What's up with all the hate?

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Benkei
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Re: What's up with all the hate?

Post by Benkei » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:45 pm

Ukotaku wrote:
Kyou_kun wrote:Sadly, the article is kinda true. Many Japs have been critiscising the game for a long time.

I will post the japanese article for those who can read moonrunes

http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-entry-6443.html
As for Japanese bloggers who are talking about the game, some have unpleasant things to say but not everyone. I'll go through some of the comments that stand out to me from the blog post linked above to show you some examples of what people are saying.

When it comes to ridiculing or hating on the game, many of the comments are pretty juvenile or contemptible. One person writes, "全員チンコ付いてるんですかね" or "I wonder if they've all got dicks." As if that's supposed to be funny. As if that's supposed to be the girls' disability. Another jokingly writes, "俺の嫁は下半身魚だから問題無い" or "My wife's bottom half is a fish's so I've got no problem [with this game]." Stupid humor which doesn't really indicate one way or the other whether he's in favor of the game.

Some of the comments aren't opposed to KS itself but to the very notion of foreigners producing eroges. Writes one commenter, "海外でエロゲなんてつくって大丈夫なのか?また日本バッシングが始まるんだろうな。" or "I wonder if it's okay for them to be making eroges overseas? Makes me wonder if another round of Japan-bashing is about to begin." He seems to be less concerned with what KS is on the inside than with what it is on the outside -- an eroge which, if it proves popular in the West, will raise Westerners' awareness that Glorious Nippon is the land of the erotic visual novel. But ... is that really Katawa Shoujo's fault?

Many people seem to be upset about the name. Writes one commenter, "とりあえずタイトルどうにかしろよ. ムダに敵を作るのはよくない" or "First things first, something's gotta be done about that name! It's not good to pointlessly make enemies," suggesting he's concerned that referring to the girls as katawa is far too inappropriate. Another similarly writes, "もうちょっとネーミングとか考えろよな・・・" saying he wishes that they'd given things like the name of the game a little more thought during development. Mimics another right beneath him, "もうちょいセンスがあるタイトルつけろよwww" or "Give it a name with more sense! lol" And one guy damningly writes, "中身はともかく、タイトルはありえないな" or "Who cares what's inside, that title is just ... there's NO WAY," implying that the title is so controversial that he believes that (Japanese) people would feel bad about playing such a game even if the best game of all time were what was waiting for them. But the title discussion's not all doom and gloom in Japan. One guy optimistically writes, "タイトルは気にしなければ良い作品かもしれないね" or "So long as you don't pay the name any attention, maybe it'll still be a good game?" So there's that, at least.

And finally, some of the comments are quite positive overall. Writes one commenter, "興味はあるが流石に日本語版が出ないことにはどうにもならんな・・・" or "I'm interested but, as you'd expect, I can't do anything about it [i.e. I can't play the game yet] because the Japanese-language version hasn't come out yet." Another more simply writes, "やっとでたね" or "It's finally out." "うわーい", writes one ("Ya~ay!"). One guy longingly wishes for an anime version of the game but figures it's impossible. And one guy writes, "ついに完成したのかぁ・・・海外だからこそ製作できた作品に乾杯" or "So it's finally done, huh?... I'll raise my glass [in a toast] to this finished product precisely because it was done overseas," suggesting that we have friends in Japan, despite all of Sankaku's doom and xenophobia gloom, that are cheering on the devs for a job well done and who are eager to see more Americans, Europeans, Australians, and others in the English-speaking corner of the Internet demonstrate their talents to Japan in the form of more high-quality visual novels like KS.

In conclusion, I would say that the slim majority of the comments on that blog seemed to focus either negatively or neutrally on the game's title but that the rest were either neutral or positive comments overall. Quite a few people were celebrating the games release or were asking about a Japanese language-version, as mentioned above. And many just had things to say that were either neutral or unintelligible. I'll leave you with this last one: one guy says, "なんか けいおんみたいな作品だな" or "Somehow, it reminds me of a K-ON!-like product." I don't really see the resemblance between Yui, Azusa, and Mugi vs. Hanako, Emi, and Lilly, but whatever. :lol:

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Deltamon
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Re: What's up with all the hate?

Post by Deltamon » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:55 pm

Benkei wrote:In conclusion, I would say that the slim majority of the comments on that blog seemed to focus either negatively or neutrally on the game's title but that the rest were either neutral or positive comments overall. Quite a few people were celebrating the games release or were asking about a Japanese language-version, as mentioned above.
What's funny is that the Act 1 has been available in japanese for ages.. So it's not like they've got excuse of not being able to try the game.. As for the name, it's been raising a lot of discussion before, and from what I understood.. The name "Katawa" has been used in japanese as a quite offending word for "disabled", and from what it seems atleast according to those comments, most hatred only goes towards the name not the content. But since the game has japanese name to begin with, I'd say that it's no wonder if they are being insulted by it, if it really has some sort of negative meaning for them.
Hanako = Shizune = Rin = Lilly = Emi
I just don't like categorizing people. Even if Hanako will always be the dearest for me, I still prefer if they all get equal share of love.

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Re: What's up with all the hate?

Post by Guest » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:42 pm

The hate comments got quite a few downthumbs, so i assume it were just a few trolls.

The comment which was related to KS which had the highest rating is now at 4 from 24(it's a another one of the hate comments, so it's good.), so yeah.

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Snelx
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Re: What's up with all the hate?

Post by Snelx » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:57 pm

I guess regardless of whatever game, there are always likes and hates.

Even if i do not like some of the japanese game, i did not bother to camp in 2-chan etc, and post my rage.
and did not bother to sound off my displease.

Anyway, i think since we like KS, just ignore all the rage posts.
they missed out such a good story game, it is their miss. :?
It's kinda funny, I've played a bunch of VN's and for the first time I'm feeling apprehensive about going down another path. I'm thinking weird crap like how will Hanako ever be happy if someones not there for her.......
If Hanako's writer reads this I want you to know that I thank you for giving me this wonderful treasure.

- Rykn

華子 - Hanako - 'flower girl'

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Crud Bonemeal
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Re: What's up with all the hate?

Post by Crud Bonemeal » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:36 am

This actually reminded me of how I first got into KS. I was flipping through TVTropes' freeware games list some years back, looking for some new games to try out, when I find this, and the description (H-game VN featured disabled girls and originating on 4chan) instilled me with morbid curiosity, so after a few weeks, on a subsequent trip through the same section, I caved and took a look, and then downloaded the demo of chapter 1. I was so impressed by the writing and the way it evoked emotion that my previous assumptions were immediately destroyed. Romantic (not always eroge) VNs tend to affect me emotionally more than any other type of fiction, but even by that metric, Katawa Shoujo totally blew my mind. I'm really glad I didn't let the first impression prevent me from looking into it.
"Slab Bulkhead!" "Blast Hardcheese!" "Buff Drinklots!" "Bolt van der Huge!" "Punch Rockgroin!" "Thick Runfast!" "Roll Fizzlebeef!" "Big McLargehuge!" "Bob Johnson! Oh, wait, no, no, sorry."

Free the Bee
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Re: What's up with all the hate?

Post by Free the Bee » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:55 am

In our haste to support the game, let's not get caught in the trap of demonising the whole of Japan based on the comments of trolls, posted on Sankaku by another troll. There's a certain amount of hypocrisy inherent in saying that the Japanese are too bigoted and ignorant to understand the game. The people posting the most ignorant comments are simply trolls, and their comments are no more an accurate reflection of Japanese opinion than the average /b/ troll is of western opinion.

Of the genuine criticism, most actually seems to concern the unfortunate name the game ended up with. This is a genuine concern, and I fear that the main barrier to acceptance of the game in Japan will not be its origin, nor its subject matter, but a name which is patently offensive to many. Sure, there are a ton of shocking eroge doing the rounds in Japan at any given moment, but they tend not to portray themselves as sensitive, intelligent love stories. Many people who would otherwise play and enjoy the game are going to be seriously put off by that title, and that, well, sucks.

Oh, and Gelbooru? Not even remotely Japanese.

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Snelx
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Re: What's up with all the hate?

Post by Snelx » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:21 am

Free the Bee wrote:In our haste to support the game, let's not get caught in the trap of demonising the whole of Japan based on the comments of trolls, posted on Sankaku by another troll. There's a certain amount of hypocrisy inherent in saying that the Japanese are too bigoted and ignorant to understand the game. The people posting the most ignorant comments are simply trolls, and their comments are no more an accurate reflection of Japanese opinion than the average /b/ troll is of western opinion.

Of the genuine criticism, most actually seems to concern the unfortunate name the game ended up with. This is a genuine concern, and I fear that the main barrier to acceptance of the game in Japan will not be its origin, nor its subject matter, but a name which is patently offensive to many. Sure, there are a ton of shocking eroge doing the rounds in Japan at any given moment, but they tend not to portray themselves as sensitive, intelligent love stories. Many people who would otherwise play and enjoy the game are going to be seriously put off by that title, and that, well, sucks.

Oh, and Gelbooru? Not even remotely Japanese.

Yeah. I do like the Japanese.
sample does not represent the population.

and yar, I do not think the japanese uses Gelbooru.
They have pixiv for their needs.
It's kinda funny, I've played a bunch of VN's and for the first time I'm feeling apprehensive about going down another path. I'm thinking weird crap like how will Hanako ever be happy if someones not there for her.......
If Hanako's writer reads this I want you to know that I thank you for giving me this wonderful treasure.

- Rykn

華子 - Hanako - 'flower girl'

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Utumo
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Re: What's up with all the hate?

Post by Utumo » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:04 am

Panty Supervisor wrote:Gelbooru is a great image board with a huge collection, just like the Channel of Sankaku Complex. But for your own mental hygiene, I would recommend you to stick with looking at the nice pictures and refrain from reading any kind of comment or article that you find on these sites.
Agreed. It's like reading Youtube comments. For any sane person there are at least twenty to drown out their intelligent opinion.

Also, I'd like to point out it is only the first page or two that have been touched by this influx of hate (or trolls, however you want to look at it.)

Think of it as the kneejerk reaction. Leave them to their opinions even if they seem extremely closed-minded. They are a very loud minority that just happen to reside on sites such as these.

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Rolanberry
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Re: What's up with all the hate?

Post by Rolanberry » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:15 am

Its kinda funny to hear some of the 'superficial' reasons some of those people don't like the game. its mostly out of ignorance. I say ignorance because it really is due to lack of information about the game.

A fully unaware person might look at the game like this based on extremely little information: hentai visual novel with girls all having some sort of disability.

Even then alot of nay-sayers might scoff if some one where to say "its really about the story" just like I would have some years ago.

But this game, in every way, is about how wrong it is to be superficial. Even playing the game and thinking your NOT going to be superficial and be open minded you might end up still being surprised about some preconceived notions that prove to be un-true Rin's rout comes to mind. Really mid way into act 2 I long forgot that she had no arms, in fact it wasn't even really that important and comes up very rarely.

Its sad some people are upset at the idea of the game and won't be able to experience such an amazing group of stories made by an equal great team. Don't hate them for their ignorance, pity them for what they will be missing.

katamarisuki
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Re: What's up with all the hate?

Post by katamarisuki » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:23 am

I back up Benkei's post on this one. I'm Japanese and a friend referred me to this game. I checked out the Japanese website and comments on the site. People were mainly offended at the name. "Katawa" is one of those words you shouldn't be using and is banned in Japan from it being used on TV, newspapers, etc. It's probably equivalent to a Japanese group naming a game "Retard Girls" and getting flack from US players about the naming. My question then would be to the creators then: "why use the word "katawa"? Is it for shock value? I'm just curious as to why that particular name was chosen. <:/

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Snelx
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Re: What's up with all the hate?

Post by Snelx » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:35 am

katamarisuki wrote:I back up Benkei's post on this one. I'm Japanese and a friend referred me to this game. I checked out the Japanese website and comments on the site. People were mainly offended at the name. "Katawa" is one of those words you shouldn't be using and is banned in Japan from it being used on TV, newspapers, etc. It's probably equivalent to a Japanese group naming a game "Retard Girls" and getting flack from US players about the naming. My question then would be to the creators then: "why use the word "katawa"? Is it for shock value? I'm just curious as to why that particular name was chosen. <:/
It is good to have a Japanese person point of view :)

Just as i predicted the word is forbidden in the Japanese culture!

as to why, there is someone who knows answer and posted somewhere,
i cannot remember where i read it.

But will reply when i found it!
It's kinda funny, I've played a bunch of VN's and for the first time I'm feeling apprehensive about going down another path. I'm thinking weird crap like how will Hanako ever be happy if someones not there for her.......
If Hanako's writer reads this I want you to know that I thank you for giving me this wonderful treasure.

- Rykn

華子 - Hanako - 'flower girl'

INFERTakuya
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Re: What's up with all the hate?

Post by INFERTakuya » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:02 am

katamarisuki wrote:I back up Benkei's post on this one. I'm Japanese and a friend referred me to this game. I checked out the Japanese website and comments on the site. People were mainly offended at the name. "Katawa" is one of those words you shouldn't be using and is banned in Japan from it being used on TV, newspapers, etc. It's probably equivalent to a Japanese group naming a game "Retard Girls" and getting flack from US players about the naming. My question then would be to the creators then: "why use the word "katawa"? Is it for shock value? I'm just curious as to why that particular name was chosen. <:/
Personally, I find that it is somewhat representative of society's reaction to the disabled in general. I'm not saying that everyone thinks the disabled should just die, but that (as shown in this game many times) society in general does not take well to the disabled. Of course, there are many people who could not care less, or who do not treat the disabled with disdain.

But of course, that's never really good for marketing purposes, especially if the word used is taboo.

Still, I don't really see how the name can be changed to bring across the message of the game easily and yet refrain from being offensive...
Endings Obtained

Emi: Bad End|Second Chance|Good End
Hanako: Bad End|Neutral End|Good End
Lilly: Bad End|Good End
Shizune: -In Progress-
Rin:

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Mirage_GSM
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Re: What's up with all the hate?

Post by Mirage_GSM » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:38 am

katamarisuki wrote:My question then would be to the creators then: "why use the word "katawa"? Is it for shock value? I'm just curious as to why that particular name was chosen. <:/
No. Katawa Shouko was the title of the original sketch by Raita (who never had any intention of really making a VN out of this).
When the project took of, none of the devs was fluent enough in Japanese to realize that this title might be considered offensive, and by the time this was pointed out to them it was pointless to change the name, because the project was already too well known under that title.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
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Sore wa himitsu desu.

Goldilurks
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Re: What's up with all the hate?

Post by Goldilurks » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:45 am

Trolls gonna troll.
Some jackass on Gelbooru wrote:Of course I play the game and enjoy to laugh at these pitiful girls, but please leave it next time to the people who actually know how to make a good visual novel like, hmm... the japanese maybe? Or at least include the option to rape these creatures.
They're doing it to get a rise out of the fanbase, that's all.
This one needs to lurk moar. This one lurks too much! Ahh, this one lurks juuuuust enuf.
Katawa Haha: Disability Mothers
From Shizune's Perspective: a fanfic

ardiel

Re: What's up with all the hate?

Post by ardiel » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:54 am

What will be will be. Mistakes and misunderstandings happen.

They don't get it? Well screw them. It's THEIR choice to react that way - a name is just a name and it cannot hurt you. I could understand concern if it were done intentionally, but it wasn't, and has nothing to do with how good the VN is.

If somebody made a game called "Retard Girls" and this person were Japanese and didn't understand how bad the name is, and it were only a mistake to have that name, you know what? I wouldn't care. I'd probably try it out and see how it goes.

I cannot choose how other people make things but I can choose how I react to them - to an extent at least.

Haters gonna hate, as they say.

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