Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

A forum for general discussion of the game: Open to all punters
Uliana
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:46 am

Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Uliana » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:53 am

Lilly's route is the only route that shows how Hanako is doing past the usual story timeframe, since she's pretty much nonexistent and unimportant on the other routes (well, most of the girls are after a certain period on each of their routes anyway). We never see how Hanako dealt with her own problems in the other routes.

I'm of the impression that it's not that Hanako is "much better" in Lilly's route than on her own, it's just that her road to "salvation" took a different path. In the Lilly route, seeing Lilly and Hisao in a relationship combined with their reassurances on her importance, confirming her independence and their (quasi-parental) love for her was what gave her the foundation to improve herself. It's not as dramatic and reaches much further in the future, but she starts to ease up little by little.

On the other hand, while she did undergo a hell of a lot more pain in her own route, Hanako grew up a hell of a lot faster compared to Lilly's route, and this time no matter what happens, she knows that she is at least understood that little bit better by her best friend Lilly, and her now lover Hisao.

Where on Lilly's route Hanako takes the slow and gradual way to get out of her shell, in her own route getting out of that shell involved taking Hisao's own shell and smashing them both at each other - it'd hurt a lot more and is much more explosive, but reveals a whole lot more.

In both routes however, it is Hisao's friendship that ultimately causes the changes in Hanako to get started, whether as a friend/older brother figure in Lilly's route, or as her boyfriend in her own.

.... oh f, now I just imagined Hanako saying "Onii-chan~"-

*flatlines*

ardiel

Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by ardiel » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:11 am

I wouldn't say Hisao was useless. I would say that Hanako's path was probably hard to write.

I say this because she's reclusive and practically mute at times, which means less dialogue to work with, which means less chances to reveal depth about her, less chances to tell us what's going on in her head, and less chances for Hisao to actually figure out what the heck is going on.

It could have been done differently, and might have been better given more time and effort (not that I'm knocking the devs at all, they did a most excellent job considering the situations) but it is what it is.

We just have to realize that Hanako wasn't born yesterday (or the day before Hisao met her or whatever) but that she would have a lot of depth, being alive as long as she's being alive, and it would be a hidden depth due to her strong introversion.

So no, I don't think Hisao was useless per se, I just think it was difficult to show much without totally changing Hanako's character to do it.

User avatar
Snelx
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:44 am

Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Snelx » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:13 am

Uliana wrote: .... oh f, now I just imagined Hanako saying "Onii-chan~"-
*flatlines*
i think i just nosebleed.
It's kinda funny, I've played a bunch of VN's and for the first time I'm feeling apprehensive about going down another path. I'm thinking weird crap like how will Hanako ever be happy if someones not there for her.......
If Hanako's writer reads this I want you to know that I thank you for giving me this wonderful treasure.

- Rykn

華子 - Hanako - 'flower girl'

ReaperZ
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:39 am

Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by ReaperZ » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:21 am

Hisao wasn't useless even if you consider how Hanako is in the other routes.

Yes, she does come out of her shell and makes friends but would she be able to bare her scars for them like she did for Hisao?

It's the difference between taking baby steps and take a huge leap out of your comfort zone. I'd compare it to taking time out to help at the local orphanage as opposed to selling your home and moving to Afghanistan to be a missionary.

User avatar
Zet
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:52 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Zet » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:25 am

It's really hard to say if Hisao was useless or not but I think on Lilly's route, Hanako was able to get stronger because, she wanted a guy like Hisao who sees her for who she is, and not like people just staring at her scars. But in Hanako's route, her development was slower because this was the first time a guy was falling in love with her and she didn't know what to do, and had all these thoughts rushing through her head. But that is just my opinion.

User avatar
Snelx
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:44 am

Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Snelx » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:43 am

yeah, after reading so much in-depth and diverse opinions from everyone.
i start to think Hisao probably isn't useless for Hanako.

Hisao probably shattered the shell Hanako has put up.
In Hanako path, it seems that Hanako only open up to HIsao (and Lilly).

While in Lilly path,
it seems that Hanako is slightly open up to everyone in general.

Not sure which one i prefer :?
It's kinda funny, I've played a bunch of VN's and for the first time I'm feeling apprehensive about going down another path. I'm thinking weird crap like how will Hanako ever be happy if someones not there for her.......
If Hanako's writer reads this I want you to know that I thank you for giving me this wonderful treasure.

- Rykn

華子 - Hanako - 'flower girl'

Nekken

Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Nekken » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:47 am

Hisao's presence is not useless: Lilly helped Hanako open up to another person, but Hisao was the first step in building a wider social circle. The difference between having one friend and having two is enormous.

However, I do think you have a point. In some ways, Hisao falling in love with Lilly was a better outcome for Hanako than her own path was, because it forced the two of them to give Hanako the space and the agency that she really needs. That's not to say that she won't turn out OK from her own path, but there's a reason that disaster strikes, one way or another, no matter what you do. Ironically, Lilly and Hisao are so focused on Hanako during the latter's path that it blinds them to the problem until it is too late, or very nearly so. Of course, they don't figure it out on Lilly's path either, but they don't have to, because they wind up giving her what she needs anyway, and that lets her really blossom in the way that she needs to.

I actually like this. Love is a powerful thing, but it is not a cure-all, and in some circumstances it even interferes.

Poly
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:25 pm

Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Poly » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:41 pm

Sort of, but notice Hisao's observation in Lily's route.

It is not Hanako that starts talking to the girl. It's the girl sitting next to Hanako that begins talking to her.

If Hisao and Hanako get together at the end of her route. No doubt that Hanako will be more willing to work with the paper along with HIsao. This is BEFORE Lily's leaves to live with her family.

So it is likely we can assume Hanako and Hisao together are a stronger presence than Hanako on her own.It is even more likely that Hanako and Hisao go traveling together as well.

ReaperZ
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:39 am

Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by ReaperZ » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:56 pm

Hanako also mentions during her good ending that she just wanted Lilly and Hisao to stop protecting her. I figured that it happened in Lilly's route because the two of them ended up focusing on each other instead of Hanako, which also meant that perhaps indirectly Hanako felt less like she was being protected and thus going Lilly's route ends up as indirectly giving Hanako the same thing Hisao does at the conclusion of Hanako's good ending, albeit without the romance.

viduuskamen
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:47 am
Location: USA

Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by viduuskamen » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:40 pm

Logged in at work just to link this from the Hanako thread:
http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=13&t ... 240#p68272
"It's kinda funny, I've played a bunch of VN's and for the first time I'm feeling apprehensive about going down another path. I'm thinking weird crap like how will Hanako ever be happy if someones not there for her.......If Hanako's writer reads this I want you to know that I thank you for giving me this wonderful treasure."
-Rykn

[I feel like a giant jerk for completing the game.]

chicunsu
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:14 pm

Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by chicunsu » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:03 pm

viduuskamen wrote:Logged in at work just to link this from the Hanako thread:
http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=13&t ... 240#p68272
Someone linked my comment >.< <--- Feels proud =3
And NO, you might say that Hisao seems useless in Hanako's route because of how she looked and managed to do it in Lilly's route. but the truth is said in Hanako's route, BOTH lilly and Hisao did not really understand her, and i don't think she would say that fact to Lilly as she said it to Hisao, because he got a special place for her. And the reason she got brave enough to get a friend in Lilly's route is BECAUSE she saw how it went for Lilly and Hisao, and propably didn't want to be in the way too, but in Hanako's route, NOTHING OF THIS HAPPENS, so the same arguments for Lilly's route can not be used for Hanako's route.
The two paths is from the same game and place, but at the same time, their two different.... "realities"/"worlds" what happens in one DOES NOT happen in the other.
''Cheerful disposition, light skin/hair/eyes, poor motors skills, bad balance, short attention span and trouble with words" So... she has a case of moe.
~About misha's disability

User avatar
CNB
Posts: 146
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by CNB » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:18 pm

ReaperZ wrote:Hanako also mentions during her good ending that she just wanted Lilly and Hisao to stop protecting her. I figured that it happened in Lilly's route because the two of them ended up focusing on each other instead of Hanako, which also meant that perhaps indirectly Hanako felt less like she was being protected and thus going Lilly's route ends up as indirectly giving Hanako the same thing Hisao does at the conclusion of Hanako's good ending, albeit without the romance.
This is pretty much how I see it. I feel like in Lilly's route, Hanako started to get better in spite of Lilly and Hisao, not because of them.

Hisao thinking about how Hanako was like his and Lilly's daughter made me more angry than anything else in the game. I was glad she was able to distance herself from them in Lilly's route; their behavior was just as toxic as it was in Hanako's own, except they never actually realized or confronted it. While Hanako's path ends on a less unambiguously happy note, I think it gives her much better prospects for deepening and improving her relationship with her existing friends, as well as making new ones.

This is of course heavily colored by the fact that I went through Hanako's route first. If I'd done Lilly first (or liked her more), I might have a different perspective. Plus, as someone previously mentioned, although there's some consistency across routes, the characters aren't exactly the same since the authors needed to avoid having the supporting cast steal the spotlight.

User avatar
Yuno
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:09 pm

Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Yuno » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:52 pm

Mirage_GSM wrote:
Snelx wrote:I really want to believe that Hanako; being in love with Hisao, will helps her condition to improve.
But in other routes, it just seems that Hanako doesn't need any help.
Of course you're free too interpret and analyze to your heart's content, but I think the main reason why Hanako does so well for herself in Lilly's path is that that path is about Lilly, and if Hanako were having all the issues there that she has in her own path that would detract from Lilly's story.
I agree with this, here. I think Hanako is just explained away in Lilly's path to make sure the reader is comfortable.

Guest

Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Guest » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:03 pm

Snelx wrote:PS: Then again, the triggers to her panic attack is the mentioned of birthday.
I wonder why she did not break down when Lilly and Hisao celebrate her birthday during the 'Tea party' scene.
My thoughts exactly :D After the classroom scene I was under the impression that it was best be ignored. It was a bit confusing, also why or how Lilly gave her a present the year before when Hanako was locked up in her room and obviously horribly disturbed.

User avatar
Rubytyr
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:10 am

Re: Is Hisao's Presence Useless in Hanako's Route?

Post by Rubytyr » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:22 pm

Guest wrote:
Snelx wrote:PS: Then again, the triggers to her panic attack is the mentioned of birthday.
I wonder why she did not break down when Lilly and Hisao celebrate her birthday during the 'Tea party' scene.
My thoughts exactly :D After the classroom scene I was under the impression that it was best be ignored. It was a bit confusing, also why or how Lilly gave her a present the year before when Hanako was locked up in her room and obviously horribly disturbed.
I always figured that situation was a conflict in herself; She treasures the kindness shown to her by lilly and Hisao; I think she simply tolorates the party for Lilly's sake - so she not really happy about it in itself, but the three people that keep her company.

(as for her breaking down in class when finding out about the birthday party - even if she said it wasent the case, I cant help but suspect she felt betrayed by lilly and Hisao - not for the party, but out a jealous instinct; mainly becuase she starts to shut down the moment Misha insinuates the outing being suspicous. Just another harsh misunderstanding, Hisao tries to explain the truth - but I think she was already to far gone by then.

think about it, the two people that she cares about most, and lilly being extremely attractive (and I dont doubt Hanako caught Hisao admiring Lilly the first time he saw them both in their nightgowns), and Hanako already staring to have feelings for Hisao (Just friends...? :( ) - she probably felt forsaken as they went on a secret outing together - and tried to keep it from her. At least that how I read into it~
Last edited by Rubytyr on Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply