Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

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JackALope

Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by JackALope » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:44 pm

Okay, so, I just heard somebody tell me that the end with Rin where she ends up walking away after the whole argument after it stops raining is Rin's "true end" while the end in the field of dandelions is simply her "good end"?

Can somebody confirm or deny this for me? I am throughly confused. I always thought good ends were the true, canon ends. Especially since at the end of the good end you get the credits you get when you get the true end for the other girls.

yuastnav
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Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by yuastnav » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:47 pm

I'll going out on a limb here and say that there is no official true end.
Or rather: the true end is the one you want it to be. Come on, don't let the devs spoon-feed you, have a little imagination. :)
I try not to be condescending or anything but everyone has to decide for themselves what something means to them.
"[...] it's just a ride."

JackALope

Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by JackALope » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:06 pm

yuastnav wrote:I'll going out on a limb here and say that there is no official true end.
Or rather: the true end is the one you want it to be. Come on, don't let the devs spoon-feed you, have a little imagination. :)
I try not to be condescending or anything but everyone has to decide for themselves what something means to them.
I guess I should reword that.

Somebody suggested that the devs considered the "bad end" to be Rin's "true/canon end".

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Babli
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Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by Babli » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:48 pm

Since there wont be sequel, it doesnt matter which one is canon. Its up to you, which one feels the best for each character.

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KeWano
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Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by KeWano » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:54 pm

Well, more often than not, the good ending is the "canon" ending for that character, but since there are no real canon in KS, it might as well be her bad ending. It's up to your own interpretation.

EDIT: In the event image folder in the Katawa Shoujo directory, there's a subfolder named rin_goodend.zip and one named rin_trueend.zip. So, one might assume that the bad end is indeed the true end, if we go with what the game itself says.
"I’m trying to experience. People probably don’t do this enough." -Rin Tezuka.

uwa
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Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by uwa » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:20 pm

Rin's bad end did make more sense to me based on how Hisao had acted, but of course I'm not going to call it the real ending. That's just my personal interpretation.
Emi > Lilly > Misha > Hanako = Rin > Shizune... I might just prefer women who put out a lot.
Mind-stickiness: Hanako > Misha = Shizune > Rin > Emi > Lilly

JackALope

Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by JackALope » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:01 pm

uwa wrote:Rin's bad end did make more sense to me based on how Hisao had acted, but of course I'm not going to call it the real ending. That's just my personal interpretation.
... isn't how Hisao acted based on your choices, though?

uwa
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Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by uwa » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:54 pm

JackALope wrote:
uwa wrote:Rin's bad end did make more sense to me based on how Hisao had acted, but of course I'm not going to call it the real ending. That's just my personal interpretation.
... isn't how Hisao acted based on your choices, though?
It seemed like Hisao always missed important details, and thus didn't even have the option to do the right thing. In other words, I often disliked all the choices available.

The one choice that separated the good end from the big bad end was pretty reasonable, but it just felt like he had already hurt her too much by that point for the good end to happen. It was better for her to go to art school.
Emi > Lilly > Misha > Hanako = Rin > Shizune... I might just prefer women who put out a lot.
Mind-stickiness: Hanako > Misha = Shizune > Rin > Emi > Lilly

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Otakumon
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Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by Otakumon » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:55 pm

JackALope wrote:
uwa wrote:Rin's bad end did make more sense to me based on how Hisao had acted, but of course I'm not going to call it the real ending. That's just my personal interpretation.
... isn't how Hisao acted based on your choices, though?
If you're going for 100% completion you have no choices.

JackALope

Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by JackALope » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:18 pm

uwa wrote:
JackALope wrote:
uwa wrote:Rin's bad end did make more sense to me based on how Hisao had acted, but of course I'm not going to call it the real ending. That's just my personal interpretation.
... isn't how Hisao acted based on your choices, though?
It seemed like Hisao always missed important details, and thus didn't even have the option to do the right thing. In other words, I often disliked all the choices available.

The one choice that separated the good end from the big bad end was pretty reasonable, but it just felt like he had already hurt her too much by that point for the good end to happen. It was better for her to go to art school.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with that.

I think the argument in Hisao's room was pretty necessary for their relationship to further develop. I'd say that if Hisao hadn't hurt her like he had, then he'd never be able to realize what it was he had been doing wrong with Rin the entire route; That is, trying to think of her like a normal person. As long as Hisao thought "I can have a normal relationship with this girl." then he would have never been able to get closer to her. He can still have a relationship with her, yes, and he can still love her, yes, and she can still love him back, yes, but he had to realize that it wouldn't be like a normal situation.

Because Rin is, to put it lightly, not normal. I'd go so far as to call her autistic, although I don't know if that was Aura's intent whilst writing the route. She's extremely talented, that much is obvious. But she doesn't know how to communicate with others. That's the very definition of autistic, if I remember correctly; The inability to communicate normally with the majority of people.

That's what makes Rin's route so great, I think. The fact that she doesn't have any arms is sort of an after-thought. I've played all but Lilly's route, but in the other three routes the issues and problems of the girl stem from their disability, or how they got it. Hanako's problems stem from the fire and the scars. Emi's problem stems from the accident that took her father from her. Shizune's problems stem from not being able to talk to people normally.

Rin isn't portrayed as the armless painter. As somebody else said, she's Rin, the painter, who just so happens to not have any arms.

Anyways, I started to ramble there. Where was I? Right.

As long as Hisao thought he could approach Rin like any other person, he'd never be able to close the gap between them, because the normal way of approaching people simply doesn't work with Rin. He had to get angry at her for not being normal, then see Nomiya get angry at her for the same thing, in order to feel ashamed and realize what he's been doing is wrong.

Without that, I don't think, Hisao would have ever been able to truly make the connection with Rin that he did.

JackALope

Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by JackALope » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:21 pm

JackALope wrote:That's what makes Rin's route so great, I think. The fact that she doesn't have any arms is sort of an after-thought. I've played all but Lilly's route, but in the other three routes the issues and problems of the girl stem from their disability, or how they got it. Hanako's problems stem from the fire and the scars. Emi's problem stems from the accident that took her father from her. Shizune's problems stem from not being able to talk to people normally.

Rin isn't portrayed as the armless painter. As somebody else said, she's Rin, the painter, who just so happens to not have any arms.
What I meant by this was:

Rin's problems don't stem from her disability. Her problems are 100% not related to the reason she's at Yamaku. I think that's great, actually. I basically forget by the end of the route that she didn't have any arms, because it didn't matter that she didn't have any arms. I was able to feel that she was a person. She wasn't normal, yes, but not because she didn't have arms, but because of other reasons.

And I'm still rambling. I'll just shut up now.

uwa
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Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by uwa » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:44 pm

JackALope wrote:I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with that.

I think the argument in Hisao's room was pretty necessary for their relationship to further develop. I'd say that if Hisao hadn't hurt her like he had, then he'd never be able to realize what it was he had been doing wrong with Rin the entire route; That is, trying to think of her like a normal person. As long as Hisao thought "I can have a normal relationship with this girl." then he would have never been able to get closer to her. He can still have a relationship with her, yes, and he can still love her, yes, and she can still love him back, yes, but he had to realize that it wouldn't be like a normal situation.
I hated him for not figuring it out before that argument.

I just can't get rid of the feeling that Hisao was a dick and drove her to art school and there was no option for him to not be a dick because he just was a dick.

I know you're probably describing what the story intended to say. But thinking about Rin's story makes me weird.

edit: oh yeah and I'm taking a cripple porno game far too seriously so I kind of automatically lose. I need to take a walk or something.
Emi > Lilly > Misha > Hanako = Rin > Shizune... I might just prefer women who put out a lot.
Mind-stickiness: Hanako > Misha = Shizune > Rin > Emi > Lilly

JackALope

Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by JackALope » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:52 pm

uwa wrote:
JackALope wrote:I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with that.

I think the argument in Hisao's room was pretty necessary for their relationship to further develop. I'd say that if Hisao hadn't hurt her like he had, then he'd never be able to realize what it was he had been doing wrong with Rin the entire route; That is, trying to think of her like a normal person. As long as Hisao thought "I can have a normal relationship with this girl." then he would have never been able to get closer to her. He can still have a relationship with her, yes, and he can still love her, yes, and she can still love him back, yes, but he had to realize that it wouldn't be like a normal situation.
I hated him for not figuring it out before that argument.

I just can't get rid of the feeling that Hisao was a dick and drove her to art school and there was no option for him to not be a dick because he just was a dick.

I know you're probably describing what the story intended to say. But thinking about Rin's story makes me weird.

edit: oh yeah and I'm taking a cripple porno game far too seriously so I kind of automatically lose. I need to take a walk or something.
Don't say that.

Anyways, you can't really say that you wouldn't have acted in the same way. I mean, I'll be the first person to say that I don't think realism in a story is necessarily a good thing, but at the same time I don't think you should act like you're better than Hisao, thinking you'd act differently in his situation. You spend your entire life communicating and connecting normally to people, and then suddenly this girl enters your life who you can't communicate or connect with normally, but who you still want to communicate and connect with.

It would be frustrating. Amazingly frustrating. Maddeningly frustrating. And you'd probably get mad just like Hisao did.

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Akira
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Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by Akira » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:59 pm

uwa wrote:I just can't get rid of the feeling that Hisao was a dick and drove her to art school and there was no option for him to not be a dick because he just was a dick.
Agreed. I thought that too while playing her path.
I know if it was me, I wouldn't have tried to push her into going along with Nomiya's plans for the big exhibition and all that. Especially since she was obviously not too happy about it. I'd have been like "What do YOU want to do?", and I was kind of surprised that wasn't on the list of options.
Still, any story needs some conflict I suppose. And if Hisao wasn't being a dick, we'd never get to see him learning to not be a dick :mrgreen:


I assumed that the true ending was the one where the credit roll had the picture of Raita's original drawing in the background.

Free the Bee
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Re: Rin's Bad End... Her True End?

Post by Free the Bee » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:41 pm

Akira wrote: I know if it was me, I wouldn't have tried to push her into going along with Nomiya's plans for the big exhibition and all that. Especially since she was obviously not too happy about it. I'd have been like "What do YOU want to do?", and I was kind of surprised that wasn't on the list of options.
That bugged me too: I was given three ways of saying exactly the same thing, when it was obvious Rin was uncomfortable with the demands that would be made of her if she accepted. I'd have preferred there to have been no choice at that point, rather than being forced to make a choice I disagreed with.

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