he can't.

Also, what about situations where explosions are excessive or unnecessary? Sometimes attackers will have to lay down weapons fire over a large area to weed out enemies who are hiding (infantry and armor often do the actually attacking after that), and they don't do it with missiles because that's dumb. Again, they use their guns, not their bombs or missiles. Guns cause less infrastructure damage, and missiles can only be used against a single target. There are other problems to consider such as accidental collateral damage and risk factor, both of which are greater for explosive weapons. Guns may be less showy, but there's a reason we don't hand out grenade launchers to every soldier.

And lastly, a plane can have a modular loadout. In addition to their guns, they can have normal bombs, fuel air bombs, rockets, a whole large selection of missiles, bomb dispensers, napalm bombs, etc. What's important about this is that they can mix and match if they need to. Yeah, you can just shoot multiple missiles from the base, but a pilot can bring different weapons to a fight and use them the moment they're needed rather than wait to see which missiles need to be launched, fire those missiles from the base, and then wait for the missiles to find their way to the targets.

That said, robotic pilots do certainly have an advantage over human pilots. In real life, the USAF is phasing out their fighter program and replacing fighters with drones, and predator drones already do a lot of the stuff that attackers are supposed to do. Soon after, I'm sure we'll have drone bombers too. We'll always have pilots for transport craft--that stuff isn't complicated enough to warrant something as expensive as drone tech.

Still, missiles are not objectively better than fighters. As for mechs, smaller mechs may have use in rough terrain, but they would be nothing like what we see in anime or Western sci-fi. They'd likely be no larger than twice a human's height.

PS - Missiles can't do recon.

Akira>>>Everyone else

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