Ask!

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TheHivemind
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Re: Ask!

Post by TheHivemind » Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:26 pm

OutofBlues wrote:
TheHivemind wrote:
rterman wrote:Do you have any interest in interactive fiction outside the domain of VNs?
It was (and to some extent, remains) a hobby horse of mine. I even wrote a good section of my Master's dissertation on the subject, which, in case you are curious, turned out to be academic suicide.
Would you be comfortable explaining why the topic of interactive fiction was academic suicide?
It is awfully difficult to convince a department full of Shakespeare and Byron Shelly devotees that Zork or Homestuck have real literary merit.

By awful I mean "basically impossible."

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Pascalla
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Re: Ask!

Post by Pascalla » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:06 am

Aura wrote:"Almost"? Understatement of the week there. I think being obsessive and "crazy" is just pretty standard for being a fan of something. It's not really an issue for me personally. I mean, sure I occasionally find the fandom weird, and it's occasionally hard to interact with the fans because I don't get the fan mindset, but whatever. That could go for anyone.
I find myself thinking about this reply very often.
What exactly did you mean by not understanding the fan mindset?
Were you referring to the fan mindset for Katawa Shoujo or fan mindsets in general?
For either, would you mind pointing out what isn't understandable or explaining a bit?

I had always assumed that everyone was at least a fan of something.
I've met a couple of people that say they don't understand fan mindsets in general, so I've become a bit interested in such a view point whether it's specific or not.

EDIT: I don't want to take up more space in the actual thread; I'll just edit this post.
Your reply has really helped me understand what you and other folks have been saying about not understanding the fan mindset.
Thank you very much for answering my question!
Last edited by Pascalla on Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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delta
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Re: Ask!

Post by delta » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:37 am

TheHivemind wrote: It is awfully difficult to convince a department full of Shakespeare and Byron Shelly devotees that Zork or Homestuck have real literary merit.
It's awfully difficult to convince ANYONE of that, mostly for the reason that it's laughably absurd.
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Re: Ask!

Post by Aura » Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:59 pm

Pascalla wrote:
Aura wrote:"Almost"? Understatement of the week there. I think being obsessive and "crazy" is just pretty standard for being a fan of something. It's not really an issue for me personally. I mean, sure I occasionally find the fandom weird, and it's occasionally hard to interact with the fans because I don't get the fan mindset, but whatever. That could go for anyone.
I find myself thinking about this reply very often.
What exactly did you mean by not understanding the fan mindset?
Were you referring to the fan mindset for Katawa Shoujo or fan mindsets in general?
For either, would you mind pointing out what isn't understandable or explaining a bit?

I had always assumed that everyone was at least a fan of something.
I've met a couple of people that say they don't understand fan mindsets in general, so I've become a bit interested in such a view point whether it's specific or not.
Of course I understand the fan phenomenon. What I meant is that it's so apart from what I'm like that it feels strange, like anything different from ourselves does. I just don't get caught with a piece of art once I'm done with it, even if I liked it a ton or it made a great impact. I could call myself a fan of something, like an author who I like and whose entire production I've read, maybe even own. But it'd only mean I like that stuff a lot. I generally don't write nor read fanfiction, draw fanart, put up posters in my apartment, buy merchandise, wear or use stuff branded with the work, seek out other people to talk about them, not even reread the books (or whatever). A fan does. Fans, to some extent, define their identity and lifestyle through what they like. Some more, some less, but that is what makes a fan.

Something that's probably important to note is that I'm not judging it to be bad, or even absolutely weird. It's just not what I'm like. KS fandom isn't really different in this regard. I was talking about fandom in general.
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Re: Ask!

Post by Lianam » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:59 pm

Aura wrote:"Almost"? Understatement of the week there. I think being obsessive and "crazy" is just pretty standard for being a fan of something. It's not really an issue for me personally. I mean, sure I occasionally find the fandom weird, and it's occasionally hard to interact with the fans because I don't get the fan mindset, but whatever. That could go for anyone.
Well, the word "fan" is an abbreviation of the word "fanatic".

I find it funny that you don't get the fan mindset though. After all, you did spend years working on a project that was based off of piece of artwork. I guess if you want to understand fandom you should try to understand why you stuck with writing for KS. I think that there's a lot of parallels to be drawn.
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Re: Ask!

Post by Aura » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:32 am

Lianam wrote:
Aura wrote:"Almost"? Understatement of the week there. I think being obsessive and "crazy" is just pretty standard for being a fan of something. It's not really an issue for me personally. I mean, sure I occasionally find the fandom weird, and it's occasionally hard to interact with the fans because I don't get the fan mindset, but whatever. That could go for anyone.
Well, the word "fan" is an abbreviation of the word "fanatic".

I find it funny that you don't get the fan mindset though. After all, you did spend years working on a project that was based off of piece of artwork. I guess if you want to understand fandom you should try to understand why you stuck with writing for KS. I think that there's a lot of parallels to be drawn.
I think any parallels would be pretty flimsy. I certainly didn't stick with KS because I liked RAITA's picture, or really even the setting we built.
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Re: Ask!

Post by Jobriq » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:08 am

Lianam wrote:
Aura wrote:"Almost"? Understatement of the week there. I think being obsessive and "crazy" is just pretty standard for being a fan of something. It's not really an issue for me personally. I mean, sure I occasionally find the fandom weird, and it's occasionally hard to interact with the fans because I don't get the fan mindset, but whatever. That could go for anyone.
Well, the word "fan" is an abbreviation of the word "fanatic".

I find it funny that you don't get the fan mindset though. After all, you did spend years working on a project that was based off of piece of artwork. I guess if you want to understand fandom you should try to understand why you stuck with writing for KS. I think that there's a lot of parallels to be drawn.
But viewing something from the perspective of a write is entirely different than that of a reader, especially since writers tend to be highly critical of their own work. (Most everything I've written is "poopoo garbage" according to myself)
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Re: Ask!

Post by Lianam » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:12 pm

Aura wrote:
Lianam wrote:
Aura wrote:"Almost"? Understatement of the week there. I think being obsessive and "crazy" is just pretty standard for being a fan of something. It's not really an issue for me personally. I mean, sure I occasionally find the fandom weird, and it's occasionally hard to interact with the fans because I don't get the fan mindset, but whatever. That could go for anyone.
Well, the word "fan" is an abbreviation of the word "fanatic".

I find it funny that you don't get the fan mindset though. After all, you did spend years working on a project that was based off of piece of artwork. I guess if you want to understand fandom you should try to understand why you stuck with writing for KS. I think that there's a lot of parallels to be drawn.
I think any parallels would be pretty flimsy. I certainly didn't stick with KS because I liked RAITA's picture, or really even the setting we built.
In which case, here's a question:
What did cause you to stick with the project?
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Re: Ask!

Post by Aura » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:22 pm

Lianam wrote: In which case, here's a question:
What did cause you to stick with the project?
Writing is fun, working on a project like this is fun, friends at 4LS and who I've otherwise met through KS are great people. Also giving up would've been losing and shameful.
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Re: Ask!

Post by TheHivemind » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:06 pm

delta wrote:
TheHivemind wrote: It is awfully difficult to convince a department full of Shakespeare and Byron Shelly devotees that Zork or Homestuck have real literary merit.
It's awfully difficult to convince ANYONE of that, mostly for the reason that it's laughably absurd.
In the world of postmodernism, EVERYTHING has literary merit.

Even Zork.

Homestuck is easier to argue for, if only because of its place in popular culture, its self-aware commentary of its own popularity, its use of interactivity to immerse readers in the world, its traditional themes of growing up and dealing with parents and love, etc. etc. etc. Oh, and its use of the medium in which it is presented in order to transmit particular parts of meaning or narrative that would be, if not impossible, at least more difficult to execute through printed matter.
rterman wrote:Hivemind: Did you do any "hands-on research" for Emi's track shed scene?
Nope, I stole the rather painful ending wholesale from Erika Moen's Dar and the rest of it was just a collection of cliches from other (poorly written) erotica (the amount of time I spent reading really shitty fanfiction as a direct result of needing more ways to describe sticking a dick in a butt is, at this point, incalculable).

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Re: Ask!

Post by TacticalBacon » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:58 am

What was the hardest thing to write for the game?
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Re: Ask!

Post by TheHivemind » Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:56 pm

TacticalBacon wrote:What was the hardest thing to write for the game?
For me it was either the sexy bits, because it is (and was probably even more so three years ago or however long it's been) almost impossible to write sex without it seeming awkward or cliche or just plain Bad, or the really emotional bits.

Which is why all of the sexy bits in Emi's path are brief and, when possible, take conversational digressions to discuss clouds, who blushed and when, and whether or not socks in bed are like, a thing you should ever allow. It is also why the scene in the track shed is so... unique.

It is also why all the emotional bits are equally brief and rely heavily on the soundtrack and art and all the work Delta did to make the sprites move around and shit.

Everything else was, if not easier, at least less stressful.

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Re: Ask!

Post by Steinherz » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:01 pm

TheHivemind wrote:It is also why the scene in the track shed is so... unique.
I remember reading somewhere that the track shed scene (specifically the "anal") was something the writers did something like drawing straws, and you got the short stick.
May I ask: How awkward was it to write that scene? Also, I'm curious: What was your response to finding out you were the one writing that scene?
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Re: Ask!

Post by Aura » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:07 pm

Steinherz wrote:
TheHivemind wrote:It is also why the scene in the track shed is so... unique.
I remember reading somewhere that the track shed scene (specifically the "anal") was something the writers did something like drawing straws, and you got the short stick.
May I ask: How awkward was it to write that scene? Also, I'm curious: What was your response to finding out you were the one writing that scene?
It wasn't drawing straws. That'd be crazy and stupid. We basically tried to dare/egg either Hive or 22 for months to include a sexual experimentation scene in their routes (theirs were the only routes where that was viable). Hivemind finally caved in.
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Re: Ask!

Post by TheHivemind » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:06 pm

Aura wrote:
Steinherz wrote:
TheHivemind wrote:It is also why the scene in the track shed is so... unique.
I remember reading somewhere that the track shed scene (specifically the "anal") was something the writers did something like drawing straws, and you got the short stick.
May I ask: How awkward was it to write that scene? Also, I'm curious: What was your response to finding out you were the one writing that scene?
It wasn't drawing straws. That'd be crazy and stupid. We basically tried to dare/egg either Hive or 22 for months to include a sexual experimentation scene in their routes (theirs were the only routes where that was viable). Hivemind finally caved in.
Yeah as I recall there were like a solid two months of getting dared to do it before I said "fine, fuck it, I'll write it." This was not too far after one of my sudden, unexplained disappearances (of which there were... three, I think) from the project for a while, so I was a little more willing to take one for the team, as it were, in lieu of actually apologizing for being a dickhead.

I wouldn't say it was "awkward" to write the scene, if only because it didn't take me too long to decide that the best way to go about it would be to make it the sort of messy, embarrassing, confused mess that generally comes from new sexual experiences rather than going the usual route of having everyone fuck like a porn star. Not just because I briefly attempted a more traditional take on it and couldn't stop laughing, but also because I viewed it as a challenge to write something that would cause a different reaction than either "oh god that's terrible" or "I'MA WHIP OUT MY COCK AND BEAT IT LIKE IT OWES ME MONEY."

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