Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

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sporkaganza
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Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by sporkaganza » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:42 pm

I'm pretty sure the devs have said that no ending is canon. Even if one was, it doesn't really matter. It's fiction, so any of the routes are just as true as any of the others.
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JackALope

Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by JackALope » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:55 pm

sporkaganza wrote:I'm pretty sure the devs have said that no ending is canon. Even if one was, it doesn't really matter. It's fiction, so any of the routes are just as true as any of the others.
Somebody on /a/ told me that, if you extract the data, you can find the images for the walking away in the rain scene labeled "true end".

So I mean, take of that what you will. I know I'm certainly angry as fuck right now.

And that's silly.

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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by Mirage_GSM » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:51 am

If you read Tsukihime, every bad end is labelled "True End".
It's just a label. Get over it.
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Kaiio
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Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by Kaiio » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:39 am

Ignore them, Rin doesn't like labels anyway.

TheBigD

Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by TheBigD » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:15 am

JackALope wrote: That's what makes Rin's route so great, I think. The fact that she doesn't have any arms is sort of an after-thought. I've played all but Lilly's route, but in the other three routes the issues and problems of the girl stem from their disability, or how they got it. Hanako's problems stem from the fire and the scars. Emi's problem stems from the accident that took her father from her. Shizune's problems stem from not being able to talk to people normally.

Rin isn't portrayed as the armless painter. As somebody else said, she's Rin, the painter, who just so happens to not have any arms.

Anyways, I started to ramble there. Where was I? Right.

As long as Hisao thought he could approach Rin like any other person, he'd never be able to close the gap between them, because the normal way of approaching people simply doesn't work with Rin. He had to get angry at her for not being normal, then see Nomiya get angry at her for the same thing, in order to feel ashamed and realize what he's been doing is wrong.

Without that, I don't think, Hisao would have ever been able to truly make the connection with Rin that he did.
I agree completely, and It's one of the reasons that RIn's route is my favorite. By the end of her arc I had actually forgotten (Well, not forgotten, but, you know) that she didn't have any arms. Playing that arc, and all of Katawa Shoujo, for that matter, has really opened my eyes to the 'different people are people too' thing. Yes, I knew not to judge people by appearences, but on some base level, the thought of someone with no arms, or with a major disability, creeped me out. In fact, when I first heard about this game and started playing, I played it in dread, thinking that the deformed girl would leap out and lead to squick. But from that first moment that you see Rin, it was just... it was great. Totally changed how I look at the world, and other people. For the better.

F*ck this is a good game.

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V2Blast
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Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by V2Blast » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:19 pm

JackALope wrote:Anyways, you can't really say that you wouldn't have acted in the same way. I mean, I'll be the first person to say that I don't think realism in a story is necessarily a good thing, but at the same time I don't think you should act like you're better than Hisao, thinking you'd act differently in his situation. You spend your entire life communicating and connecting normally to people, and then suddenly this girl enters your life who you can't communicate or connect with normally, but who you still want to communicate and connect with.

It would be frustrating. Amazingly frustrating. Maddeningly frustrating. And you'd probably get mad just like Hisao did.
Oh, it was, even knowing it was fictional. I sympathized with Hisao when he started yelling, because, well, trying to deal with Rin was pretty frustrating. It's obviously not her fault, but still, he needed to get it out.
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Niggoslav_Krawczyk
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Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by Niggoslav_Krawczyk » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:02 pm

I have to say if the bad end is the true end, it makes sense for her crazy artist self to have a bad true end. Chin-up Rin! You're just like every other artist whose works eventually sold for $10,000,000+ a pop! Troubled and wangsty SELLS
now lets go give you a carving knife and see if you can reach your ear.

ablankspace

Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by ablankspace » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:53 pm

Kaiio wrote:Ignore them, Rin doesn't like labels anyway.


thank you for posting that, lol. it made me smile.

hisao was definitely lost when it came to rin, but it seemed like he made progress, little by little. rins story tugged my heart strings so bad.

Zer0

Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by Zer0 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:35 am

There really is no "canon end". The devs are not doing another game; it was their intention that you decided whichever end is "canon" for you. This being the case, the closest thing to "canon" that you seem to be grasping at would be a consensus opinion. Problem is, people almost never reach a consensus opinion, particualrly on issues like this. -On this issue specifically, from what I can tell, the fan base seems to be split (unlike all the others... in other words, there's a pretty much agreement that Lilly's "good end" is the "canon" one) and I can tell you why.

This story... the way I played it... I tried the best I could to put myself in Hisao's shoes. Make the choices that Hisao would, and that I felt were best. I got the 'good end' on my first try. It fealt... hollow. rehearsed. cliche. peachy. It didn't seem to fit with all of the emotions I was experiencing through Hisao about Rin, and my contemplation for their relationship.... I and Hisao both experienced and voiced our frustration with Rin's inability to communicate.. and, an even deeper disturbance with her way of looking at the world... how she just wanted everything in it to bow to her whims... how art always came first... how she just wanted to... use you as a tool, or a muse or as a thing to alleviate her loneliness, and then drop whenever she wanted.

Just a few minutes ago, I went and tryed to get all the scenes that I'd missed on my first playthrough... which meant playing over Rin's route over again twice. I got her bad end first (which, to put it lightly, seemed a bit over the top and abrupt, to me) and then the "neutral end".... That one... had all of my thoughts, concerns, fears, guesses, ideas about the potential relationship all come to fruition. In other words, based on the way I saw Hisao and Rin interacting, Hisao's personal thoughts... how relationships tend to work out in the REAL WORLD between... 'normal people' like Hisao and.... well, those like Rin... That is what I think would have happened. No sunshine and daisys.

Rin needs to learn how to really interact and... communicate with people before she can really have what can be called a "healthy relationship", and that is why her first stab at it didn't go so well. It was a real learning experience for her, and she's going to take that on with her to Art school, where she will continue to grow and develop. It's actually probably better for her then to stay with the version of Hisao that would just conform to her and shelter her from further "unnecessary" human interaction. Hisao would become a crutch for her, and a stint for her growth. You could see that already taking place with the gallery incident... In the version that lead to the good end for me, Rin couldn't get up and go back in to face the people and their questions, but in the version that lead to her neutral end, she could.

I dunno, I know this is all oppinion and subjective and yadda yadda, but in this case, I really do think that the Neutral end is the most 'canon' route for Rin.
-It seems more realistic, it leaves her better off/more independent (in my opinion), and, well... face it, Rin is kind of a 'Neutral character' to the core, don't you think it fits her?
~~

[Just for the record, these are all the endings that I consider 'canon' for this game (in no particular order):
Lilly - Good End.
Hanako - ...well, either her neutral end or her good end, really. 50/50. but, really, for me, it's 51/49 to her neutral, because I would want to be too protective of her. *shrug*.
Emi - Good end.
Rin - Neutral end.
Shizune - Bad end. Shizune's route kinda pisses me off... particularly her ending.

And, of all the routes, which one Do I think is the "most canon"? Emi's. Maybe it's just because it was the first one I ever did, I only ever got the good ending, and I fell for the girl. maybe it's because this story is pretty much a deadlock as my favorite with lill'ys. but ultimately, were I Hisao, I would have ended up with Emi. not because I went after her.. (I was actually trying for Lilly on my first go, but wound up with Emi...) but just because I was concerned for my health... and am a little bit competitive and dumb... but, again, I guess that's just me... :| ]

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Dawnstorm
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Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by Dawnstorm » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:27 pm

Pretty much with you there, ZerO, for this reason:
ZerO wrote:That one... had all of my thoughts, concerns, fears, guesses, ideas about the potential relationship all come to fruition. In other words, based on the way I saw Hisao and Rin interacting, Hisao's personal thoughts... how relationships tend to work out in the REAL WORLD between... 'normal people' like Hisao and.... well, those like Rin... That is what I think would have happened. No sunshine and daisys.
Except it's probably rainbows and dandelion seeds.

(Aside: I had to reverse-engineer Hisao for that route, because I identified with Rin all the way through.)

Oddly enough, I also agree with you about Emi's route being the most "canon" route. Emi is neither my favourite girl, nor is her route my favourite route. I say this because I feel that's where the love-love alchemy works out best.

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