Creation of a new (original) VN

A forum for general discussion of the game: Open to all punters
Francis
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:55 am

Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by Francis » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:15 am

Through the past few days, I've been hearing some talk about people wanting to go off on their own and start making new visual novels. Despite that, I haven't been able to find a single of these projects so far.

I have mixed feelings about the idea. At the same time, it'd be something I would really like to do; I enjoy writing (although I can't claim to be a particularly amazing writer), and always was on the lookout for the occasional project. Reading through KS is rekindling an interest for the VN genre that I thought was long-lost, and I'm sure many of you guys feel the same.

On the other side, the problem remains that spur-of-the-moment projects never tend to make it very far. The main challenge new-and-aspiring VN creators will have to face is the waning interest for the KS fandom which will likely bottom-out as days go by. Hopefully, by the time this moment comes, the devs (in the making) will have set out to create an identity of their own, prepared to stand for an idea which they can attribute to their own ambitions rather than to the desire to fill a void left by the lack of closure that the reading of a previous work left them with.

---

Oh, gosh. That sounds all way too technical and presumptuous. Anyway, I'd like to try my hand at doing one of these VN's. I'd just like to know if there's any interest here; I have some ideas that I'm ready to throw out there, and if enough people are good for it, we could set up an IRC somewhere and see what we can do.

Ockbald
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:11 am

Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by Ockbald » Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:03 am

Honestly, it can work.

However it requires effort. It requires a clear goal, a clear audience (Or maybe not? I'm not so sure how the market for VN works, just regular video games, but the KS devs were very worried how they would ressonate with their target audience if you go by one of their blog posts) constant "meetings" with the different people working on the project and so on.

KS was born from the passion and love of small group of people, that worked very hard for it.

From a personal experience, I will tell you this: If you really want to do this, create a pitch. Something quick and easy to read and make people know what you want to create.

From the pitch, you can play around the game (VN?) bible, thinking what needs to be in, how, why, when, and how much.

Before you know it you have a skeleton of a project, all you need is to push goals to your team and work together to make the bible become a real game (VN).

User avatar
NubChaos
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:02 am
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by NubChaos » Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:19 am

I sometimes write in my freetime, but I'm a bit like Rin. I have a hard time truly getting my thoughts out, and sometimes they come out very muddled and confusing.

That aside, I've always held an interest in becoming a voice actor. If a project does get going, I'd relish the opportunity to practice my voice. I don't expect to instantly be put on a team of course, since KS, among other VNs and games, don't even have voice-acting to begin with, and I'd have to actually talk to whoever's working on the project and give them some voice samples and stuff (probably through Skype or some other voice messaging service).

But yeah. KNOW THAT I AM WILLING AND ABLE TO THROW MY VOICE OUT THERE TO THE MASSES, if any of these KS-inspired projects are interested in utilizing voices.
Been a KS fan since late 2010, and am grateful for all the devs do! You guys rock!

My faves:
1) Rin
2) Lilly
3) Hanako
4) Emi
5) Shizune

Guest

Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by Guest » Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:52 am

To be honest, the biggest problem I've found in the little projects that seem to be piling up around KS is that none of them seem to have a concept that would actually spark interest, or their initial work is just so goddamn anime cliched (not necessarily a bad thing I guess, but the main reason I was drawn into KS was the precise lack of this, which allowed for much deeper characters than 'the tsundere' or the 'the genki girl' imo).

There's one floating around about cooking, and one of the main girls is a female version of Ainsley Harriot, and the main character's tagline is some bullshit about your cooking needing more love. Yeah, I don't think that's for me.

User avatar
NubChaos
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:02 am
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by NubChaos » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:00 am

Well I've had an idea brewing in my mind for a story regarding the concept of Old Souls.

My idea is, Old Souls are eternal souls that are constantly reborn into new people as time goes by.. They don't explicitly remember their previous lives, but may experience deja vu from time to time, or have dreams pertaining to events in their past lives. They would also have some superhuman abilities pertaining to their past lives (for example, say someone was Grigori Rasputin in a past life. They might have hydrophobia, due to Rasputin's ultimate demise via drowning, but be almost inhumanly resilient to poisoning and various injuries and stuff, like Rasputin was.)

Old Souls could also be identified by having birthmarks or inexplicable scars in places pertaining to their past lives' injuries and what-not. For example, someone who was Achilles in a past life could have a scar-like birthmark on their ankle/heel, which was Achilles's one weak point.

And with the concept of Old Souls, some notable historical figures from different time-periods could have been the same Old Soul (say, Nobunaga Oda and Genghis Khan bearing the same Old Soul, or something).


It's still a concept... but maybe there could be a group of Old Souls who have successfully tapped into their past lives' memories and fully awakened their powers, and they're trying to bring in other Old Souls who haven't awakened. The main character/characters could be the unawakened Old Souls, or something...


Anyways. That's my basic concept/idea. Dunno if it'd interest anyone, but there it is. I probably forgot some stuff too @_@
Been a KS fan since late 2010, and am grateful for all the devs do! You guys rock!

My faves:
1) Rin
2) Lilly
3) Hanako
4) Emi
5) Shizune

Smoky
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by Smoky » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:08 am

NubChaos wrote:Well I've had an idea brewing in my mind for a story regarding the concept of Old Souls.

My idea is, Old Souls are eternal souls that are constantly reborn into new people as time goes by.. They don't explicitly remember their previous lives, but may experience deja vu from time to time, or have dreams pertaining to events in their past lives. They would also have some superhuman abilities pertaining to their past lives (for example, say someone was Grigori Rasputin in a past life. They might have hydrophobia, due to Rasputin's ultimate demise via drowning, but be almost inhumanly resilient to poisoning and various injuries and stuff, like Rasputin was.)

Old Souls could also be identified by having birthmarks or inexplicable scars in places pertaining to their past lives' injuries and what-not. For example, someone who was Achilles in a past life could have a scar-like birthmark on their ankle/heel, which was Achilles's one weak point.

And with the concept of Old Souls, some notable historical figures from different time-periods could have been the same Old Soul (say, Nobunaga Oda and Genghis Khan bearing the same Old Soul, or something).


It's still a concept... but maybe there could be a group of Old Souls who have successfully tapped into their past lives' memories and fully awakened their powers, and they're trying to bring in other Old Souls who haven't awakened. The main character/characters could be the unawakened Old Souls, or something...


Anyways. That's my basic concept/idea. Dunno if it'd interest anyone, but there it is. I probably forgot some stuff too @_@
You have scarily hit something I used to believe in as a "religion," per say.
Read "Vellum: The Book of All Hours" and that should help you flesh out a lot of your idea.
"Maybe people like butterfly vomit." - Rin

Fronzel
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 6:10 am

Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by Fronzel » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:23 am

NubChaos wrote:Well I've had an idea brewing in my mind for a story regarding the concept of Old Souls.

My idea is, Old Souls are eternal souls that are constantly reborn into new people as time goes by.. They don't explicitly remember their previous lives, but may experience deja vu from time to time, or have dreams pertaining to events in their past lives. They would also have some superhuman abilities pertaining to their past lives (for example, say someone was Grigori Rasputin in a past life. They might have hydrophobia, due to Rasputin's ultimate demise via drowning, but be almost inhumanly resilient to poisoning and various injuries and stuff, like Rasputin was.)

Old Souls could also be identified by having birthmarks or inexplicable scars in places pertaining to their past lives' injuries and what-not. For example, someone who was Achilles in a past life could have a scar-like birthmark on their ankle/heel, which was Achilles's one weak point.

And with the concept of Old Souls, some notable historical figures from different time-periods could have been the same Old Soul (say, Nobunaga Oda and Genghis Khan bearing the same Old Soul, or something).


It's still a concept... but maybe there could be a group of Old Souls who have successfully tapped into their past lives' memories and fully awakened their powers, and they're trying to bring in other Old Souls who haven't awakened. The main character/characters could be the unawakened Old Souls, or something...


Anyways. That's my basic concept/idea. Dunno if it'd interest anyone, but there it is. I probably forgot some stuff too @_@
So only "old souls" are reborn? What about everyone else? Do they have souls and go to an eternal afterlife, or do they not have any immortal essence at all? You may not want to give a definite answer for this in your story because as in real life, who would know the answer for sure?

But do think about the implications of the possibilities. If normal people go to an afterlife, are the "old souls" cursed for not being able to go to it or are they the final inheritors of the earth because they go on forever? On the other hand, if normal people have no souls, wouldn't that make them deeply inferior to "old souls"? If that's the case, should "old souls" view normal people with contempt or pity? What would arrise from such feelings? I'd suggest thinking about the way "old souls" and any normal people who know about them view the condition and how it would affect their actions relating to it.

Since they definitely re-incarnate, is killing the current incarnation of an "old soul" morally equivalent to the killing of a normal person?

User avatar
NubChaos
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:02 am
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by NubChaos » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:34 am

Those are all questions that could be brought to the reader's mind if I ever made this idea into something concrete.

I'd go with normal people having normal souls, thus having some sort of afterlife, whereas the Old Souls are more-or-less doomed to live on forever more. Some of the awakened Old Souls could see it as a curse and may be deathseekers: trying to find a way to end themselves permanently.

In terms of the morality of killing an Old Soul, it'd be equivalent to killing anyone else. That person's life is ending. While the basic soul will return, it will be in an entirely new person. All the memories of that particular life; of all the relationships and turmoil that life went through will be extinguished.

Again, it's still a pretty basic concept @_@

If there's enough of an interest though, and discussion with others, I could flesh it out more.
Been a KS fan since late 2010, and am grateful for all the devs do! You guys rock!

My faves:
1) Rin
2) Lilly
3) Hanako
4) Emi
5) Shizune

Fronzel
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 6:10 am

Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by Fronzel » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:48 am

NubChaos wrote:I'd go with normal people having normal souls, thus having some sort of afterlife,
Are you sure you want to resolve this uncertainty so easily? 10,000 years of civilization hasn't managed it in reality.
NubChaos wrote:whereas the Old Souls are more-or-less doomed to live on forever more. Some of the awakened Old Souls could see it as a curse and may be deathseekers: trying to find a way to end themselves permanently.
Sorry but that's a bit of a vampire fiction cliche and at least vampires have the excuse of being murderous undead vermin when they mope. I can buy that some would see being tied to the mundane physical world as a curse and would seek a way to move on to a spiritual world they believe exists, but all of them?

And since you use the idea of reincarnation don't forgot that it's a basic religious concept in the East. A Hindu or Buddhist incarnation of an old soul shouldn't be at all surprised to discover their true natures since it only confirms their beliefs although they wouldn't believe that they'd actually reincarnate eternally.
NubChaos wrote:In terms of the morality of killing an Old Soul, it'd be equivalent to killing anyone else. That person's life is ending. While the basic soul will return, it will be in an entirely new person. All the memories of that particular life; of all the relationships and turmoil that life went through will be extinguished.
But if you had to chose between saving the life of an old soul, which has some essence you know will go on, and the life of a normal person, which you can't be sure has any immortal essence, which would be the right choice?

And if when the soul returns "it will be in an entirely new person" then what does the transmission of the soul mean? What does it mean to have the same soul as Rasputin?

You should avoid making this reincarnation deal merely a way to give people super-powers. That is not very interesting.

User avatar
NubChaos
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:02 am
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by NubChaos » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:19 am

I personally don't care for religion, but I can definitely see Eastern religious overtones in this, what with reincarnation and all.

As for what it would mean to have the same soul as Rasputin... Well, I'll use the example I had with Nobunaga Oda and Genghis Khan possessing the same Old Soul in their lifetimes. Theirs would be an old soul of conquest, as both revolutionized warfare at the time and very well could have conquered several countries, given enough time (and in Khan's case, he did just that.). Nobunaga, however, was betrayed in a coup d'etat that ended his life and ambitions prematurely, and while the Mongol Empire continued to thrive many years after Khan's death, it eventually fell apart due to infighting and other reasons that might not have come about so quickly if Khan were still around.

Both were truly ambitious men, with the potential to dominate their fellow man, but those ambitions were ended

I guess what I'm saying is, there are a limited amount of Old Souls at any given time, with each one representing something. In Nobunaga and Genghis Khan's cases, it would be a soul of Conquest, or something to that effect. Other Old Souls could have basic concepts and meanings behind them that have a sort of overall effect on whoever bears that Old Soul's personality and goals and such. It could pose an interesting question: What would happen if that person had a normal soul instead of an Old Soul? How will they have developed without the influence of the Old Soul?

By the way I'm really grateful you're deconstructing my idea and posing all these questions. It's helping me flesh the idea out and make it better. :D
Been a KS fan since late 2010, and am grateful for all the devs do! You guys rock!

My faves:
1) Rin
2) Lilly
3) Hanako
4) Emi
5) Shizune

yuastnav
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:59 am

Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by yuastnav » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:27 am

NubChaos wrote:I personally don't care for religion, but I can definitely see Eastern religious overtones in this, what with reincarnation and all.
[...]
Well, the idea of reincarnation is also kinda prevalent in Western religion, what with Jesus' resurrection and what not.
The Phoenix is still gladly taken as an example to show how that Christian principle works, although it stems from Egyptian mythology.
"[...] it's just a ride."

Fronzel
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 6:10 am

Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by Fronzel » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:17 am

yuastnav wrote:
NubChaos wrote:I personally don't care for religion, but I can definitely see Eastern religious overtones in this, what with reincarnation and all.
[...]
Well, the idea of reincarnation is also kinda prevalent in Western religion, what with Jesus' resurrection and what not.
The Phoenix is still gladly taken as an example to show how that Christian principle works, although it stems from Egyptian mythology.
Resurrection and reincarnation aren't quite the same idea. More importantly, in the various resurrection cults (Christianity of course being the most successful and long-lived) resurrection is a special event that happens to a single special person whereas in Eastern religions reincarnation is constantly happening with everyone.

TheGrimAngel
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:30 pm
Location: Hachiouji, Japan

Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by TheGrimAngel » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:49 am

If anyone is actually interested a me and a couple members have already started discussing another visual novel based in the KS universe using PM, if you are even slightly interested in what we have come up with give me a PM and I'll send you our early ideas, concept sketch, etc. I feel this is a very possible task if we find enough people willing to actually put forth the effort and willing to work towards forming a team.
Why pick a favorite character? Each of the story was beautiful and touching in its own unique way.

User avatar
SirRazer
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:21 pm

Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by SirRazer » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:00 am

TheGrimAngel wrote:If anyone is actually interested a me and a couple members have already started discussing another visual novel based in the KS universe using PM, if you are even slightly interested in what we have come up with give me a PM and I'll send you our early ideas, concept sketch, etc. I feel this is a very possible task if we find enough people willing to actually put forth the effort and willing to work towards forming a team.
xD, I was already halfway to the PM-section when I realized, that I'd be useless, since I don't know a bit of what it takes to help.
I'll still be cheering for you, though.

Lolz2day
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:02 am

Re: Creation of a new (original) VN

Post by Lolz2day » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:13 am

NubChaos wrote:Well I've had an idea brewing in my mind for a story regarding the concept of Old Souls.

My idea is, Old Souls are eternal souls that are constantly reborn into new people as time goes by.. They don't explicitly remember their previous lives, but may experience deja vu from time to time, or have dreams pertaining to events in their past lives. They would also have some superhuman abilities pertaining to their past lives (for example, say someone was Grigori Rasputin in a past life. They might have hydrophobia, due to Rasputin's ultimate demise via drowning, but be almost inhumanly resilient to poisoning and various injuries and stuff, like Rasputin was.)

Old Souls could also be identified by having birthmarks or inexplicable scars in places pertaining to their past lives' injuries and what-not. For example, someone who was Achilles in a past life could have a scar-like birthmark on their ankle/heel, which was Achilles's one weak point.

And with the concept of Old Souls, some notable historical figures from different time-periods could have been the same Old Soul (say, Nobunaga Oda and Genghis Khan bearing the same Old Soul, or something).


It's still a concept... but maybe there could be a group of Old Souls who have successfully tapped into their past lives' memories and fully awakened their powers, and they're trying to bring in other Old Souls who haven't awakened. The main character/characters could be the unawakened Old Souls, or something...


Anyways. That's my basic concept/idea. Dunno if it'd interest anyone, but there it is. I probably forgot some stuff too @_@

This actually an interesting idea and if it can turn into a full blown story it can be interesting. The only problem is that not everyone is a historical figure fanatic, so public interest is uncertain.

Post Reply