Ask!

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Valjean Lafitte
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Re: Ask!

Post by Valjean Lafitte » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:05 am

Someone was bound to ask about this sooner or later and it might as well be me:

Aura, the developer of the upcoming visual novel For When the Bells Toll just announced that you've given him permission to give Hanako a cameo appearance in his game. Considering this is a VN with a much darker tone than KS'--the dev blog cites "cruel violence and gore" in it's content warnings, and the two main characters are described as a hardcore sadist and a hardcore masochist--should Hanako fans be concerned about how she will be used in the game? I can't speak for anyone else, but a Lovecraft-inspired horror romance is waaayyy at the bottom of my list of places that I would hope to see timid, emotionally-scarred Hanako appear.

Please say something that will calm my imagination, which is running wild with outlandish ideas of how this could suck. :|
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Aura
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Re: Ask!

Post by Aura » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:06 pm

There should be no cause for concern. I gave permission to use Hanako in a fictional poster in one of the background illustrations of the game. Hanako the character will not appear.
<Aura> would you squeeze a warm PVC bottle between your thighs and call it "manaka-chan"
<Suriko> I would do it if it wouldn't be so hard to explain to my parents

Notguest
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Re: Ask!

Post by Notguest » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:17 pm

Mirage_GSM wrote:I'm certain that somebody already did this calculation before, but I just can't find the post, so I just redid the calculation:
The probabilities to get a certain Act I ending by randomly choosing your answers is as follows:

Kenji: 37,5%
Rin: 30,6%
Emi: 23,9%
Shizune: 3,5%
Lilly: 2,3%
Hanako: 2,3%

After Lunch Evolution Theory you will have a chance of a bit more than 18% each to have gained a flag for Shizune respectively Lilly/Hanako path. I.e. 63% chance you won't be able to get on either.
Both chances are again halved in Cold War since you have to pick the same path again - or you will be left with nothing but Emi's or Rin's path.
For Lilly and Hanako you have a 50% chance to split to Kenji's path after that and after that 50% to get to either Lilly's or Hanako's ending.
For Shizune you also have a 50% chance to get the deep end and then - depending on earlier choices - a smaller chance to get back on Emi's path, so Shizune is a bit more likely than Hanako/Lilly.
For Emi you have a 82% chance to not be on either Lilly/Hanako or Shizune path after Cold War. Then you have two 50% choices (down to 20,4%) to get her ending plus the small percentage to get her ending via Shizune's path.
For Rin you get the remaining 61% of the Emi/Rin path divided by two for a Kenji split.
Kenji gets the rest.
There's no way that's right. I was the one who did the calculations before (though sadly I can't find the post offhand either), but Kenji was above 50%. I think you're ignoring the fact that there are several choices which will lock you into the Kenji end even if you're already on the path to a girl.

Nevermind, found it.
Kanji: 50.5% (4654/9216)
Emi: 21.0% (1933/9216)
Rin: 15.3% (1410/9216)
Hanako/Lily
4.6% each (424/9126)
Shizune
4.0% (371/9216)
Last edited by Notguest on Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Valjean Lafitte
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Re: Ask!

Post by Valjean Lafitte » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:20 pm

Aura wrote:There should be no cause for concern. I gave permission to use Hanako in a fictional poster in a background in the game. Hanako the character will not appear.
*whew* Thanks! :D
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"Everything."

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Aura
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Re: Ask!

Post by Aura » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:23 pm

Yeah I don't care to look for my numbers or do the math again myself, but that post about Act 1 probabilities above looks like it can't be right. If you guys want to work it out (possibly actually worthwhile), take it to a new thread.
<Aura> would you squeeze a warm PVC bottle between your thighs and call it "manaka-chan"
<Suriko> I would do it if it wouldn't be so hard to explain to my parents

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Kon22
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Re: Ask!

Post by Kon22 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:00 pm

The numbers aren't really that important, cause people don't choose randomly. Specially on the decisions that can lead you to Emi's route. They're the most likely to choose, if you're playing a "nice" Hisao, and not a pessimistic one.

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Sohtak
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Re: Ask!

Post by Sohtak » Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:22 am

Back with a question I feel might have been asked already years ago.

As writers...does it make you Happy,Creeped out or Concerned the way people have bonded with the girls? And in some cases the side characters like Mutou,Nurse and Yukko.

All these stories about how one girls route changed a persons life, Or another about how the game itself gave people the drive to do something they didn't have before. Like for example "Emi's route inspired me to run and get healthy and I'm doing better than I've ever done" etc etc.

I understand the girls were written in such a way that the player (Reader?) would inevitably click with that ONE girl they can relate too, Or all of them of course.

Nevermind the obvious Waifu aspects, Or does the waifu aspect creep you out as well? Although it's kind of a given with a game like this :P

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Aura
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Re: Ask!

Post by Aura » Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:33 am

Sohtak wrote:As writers...does it make you Happy,Creeped out or Concerned the way people have bonded with the girls?
None of them. I've been around long enough to become insensitive to how fan cultures of fictional characters work. KS isn't special just because I happened to make it.

I guess if I step back and think about it, it's weird. How many of you would casually discuss with, say, your parents what a wonderful girl Hanako is? It is weird, by social norms of the uninitiated. On the other hand, the intensity and longevity of the fan community means that we did something right... though by a measure we ourselves aren't likely to use for "success". I don't think KS is worthy of the adoration it gets, but I recognize that things like this aren't a matter of getting what something deserves.

Ultimately, I suppose it makes me happy after all. Why else would I still keep in touch with the community (even if it's a pretty limited way)? We made something that's meaningful to a whole lot of people, and that's a great thing. In fact, I suspect KS's popularity has made us a little blind to how lucky and blessed we are to have made something so beloved.
<Aura> would you squeeze a warm PVC bottle between your thighs and call it "manaka-chan"
<Suriko> I would do it if it wouldn't be so hard to explain to my parents

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BMFJack
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Re: Ask!

Post by BMFJack » Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:20 am

I was wondering how much background information was decided/discussed for background characters like Mutou or Nurse.

Specifically, is Mutou married/does he have kids?

How old is Nurse?

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Aura
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Re: Ask!

Post by Aura » Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:20 pm

Neither of those details were decided, as they have no bearing to the story.
<Aura> would you squeeze a warm PVC bottle between your thighs and call it "manaka-chan"
<Suriko> I would do it if it wouldn't be so hard to explain to my parents

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Kon22
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Re: Ask!

Post by Kon22 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:02 pm

As the creator of a VN, and just in general, do you think it's necessary for a work, a VN or a book, to be anything more than just something fun, or an excercise on storytelling? Alternatively, do you think a work is 'better' when it has something to say, than when it's just telling a story? This kind of discussion is very common in music and the such, not so much in mediums which involve storytelling, but I'll still ask.

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Aura
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Re: Ask!

Post by Aura » Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:51 pm

Kon22 wrote:As the creator of a VN, and just in general, do you think it's necessary for a work, a VN or a book, to be anything more than just something fun, or an excercise on storytelling? Alternatively, do you think a work is 'better' when it has something to say, than when it's just telling a story? This kind of discussion is very common in music and the such, not so much in mediums which involve storytelling, but I'll still ask.
It's super important to have something to say. If you have nothing to say, how can you write a story? You will end up with a meaningless collection of words. Meaning is fundamental to storytelling. Even almost all stories you think are "just telling a story", even the simplest ones, carry meaning, themes and values. Stories that are "just telling a story" are stuff like the five piggies nursery rhyme, or something a bored 5 year old comes up with.

Now, what I think you're asking about is whether a story needs to have a "message". This is, in my mind, an important thing (or many), value or point of view the author wants to communicate to the reader. It's not necessary. It doesn't automatically make a story better either. However, all other things being equal, a well-crafted message does elevate a story and make it better. Conversely, a badly crafted message makes the story worse than it would otherwise have been. Communicating meaning, or a message, is a very difficult skill to master. If done badly, the work can come off as preachy, confusing, trite or contradictory. That's why writers should always be very acutely aware of what they're saying.
<Aura> would you squeeze a warm PVC bottle between your thighs and call it "manaka-chan"
<Suriko> I would do it if it wouldn't be so hard to explain to my parents

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Re: Ask!

Post by TheHivemind » Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:38 pm

Sohtak wrote: As writers...does it make you Happy,Creeped out or Concerned the way people have bonded with the girls?
Everyone has that one thing they latch on to now and again, and it becomes SUPER IMPORTANT and LIFE-CHANGING for a while, and there's absolutely no telling where it will come from, and there's always someone to shake their head and wonder whether you might not be better served going outside rather than, you know, obsessing over a drawing. But sometimes stories do that to you, and that's okay as long as you don't forget to move on at some point--you're allowed to still love the thing, but all things in moderation, you know?

Frankly, however, I'd be a huge liar if I didn't say that I feel oddly pleased that Emi has got so many people out and running (or claiming to do so, anyway). That's something tangibly good to come out of the whole thing, and that's neat!
Kon22 wrote:As the creator of a VN, and just in general, do you think it's necessary for a work, a VN or a book, to be anything more than just something fun, or an excercise on storytelling? Alternatively, do you think a work is 'better' when it has something to say, than when it's just telling a story? This kind of discussion is very common in music and the such, not so much in mediums which involve storytelling, but I'll still ask.
Fiction is, according to some dead guy whose book I read, "about what it is to be a fucking human being," and so as a result all fiction is about something, either intentionally or not. Setting out to deliver a hard message of truth to the people is a lousy way to write a book, although sometimes it works out okay (see: Invisible Man, one of my favorite books hands down, and, unfortunately, still relevant). You always want your story to be about something, and that something is usually about something very human that you either think you've got figured out, or you're trying to figure out, or maybe it's just an idea that interests you and you want to explore it. Sometimes writing a short story is about flexing a creative muscle ("can I write science fiction" or "can I talk about this thing that bothers me without being explicit about it," or just "can I write porn and have it not be hilariously bad?" (the answer to that last question is a resounding "nope!")), but the good stuff? The stuff that sticks with people? That's going to be the stuff you write where you tried to figure out what it is to be a fucking human being, in some fashion or another.

As a younger man I liked to point to Tolkein's denial that LOTR was anything more than a story for fun as a way of shitting on literary criticism, but Tolkein's stated intent with his whole Middle Earth deal was to give a mythology to Britain, which had sort of never had one, because it abandoned it in favor of obsessing over Rome's mythology--and what is mythology but a series of stories trying to explain what the fuck is going on in the world? Plus I mean dude had some heavy shit to work through after watching literally all his friends die in the first world war, so there's going to be a lot of people carrying on in the face of daunting, impossible, depressing-ass odds (I mean the elves literally refer to their whole time in Middle Earth as the Long Defeat, holy SHIT my boy Tolkein is a depressing dude). Even Oscar Wilde, with all his aestheticism and "art for art's sake" wound up writing Dorian Grey, which is basically a big ol' book about how sooner or later a rotten fuck is going to be exposed as a rotten fuck (in simplistic terms), so I mean, dude was talking out of his ass a little.

Like Aura said, though, there's a difference between being about something and wanting to deliver a message--although I tend to think that the best message books and the best books without messages kind of share the same ranking, if only because even the books without a message are still saying something about being alive, and that's worth looking at and discussing and hey, it can even change your whole goddamn outlook on life.

When we sat down to do KS, we settled on the idea that our various heroines would all be fully fleshed people, and their disabilities would not be the center of whatever conflict they had to overcome in order to send the message that these were just people like the rest of us. I'm not sure how successful I was on that score--Emi's conflict is sort of centered around the events that caused her disability, after all--but even we started out with a message of sorts.

Everything means something, even "storytelling exercises." The measure of whether or not they are any good is partially reliant on whether or not the person writing realizes that and pays attention to what they're doing. Otherwise it's poorly written crap.

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Re: Ask!

Post by Ryusashi » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:59 pm

I enjoyed each of the chars, but one has so many memorable quotes that its almost impossible not to laugh when you say them: kenji. My god he is hilarious, and it lead me to wonder, where did he come from? Is he a representation of someone you know/a group? The feminist conspiracy is strong today because he is my hero! Kinda same question, but when you created each of the girls, did you look to someone you knew that had that personality? Fleshing out the characters was a great way to start, and it shows with each character.
"In order to understand, you must first understand how to understand. You can't know without knowing how you know. Same principle."
"Think about this; if I give you a lemon, is that life giving you lemons? Yes because I'm alive. But imagine what you can create with what life gives you. Now you have a weapon to shoot into peoples eyes, or make lemonade." Random quotes ive made

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Aura
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Re: Ask!

Post by Aura » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:55 pm

Kenji is somewhat similar to the online persona of his creator, A22. Not really based on, but the similarities are there even if Kenji is very exaggerated and cartoonish.

To my knowledge none of the characters are based on any actual or fictional people we know. All of them are influenced by hundreds of sources, of course.
<Aura> would you squeeze a warm PVC bottle between your thighs and call it "manaka-chan"
<Suriko> I would do it if it wouldn't be so hard to explain to my parents

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