Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

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Shadow250000
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Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Shadow250000 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:34 pm

Harco wrote:Hm, I've been thinking about that panic attack and what caused it.

But let's start from the beginning, with my own experience. I suffered from panic attacks a couple of years back. It is an understatement to say that they're very unnerving. When you're having a severe panic attack, you really think you could die at any moment. Your mind thinks there's danger everywhere. All your muscles tighten (to make a run for it, something which you desperately want to do despite looking like you froze on the spot), your hearing becomes much more acute (even the slightest whisper will sound like thunder in your head) and you feel like everything is closing in on you -- the walls, the people around you... even stuff like your desk, the pencil in your hand or the letters in your book look menacing.
I had something similar a couple years back every now and then, maybe once a month or so, I just thought of it as like a "mini panic attack" but lemme know how it sounds to you.
It seemed to start from a constant noise, such as the hum of a computer in one that I clearly remember, then as it starts, the hum and all other noises start to sound louder. Then, I start hearing (in my head) a sound like a crowd of people talking, just indistinct chatter. Then, the noises start to sound aggressive, can't think of any other way to put it. They just keep getting louder and sounding more aggressive, along with the indistinct crowd chatter, which eventually turns from people talking loudly into people yelling very aggressively. This keeps going either for a while or until I get away from the noise for a few minutes.

If that is indeed an actual panic attack, then I'm thinking maybe the reason it wasn't worse was my autistic brain, and me just thinking something like "I'm not in any danger right now, no need to freak out

Nekken

Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Nekken » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:39 am

Now that I think of it, while Lilly's ending seems more positive for Hanako than her own, there's an important detail being forgotten: in the overall game timeline, Hanako's ending is much earlier. Lilly isn't even back from her first trip to Scotland yet. This changes things somewhat. Consider: in Hanako's ending, although she has yet to open up to anyone besides Lilly and Hisao, she has made remarkable progress when it comes to being seen in public. This latter is something she never achieves over the course of Lilly's path: she opens up to more people, but retains her general social anxiety.

Given the same time frame as Lilly's path, it's entirely plausible that Hanako might still open up to the newspaper club, but she would do so with a better grip on her social anxieties. That would put her further along after all: still not completely where she wants to be, but much closer to it. Then again, it's also plausible that she might not open up to others. That's a trap which is very easy to fall into when you're in love with someone and still accustomed to not having many social contacts. It really could go either way.

Still, the first of these two possibilities gives me something to think about. Perhaps Lilly's path is not as unambiguously better for Hanako as I had first thought.

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Rolanberry
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Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Rolanberry » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:10 am

Actually looking at it I think they kinda of 'cheat' on the Hanako story for Lilly's route due to how much of a issue dealing with her would be.

When you think about it, the two people in the game with the biggest issues when it comes to people are Hanako and Rin. while Rin sort of doesn't care about that sort of thing at all Hanako has had problems with friendship and in general relationships her whole life. She's in her last year of high school and Hisao might count as her second friend ever in life.

She's had quite a bit of time at school to try to make more friends but obviously has problems with it mentally. Even Mishi says that people have tried to befriend her but its just to tough. And with the general understanding from her teachers that she will at times need to just bolt out of the class for 'space' its obvious its a deep deep seeded problem. Its cause for amazement and even thanking Hisao when Hanako starts going to class more and staying in class!

her friendship with Lilly is also worth noting. It can't be just because she's blind of course since the school has no shortage of that. And even though she's been friends with her it seems since high school there are still things (seems alot of things) Hanako keeps from Lilly. Hanako's ability to make relationships is severly stunted, and for good reason with what shes gone through for most of her life.

Thats another reason why I think Hanako was sort of just 'dealt with' in Lilly's route. Shes got far to many problems that would take up to much attention from the leading lady.

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Nyarly
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Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Nyarly » Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:19 am

I can't really say whether he is useless, but an important thing is that Hisao is more important for her in Hanako's route. On Lilly's, he is "just" her friend, with no deeper feelings than that. But on Hanako's she naturally falls in love with him. That makes the patronizing even more frustrating, as she wants to be seen as equal by him even more. On top of that, it goes two ways. Since Hisao fell in love with her, he is even more protective. Of course, that makes things even worse.

On the other hand, if things go right (as in the good ending), I think it can help her even better. If he stops being over-protective and loves her as an equal, it could help her gaining self-confidence.

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FrozenKimchi
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Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by FrozenKimchi » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:10 am

No I don't believe so
Hisao actually understands Hanako in her route than Lilly's

being a friend who's closer to Hanako than even Lilly, the mother/big sister
Image

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Brogurt
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Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Brogurt » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:06 pm

Anonymous wrote:>-"So, Hanako...how are you feeling today?"
>"I t-think...I think I feel...g-good."
>-"Is that so? I'm glad to hear that. Any particular reason why you're feeling good?"
>"T-there's this...this boy...h-he's new to school. W-we hang out...a-and play Chess..."
>-"Oh he sounds really nice."
>"Y-yes, he i-is. I-I...oh n-nevermind."
>-"Hanako, I know that you want to say something, you're fidgeting around at your sleeve."
>"I-I...I really...I...like him. A lot..."
>-"Hm?"
>"A-at my b-birth-...birthday party y-yesterday, he e-even gave me a p-present!"
>-"A present?"
>"Y-yes! A...a little d-doll w-with brown hair. A-and Lilly g-gave me a t-teddy bear!"
>-"It is good to see you smile like this, Hanako. This boy seems to be very special to you."
>"H-he really is..."
Anonymous wrote:>I know he is coming over soon
>He's always coming over at 6pm
>I'm watching my alarm clock ticking away the seconds until he is finally here
>6.01pm
>I hear knocking on the door
>"Hisao?"
>-"Hey! Oh you're wearing your pyjamas already? You look so cute in them!"
>I giggle, blushing a bit
>-"I bought you a present in the city last weekend. I wanted to wait for the right opportunity and seeing as one month ago we got together..."
>One month...a funny thought. Time seemed to go by so fast and yet so slow at times...
>"Oh thank you!"
>He laughs
>"May I come in now?"
>-"Oh, sorry, of course."
>The door snaps shut
>I cannot hear their muffled voices anymore
>But I know that she is kissing him right now
>I feel tears slowly dripping onto my pillow as I lay here in my pink pyjamas

Ryto
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Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Ryto » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:13 pm

Brogurt wrote:
Anonymous wrote:>-"So, Hanako...how are you feeling today?"
>"I t-think...I think I feel...g-good."
>-"Is that so? I'm glad to hear that. Any particular reason why you're feeling good?"
>"T-there's this...this boy...h-he's new to school. W-we hang out...a-and play Chess..."
>-"Oh he sounds really nice."
>"Y-yes, he i-is. I-I...oh n-nevermind."
>-"Hanako, I know that you want to say something, you're fidgeting around at your sleeve."
>"I-I...I really...I...like him. A lot..."
>-"Hm?"
>"A-at my b-birth-...birthday party y-yesterday, he e-even gave me a p-present!"
>-"A present?"
>"Y-yes! A...a little d-doll w-with brown hair. A-and Lilly g-gave me a t-teddy bear!"
>-"It is good to see you smile like this, Hanako. This boy seems to be very special to you."
>"H-he really is..."
Anonymous wrote:>I know he is coming over soon
>He's always coming over at 6pm
>I'm watching my alarm clock ticking away the seconds until he is finally here
>6.01pm
>I hear knocking on the door
>"Hisao?"
>-"Hey! Oh you're wearing your pyjamas already? You look so cute in them!"
>I giggle, blushing a bit
>-"I bought you a present in the city last weekend. I wanted to wait for the right opportunity and seeing as one month ago we got together..."
>One month...a funny thought. Time seemed to go by so fast and yet so slow at times...
>"Oh thank you!"
>He laughs
>"May I come in now?"
>-"Oh, sorry, of course."
>The door snaps shut
>I cannot hear their muffled voices anymore
>But I know that she is kissing him right now
>I feel tears slowly dripping onto my pillow as I lay here in my pink pyjamas
Oh god, my feels.....T-T
100% Complete.
So here's my ranking:
Hanako>Lilly>Rin>=Emi>Shizune

viduuskamen
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Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by viduuskamen » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:03 am

Why... WHYYY... :cry:
This just makes Lilly's route that much more of a guilt trip... especially if you've paid attentions to Hanako's expressions during Lilly's route... some of them... seem to imply more.
"It's kinda funny, I've played a bunch of VN's and for the first time I'm feeling apprehensive about going down another path. I'm thinking weird crap like how will Hanako ever be happy if someones not there for her.......If Hanako's writer reads this I want you to know that I thank you for giving me this wonderful treasure."
-Rykn

[I feel like a giant jerk for completing the game.]

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Snelx
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Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Snelx » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:27 am

viduuskamen wrote:Why... WHYYY... :cry:
This just makes Lilly's route that much more of a guilt trip... especially if you've paid attentions to Hanako's expressions during Lilly's route... some of them... seem to imply more.
Yeah, Hanako like Hisao at a very early stage.

When Hisao is having the tea party with Lilly, Hanako and Akira (during Lilly's path)
Hanako mentioned "If it is Hisaoo, she doesn't mind him looking at her in pajamas"





---

@Brogurt

Which fanfic do you get that from?
I need to read. :lol:
It's kinda funny, I've played a bunch of VN's and for the first time I'm feeling apprehensive about going down another path. I'm thinking weird crap like how will Hanako ever be happy if someones not there for her.......
If Hanako's writer reads this I want you to know that I thank you for giving me this wonderful treasure.

- Rykn

華子 - Hanako - 'flower girl'

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Brogurt
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Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Brogurt » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:40 pm

Snelx wrote:
@Brogurt

Which fanfic do you get that from?
I need to read. :lol:
Anonymous posted them on /v/ a while ago, and has been posting them in nearly all of the threads since then. Anonymous writefaggotry is a great source of inspiration a great source of pain.

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GreenDango
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Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by GreenDango » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:43 pm

A lot of spoilers about Lilly's and Hanako's paths. Kinda big ones, maybe.

Hisao's presence, IMO, is needed In both Lilly's and Her own. In both she never opens until contact with Hisao. In Hanako's path she becomes a stronger person sooner than in Lilly's path. Hanako's finally becomes her true self before Lilly ever returns. In Lilly's path I'm pretty sure it happens after she returns. It really is thanks to Hisao. The thing is with Lilly's route she still could become depressed, but we really don't know. At least with in Hanako's path she has some one to fully support her and be there for her. I think it is safe to say that Hanako will still join the her club and travel, but Hisao will be there as well.

Also, think about this. Lets say that Hanako, Lilly, and Hisao never meet. Lilly is still going to go away to Scotland. Hanako will be saying in Japan, with nobody. Lilly said that Hisao has has a great effect on Hanako and has helped her open up. If she never opens up/does not become stronger, imagine the effect it will have on Hanako. She could be depressed for a long time. But if you pick Hanako route, Hisao will be there for her when Lilly leaves, assuming you get the good or neutral ending. Even in Lilly's route If you don't get Lilly to stay with you, Hanako has already became a stronger person, plus you could be there for her if need be. If you get the Good ending then Lilly stays so Hanako is a stronger person, and she has two very close friends for her.


Just my thoughts...

Edit: And it is fairly obvious that Hanako did (may still) have feelings for Hisao. That makes me wonderif Hisao does not chase after Lilly when she leaves, could a relation ship develop Hanako and Hisao? It seems that Hisao gets over his feelings for Lilly, and with Hanako being a stronger woman, do you think she could go after Hisao? Honestly, that is what I want to believe if you get the neutral/bad ending(it is not really bad but I guess it could be the bad ending) with Lilly.

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F4lk
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Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by F4lk » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:06 pm

You all made me think ybout this issue a lot during the last few days, so I would like to share my thoughts with you.

In Hanako's route, Hisao makes this big mistake and tries to protect her from the very beginning rather than treating her as equal, which would mean not to protect, but to support her. This is what he is doing until they both confess their real toughts and feelings at the very end of her route. Therefore, I think Hisao's presence is useless for a long time. As long as he treated her, like Hanako said, like "a child", or "a broken person", he did nothing that really improved her condition. Only at rare occasions in Hanako's route, when he treated her as equal, for example when he first asked her about her scars, when he played pool with her at the Jazz club or when he showed her his scar, he had a real influence on her. Only wenn he decided to give her some space while she locked herself in her room at her birthday, THIS is the moment for me when her behaviour really started to take a turn for the letter. If Hanako did not realize her feelings, her love for Hisao by then, this was the moment she did for sure. So as not to lose him, she had to be more active. This is the reason she followed him into the city, showed him all her scars and shared a bed with Hisao. This, in my opinion, is all influenced by his behaviour. Although the reasons for Hanako's changes may have been very sad ones, and not intended like that by Hisao, they had an impact in Hanako. After their confession to each other, his influence on her reaches its top, with her motivation for tearing down her walls turning from "if I do not change, I will lose him" to "He really love me, I can rely on him".

In Lilly's route, however, he focusses his attention on Lilly. He is still there for Hanako, but I never saw him that over-protective like he is in Hanako's route. As opposed to her own route, she seems to trust Hisao at a very early stage of Lilly's route, seeing him as a true, SUPPORTIVE friend. Therefore, Hisao's influence in her behaviour starts way earlier, and is constant during this route. She gets more and more self-confident, even after Hisao and Lilly became a couple. Whether she fell in love with Hisao in Lilly's route, too, should not make a difference, and I'm very glad for that. It would have made me very sad to see her suffer from that.

So my conclusions are...

1. Does Hisao have an influence on Hanako? YES, in both Hanako's and Lilly's route
2. Is there a possibility that Hanako would have changed without Hiaso's presence? I don't think so, in both routes. The changes are because of his presence and behaviour. Maybe the would have occured later, or after meeting another person, but nobody can say that for sure.
3. Does Hisao have the same influence on Hanako in her own and Lilly's route? Again, I don't think so. While in her own route, his influence is near to zero at the beginning, except of the raw occasions mentioned above, but increases rapidly after her birthday. In Lilly's route, he has a constant influence on her, from a very early stage till the end. Furthermore, I think his influence in Hanako's own route causes far more and greater changes of her behaviour then in Lilly's route. In Lilly's, she gets the strength to work on her future, but still remains dissociated from other people. In her own route, she regains trust in other people, and is even able to kiss Hisao publicly. This is the route where she has the chance to come to terms with her past, leaving all the sadness and bad feelings behind.
"The reason I feel people are getting such Feels [while playing KS], is that the border between fantasy and reality is thin in this game. It feels real, and when you are done, its like spending a week getting to know someone intimately and then never seeing them again."
- Bix

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Valtameri
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Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Valtameri » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:26 pm

Brogurt wrote:
Anonymous wrote:>-"So, Hanako...how are you feeling today?"
>"I t-think...I think I feel...g-good."
>-"Is that so? I'm glad to hear that. Any particular reason why you're feeling good?"
>"T-there's this...this boy...h-he's new to school. W-we hang out...a-and play Chess..."
>-"Oh he sounds really nice."
>"Y-yes, he i-is. I-I...oh n-nevermind."
>-"Hanako, I know that you want to say something, you're fidgeting around at your sleeve."
>"I-I...I really...I...like him. A lot..."
>-"Hm?"
>"A-at my b-birth-...birthday party y-yesterday, he e-even gave me a p-present!"
>-"A present?"
>"Y-yes! A...a little d-doll w-with brown hair. A-and Lilly g-gave me a t-teddy bear!"
>-"It is good to see you smile like this, Hanako. This boy seems to be very special to you."
>"H-he really is..."
Anonymous wrote:>I know he is coming over soon
>He's always coming over at 6pm
>I'm watching my alarm clock ticking away the seconds until he is finally here
>6.01pm
>I hear knocking on the door
>"Hisao?"
>-"Hey! Oh you're wearing your pyjamas already? You look so cute in them!"
>I giggle, blushing a bit
>-"I bought you a present in the city last weekend. I wanted to wait for the right opportunity and seeing as one month ago we got together..."
>One month...a funny thought. Time seemed to go by so fast and yet so slow at times...
>"Oh thank you!"
>He laughs
>"May I come in now?"
>-"Oh, sorry, of course."
>The door snaps shut
>I cannot hear their muffled voices anymore
>But I know that she is kissing him right now
>I feel tears slowly dripping onto my pillow as I lay here in my pink pyjamas
Thanks, after that i KNOW i can never play Lilly's route :cry:
It sits in silence
Eats away at me
It feeds like cancer

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Harco
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Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Harco » Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:21 pm

>The door snaps shut
>I cannot hear their muffled voices anymore
>But I know that she is kissing him right now
>I feel tears slowly dripping onto my pillow as I lay here in my pink pyjamas
This had me laughing so hard.

I guess this sealed the deal: I am going to hell.

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Snelx
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Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Snelx » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:04 am

Valtameri wrote: Thanks, after that i KNOW i can never play Lilly's route :cry:
Yeah, i suggest not to.

There is a part in Lilly route, where Hanako stares at Hisao when Lilly and he hug each other..

That stare kills me,
and i couldn't play for a while. :?


but still completed Lilly's route.. i feel awful though. Didn't feel as happy as Lilly fans. :lol:

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