Ask!

A forum for general discussion of the game: Open to all punters
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Aura
>has heterochromia
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Re: Ask!

Post by Aura » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:24 am

Some stuff delta did:
- The entire user interface. The beige colour scheme and the textures and borders you are familiar with are his doing.
- The original opening movie, of which the current one is just an animated version.
- The implementation of all visual effects, and the concept of many of them. In particular, the scene with Rin sleeping in classroom, the spinning CG when Hisao and Rin are smoking, Emi's track scene and the scene with Shizune on the rooftop with fireworks are some examples that come to mind.
- The sprite direction! This is one of the "invisible" things in a VN production. Compare how the sprites are presented in KS vs [generic_OELVN]. There's literally a method, or style, that delta does, guided by principles derived from movie directing. Same goes for CG direction.
- He won't forgive if I don't mention this: He drew a CG for KS! The crayon drawing of child Hanako is his handiwork.
- He was the "fifth Beatle" of the writing team, frequently taking part in story discussions. His vehement objections prevented many tragic abominations of writing ideas from staying in the game (none of which I want to talk about, lest shameful memories resurface)

I read a (possibly not serious) post in the thread you're talking about, positing something like "delta's contribution is inconsequential because it's not directly related to the feels KS delivered". That's laughable. Writers of the caliber of me, Suriko or anyone in 4LS are dime a dozen and artists of the quality of our staff art team are not uncommon either. However, I am pretty confident that the number of people who could even approach doing what delta did for KS is negligible. The specific combination of his visual directing prowess, sense of storytelling, graphic design skill, willingness to learn to code and drive to go the distance is something I've not seen any other individual possess. Sure, 4LS is much stronger than the sum of its parts, KS would've been different had even one of us been absent or replaced, and all of us did so much more than what our simple job descriptions state, but the fact remains had delta been assasinated mid-project, we would've had to recruit three to five people to do his job.
<Aura> would you squeeze a warm PVC bottle between your thighs and call it "manaka-chan"
<Suriko> I would do it if it wouldn't be so hard to explain to my parents

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Rikabro
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Re: Ask!

Post by Rikabro » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:40 am

Thanks. Obviously it's not easy to quantify the contribution of a person operating in such a general capacity. It's easy enough to say something like "Suriko wrote Lilly's route," but "Delta did a bit of everything" just makes you wonder (out of curiosity, not skepticism) what it was that he did. I guess it's not easy to frame that question without giving the impression that I'm trying to undermine his role in the project. It's just something that I think is interesting because it raises matters that aren't really common knowledge. I can't speak for the person who originally (perhaps rudely) asked him it in the thread, it was just a question that stood out to me because I didn't know the answer.
Aura wrote:His vehement objections prevented many tragic abominations of writing ideas from staying in the game (none of which I want to talk about, lest shameful memories resurface)
That's really too bad, because that's exactly the kind of thing I would have been interested in hearing about. I think I can understand where you're coming from though.
Writer for Familiarity. I also have an anime blog.

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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Ask!

Post by Mirage_GSM » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:19 pm

Rikabro wrote:Well, I said he doesn't, not that he shouldn't. You can certainly take for granted his impact on the finished product but it's interesting to know more specifically what was the nature of his input.
You're right, maybe it's more obvious to me, because I've seen his work instead of simply experiencing it...
Every change of background, character posture or expression, character movement on the screen, change in music piece or volume etc. requires a line of code which has been done by Delta.
To give you a rough idea: The scene at Emi's house (Just because it's the one I'm translating at the moment) has almost as many lines of directing code as it has lines of dialogue. And that is a scene with only three characters and hardly any effects.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

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Josh_Mac
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Re: Ask!

Post by Josh_Mac » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:10 am

I have a question just kinda for whoever was in charge as far as accountability goes.

Reading the archived version of the forum (I hope you guys don't mind; considering it wasn't removed I assume it's not an issue), I notice you guys set a lot of "arbitrary deadlines" and such. Were these literally just like "hey let's have such-and-such done by X date," or was there some penalty for not meeting the deadlines? I ask because I'm in a similar situation, with a group of people working non-profit on a similar project. However, there's not really any motivator to make people meet deadlines, save personal drive, and I'm curious how you guys made sure everyone was on top of things.

Thanks in advance!

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Suriko
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Re: Ask!

Post by Suriko » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:02 am

Josh_Mac wrote:I have a question just kinda for whoever was in charge as far as accountability goes.

Reading the archived version of the forum (I hope you guys don't mind; considering it wasn't removed I assume it's not an issue), I notice you guys set a lot of "arbitrary deadlines" and such. Were these literally just like "hey let's have such-and-such done by X date," or was there some penalty for not meeting the deadlines? I ask because I'm in a similar situation, with a group of people working non-profit on a similar project. However, there's not really any motivator to make people meet deadlines, save personal drive, and I'm curious how you guys made sure everyone was on top of things.

Thanks in advance!
Deadlines don't work. We toyed with a few ideas during the development of KS, but nothing stuck and we pretty much gave up on artificial motivators by the time there were a couple of years left.

In the end, there are only three things that'll motivate a developer - personal motivation that's up to themselves, a paycheck, or standing behind them with a gun. KS was free, and to my knowledge at least didn't end up with weaponry pointed at anyone to work (even if a few developers would dearly have liked to book a flight and done so for some), so that leaves option 1. Over the years, we developed a sense of duty to each other to pull through, and between many of us there was also a sense of friendship, and that's what got most to do their stuff.

Find a talented developer, make sure they're someone you can at least tolerate working beside, and hope they have the internal motivation to work. That's all you can do, and is also why the vast majority of free projects fail.

retglu
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Re: Ask!

Post by retglu » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:04 pm

Probable longshot, I remember seeing some hand-written notes on Hanako's path (crud's I guess?) somewhere on the public internet. Used the nickname 'Hana' throughout, mentioned an audiophile hobby and some old friends among other things. Went through crud's blog and recent posts here and whatever sensible search queries I could think of, no dice. Anyone know?

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cpl_crud
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Re: Ask!

Post by cpl_crud » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:18 am

retglu wrote:Probable longshot, I remember seeing some hand-written notes on Hanako's path (crud's I guess?) somewhere on the public internet. Used the nickname 'Hana' throughout, mentioned an audiophile hobby and some old friends among other things. Went through crud's blog and recent posts here and whatever sensible search queries I could think of, no dice. Anyone know?

I vaugely remember scanning something to that effect a long time ago. I think I found it in a notebook that I was using at work at the time.

I will admit that at the time I had put up a bunch of things about Hanako that were shameless self-insertions, but they weren't intended to be that way. I was using examples from my world to illustrate some ideas that I had, but then thigns got a little carried away.


Should I find those notes again I may scan them again, but I'm not about to go through the five or so pre-tablet notbooks that I used from those days...
My Novel - Now available The Zemlya Conspiracy
Blog: http://cplcrud.WordPress.com

------
<Suriko> Crud would be patting Hanako's head
<Suriko> In a non-creepy fatherly way
<NicolArmarfi> crud is trying to dress hanako up like miku and attempting to get her to pose for him in headphones and he burns money

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Pseudogenesis
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Re: Ask!

Post by Pseudogenesis » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:04 am

Aura wrote: - He won't forgive if I don't mention this: He drew a CG for KS! The crayon drawing of child Hanako is his handiwork.

That CG made the novel.
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Shockproof Jamo
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Re: Ask!

Post by Shockproof Jamo » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:27 pm

Aura wrote:the spinning CG when Hisao and Rin are smoking,
This "Marlboro-moment" is my absolute favourite moment in the game where the visuals are concerned, so my compliments to the chef.
Aura wrote:The crayon drawing of child Hanako
This reminds me again: Were there ever any plans during development to possibly create and show proper flashbacks of Emi's and Hanako's accidents in glorious, fully detailed CG?

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cpl_crud
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Re: Ask!

Post by cpl_crud » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:43 pm

Shockproof Jamo wrote:
Aura wrote:the spinning CG when Hisao and Rin are smoking,
This "Marlboro-moment" is my absolute favourite moment in the game where the visuals are concerned, so my compliments to the chef.
Aura wrote:The crayon drawing of child Hanako
This reminds me again: Were there ever any plans during development to possibly create and show proper flashbacks of Emi's and Hanako's accidents in glorious, fully detailed CG?

I did write a scene for one of the older Hanako paths that detailed the fire, however it clashed with Suriko's version of Act 3/4 so it was cut.
My Novel - Now available The Zemlya Conspiracy
Blog: http://cplcrud.WordPress.com

------
<Suriko> Crud would be patting Hanako's head
<Suriko> In a non-creepy fatherly way
<NicolArmarfi> crud is trying to dress hanako up like miku and attempting to get her to pose for him in headphones and he burns money

haname
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Re: Ask!

Post by haname » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:25 pm

hey...can i ask if the 4leafstudios will make a part2/continuation of katawa shoujo?? :D

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Bacon Elemental
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Re: Ask!

Post by Bacon Elemental » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:55 pm

haname wrote:hey...can i ask if the 4leafstudios will make a part2/continuation of katawa shoujo?? :D
Suriko wrote:Q: Will there be a fandisc, sequel, or prequel to Katawa Shoujo?
A: No. There will be no other work in any way related to Katawa Shoujo.
Here you go. :)

Great Cthulhu
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Re: Ask!

Post by Great Cthulhu » Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:45 am

To Aura:

Was there any reason you were inspired you to use the different dialog windows and interfaces that show up in Rin's route, such as the white screen one with "Passing of Time" playing?
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Aura
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Re: Ask!

Post by Aura » Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:33 am

Great Cthulhu wrote:To Aura:

Was there any reason you were inspired you to use the different dialog windows and interfaces that show up in Rin's route, such as the white screen one with "Passing of Time" playing?
Well, effects in general are used for added impact, to catch attention. As for why the specific ones, there are no big reasons. They fit the situations they are in, follow conventions (the common visual "language"), and so on.
<Aura> would you squeeze a warm PVC bottle between your thighs and call it "manaka-chan"
<Suriko> I would do it if it wouldn't be so hard to explain to my parents

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OtakuNinja
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Re: Ask!

Post by OtakuNinja » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:28 am

Great Cthulhu wrote:To Aura:

Was there any reason you were inspired you to use the different dialog windows and interfaces that show up in Rin's route, such as the white screen one with "Passing of Time" playing?
I don't remember seeing different dialog windows? :?
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