Rin's Path discussion *spoilers*

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Dream
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Re: Rin's Path discussion *spoilers*

Post by Dream » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:00 pm

Xanatos wrote:How is that not a great introduction? That's exactly how one would see her if they didn't know any better and Hisao doesn't know any better.
In a way, this pretty much applies to all the girls if not all the characters, Rin just being the more extreme example of all.
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Dullfinn
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Re: Rin's Path discussion *spoilers*

Post by Dullfinn » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:22 pm

Dream wrote:In a way, this pretty much applies to all the girls if not all the characters, Rin just being the more extreme example of all.
I don't think it does. I mean, no-one ever complains they got the wrong expression of ANY other girl in the game?

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Oddball
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Re: Rin's Path discussion *spoilers*

Post by Oddball » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:27 pm

Dullfinn wrote:
Dream wrote:In a way, this pretty much applies to all the girls if not all the characters, Rin just being the more extreme example of all.
I don't think it does. I mean, no-one ever complains they got the wrong expression of ANY other girl in the game?
I think it does. I'd say that no girl is exactly who you think she is in Act 1.
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Xanatos
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Re: Rin's Path discussion *spoilers*

Post by Xanatos » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:28 pm

Dullfinn wrote:
Dream wrote:In a way, this pretty much applies to all the girls if not all the characters, Rin just being the more extreme example of all.
I don't think it does. I mean, no-one ever complains they got the wrong expression of ANY other girl in the game?
No one you've seen...
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
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Dullfinn
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Re: Rin's Path discussion *spoilers*

Post by Dullfinn » Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:27 pm

Well, do tell, Xanatos. What have those claimed wrong impressions been? That Lilly was cruel? Shizune was shy...?

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Xanatos
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Re: Rin's Path discussion *spoilers*

Post by Xanatos » Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:29 pm

Dullfinn wrote:Well, do tell, Xanatos. What have those claimed wrong impressions been? That Lilly was cruel? Shizune was shy...?
I'm not going to sit here and explain what KS already explains in its routes.
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
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Oddball
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Re: Rin's Path discussion *spoilers*

Post by Oddball » Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:24 pm

Dullfinn wrote:Well, do tell, Xanatos. What have those claimed wrong impressions been? That Lilly was cruel? Shizune was shy...?
For starters...

Emi is always happy and energetic and nothing ever bothers her.
Lilly is perfect.
Hanako needs protection.
Misha acts like Misha.
Shizune has her act together and knows what she's doing.
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Dullfinn
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Re: Rin's Path discussion *spoilers*

Post by Dullfinn » Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:28 pm

Oddball wrote:For starters...
Thank you, Oddball, for taking the time to state what others apparently thought was too obvious. And now, with your list, I can see where you are coming from. But even still I can't really agree. To me, Rin was always the one (and only) who didn't seem to fit her initial image, at all. (Perhaps the fact, that I later disliked her true image, has something to do with this, but whatever.) It's probably true that writing her "like that" (goofy and crazy) for a whole route could have not been done, or would have been pointless. In fact, this was probably true with Misha, too. Sadly, they did still try something with her, and it ruined Shizune's route in the process. As for the other girls, I think Lilly seemed, and indeed was, a Mary Sue. The things with Hanako didn't surprise me at all, either, and neither did Emi's. Shizune is the only one I couldn't figure out from the getgo - and sadly it pretty much stayed that way, too. In her bad end she admits her failings, but everything is still left hanging, which I found a little dissapointing.

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Oddball
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Re: Rin's Path discussion *spoilers*

Post by Oddball » Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:35 pm

I'd say Rin does stay "goofy and crazy" but it's the situation that changes. You start to see how being the "crazy person" isn't a good thing and eventually learn that Rin doesn't want to be that way anyway.
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Denouement
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Re: Rin's Path discussion *spoilers*

Post by Denouement » Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:05 pm

I agree with Oddball, Rin retains consistency in my view. In fact her character has the most unity to me because she most of all seems to have the most acute personality, as in it is incredibly easy to describe how she is and only requiring little time being around her. The only change is the existential crisis (the dilemma) rises and then falls, because of the nature of the problem, it actually involved in her character not changing, whereas in a typical story you'd demand development in the dimensions of the character in order to signify the epiphanies and experiences made during the climax and the path leading up to it.

As for Misha, they didn't really change her so much as try to explain why she was there, providing some necessary back story for her, the path wanting that to be crucial to the storyline. Perhaps that was a good idea because justifying Misha's role deserves a bit more attention than it otherwise would have obtained if it wasn't pivotal information, and also like all characters in Shizune's route, it helps to understand her character (something particularly unique about her path).

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lukesrp
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Re: Rin's Path discussion *spoilers*

Post by lukesrp » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:34 pm

Could someone please explain Rin's endings to me?

I found that when I was playing it I never really became highly interested in her story, she always just seemed really dysfunctional and hard to talk to - She never seemed quite there.

I mean she never really seemed incredibly realistic to me as she seemed to lack an extreme case of empathy and that really threw me off, as most of the other characters seem like real Human beings as actually seem to feel for Hisao early and throughout their own arcs, I got the impression Rin only really starts caring towards the end of Act 4? Otherwise I just felt she was lost in her own world and really didn't seemed to care about anyone else.

I may be wrong, I may have just interpreted some of the things differently to the rest of you, but if someone could explain exactly happens in the endings that would be extremely helpful.
Hanako>>>Lilly>>>Emi>>>Shizune>>>Rin

Did someone say Chrono Trigger?

"The Characters resonate with you because you recognize your flaws and desires and triumphs and victories, and those of the loved ones you know and care about. You want to make them happy, because you want them to be happy, because you know and are them, and In some way you believe everyone you love deserves to be happy"

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Xanatos
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Re: Rin's Path discussion *spoilers*

Post by Xanatos » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:01 pm

lukesrp wrote:Could someone please explain Rin's endings to me?

I found that when I was playing it I never really became highly interested in her story, she always just seemed really dysfunctional and hard to talk to - She never seemed quite there.

I mean she never really seemed incredibly realistic to me as she seemed to lack an extreme case of empathy and that really threw me off, as most of the other characters seem like real Human beings as actually seem to feel for Hisao early and throughout their own arcs, I got the impression Rin only really starts caring towards the end of Act 4? Otherwise I just felt she was lost in her own world and really didn't seemed to care about anyone else.

I may be wrong, I may have just interpreted some of the things differently to the rest of you, but if someone could explain exactly happens in the endings that would be extremely helpful.
What you're describing is far more realistic than you might think. I've never personally seen a blue potato but I wouldn't say they're unrealistic. Quite frankly, as someone who endures that problem myself, I'm a bit irritated at the insinuation.

Rin IS hard to talk to because people don't understand her and she can't always communicate very well. A large part of her path is attempting to force understanding where there simply isn't any. Hisao tries to make Rin fit into his idea of what a person should be while Rin constantly tries to fit what others think she should be. This will either fail miserably for both of them or (in the good end) they'll learn to just accept what is. Rin's path, moreso than the rest, is about accepting people. You don't have to understand everything about a person to accept them.

"...most of the other characters seem like real Human beings as actually seem to feel for Hisao early and throughout their own arcs, I got the impression Rin only really starts caring towards the end of Act 4?" - This game isn't about the girls "feeling" for Hisao. If you're after that, go find a standard dating sim. While that basic element is still present in KS, there are deeper intentions to these paths. She is lost in her own world. More than that, she's drowning in it. Whether she escapes or not is the ultimate result of Hisao's (and thus your) choices.

Also, Rin has three endings. One bad, one neutral, one good. Did you get them all? If so, go on and check the summary in spoilers. If not, keep playing.

In the bad, Hisao refuses to just accept and badgers her constantly about understanding and how she never makes any sense to anyone. She throws him out and it ends there, unresolved with Rin on a likely deadly path.

In the neutral, Rin basically just gives up and goes off to some art school because Nomiya says it's what she should do. Again, her problems are unresolved, but there's no heavy hint of future suicide in this one.

In the good, instead of constantly badgering her and trying to make her fit into a mold he can understand, Hisao learns to accept her as-is. Rin does the same and quits struggling to fit everyone else's ideas, learning to just be content with herself. This end resolves the overall conflict.

To tie that earlier drowning analogy to the endings: In the bad, she drowns. In the neutral, she doesn't drown but still stays trapped, essentially forever treading water. In the good, she's pulled out.



Also, welcome to the forum. Enjoy your stay and the rest of the game.
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."

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lukesrp
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Re: Rin's Path discussion *spoilers*

Post by lukesrp » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:32 pm

Xanatos wrote:"...most of the other characters seem like real Human beings as actually seem to feel for Hisao early and throughout their own arcs, I got the impression Rin only really starts caring towards the end of Act 4?" - This game isn't about the girls "feeling" for Hisao. If you're after that, go find a standard dating sim. While that basic element is still present in KS, there are deeper intentions to these paths. She is lost in her own world. More than that, she's drowning in it. Whether she escapes or not is the ultimate result of Hisao's (and thus your) choices.
Thanks Xanatos, that clear up quite a lot, I don't think I really quite explained what I meant by feel. In all of the arc the Girls begin to open up and change to become the people they really are during Act 3. Where as I never thought Rin really seemed to open up or share some of her deeper and/or darker inner demons until right towards the end, and even then I still felt like nothing had happened.

I know that Rin's arc is supposed to be about learning to accept her, but I just never really got into that as I thought she always just seemed like she lacked empathy and never really knew what she was doing.

I'm not expecting the game to be about the girls "feelings" for Hisao, but more how their relationships change and grow from their interactions, and I felt like neither Rin or Hisao really take in steps in growing as people as Rin pretty much stays the same the whole narrative and Hisao just has to learn to accept her.
Hanako>>>Lilly>>>Emi>>>Shizune>>>Rin

Did someone say Chrono Trigger?

"The Characters resonate with you because you recognize your flaws and desires and triumphs and victories, and those of the loved ones you know and care about. You want to make them happy, because you want them to be happy, because you know and are them, and In some way you believe everyone you love deserves to be happy"

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Denouement
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Re: Rin's Path discussion *spoilers*

Post by Denouement » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:43 pm

Rin reminds me of the feeling inside of me that knows that I couldn't still be me and be in a relationship with another (hence her fearing Hisao's kindness), nor could I still be me and do what others expect of me (the art part of the story). The ending ultimately reveals that one can remain the same, without having to destroy what they are, as long as their is acceptance.

Too bad that can be so damn rare. :lol:

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Xanatos
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Re: Rin's Path discussion *spoilers*

Post by Xanatos » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:17 pm

lukesrp wrote:
Xanatos wrote:"...most of the other characters seem like real Human beings as actually seem to feel for Hisao early and throughout their own arcs, I got the impression Rin only really starts caring towards the end of Act 4?" - This game isn't about the girls "feeling" for Hisao. If you're after that, go find a standard dating sim. While that basic element is still present in KS, there are deeper intentions to these paths. She is lost in her own world. More than that, she's drowning in it. Whether she escapes or not is the ultimate result of Hisao's (and thus your) choices.
Thanks Xanatos, that clear up quite a lot, I don't think I really quite explained what I meant by feel. In all of the arc the Girls begin to open up and change to become the people they really are during Act 3. Where as I never thought Rin really seemed to open up or share some of her deeper and/or darker inner demons until right towards the end, and even then I still felt like nothing had happened.

I know that Rin's arc is supposed to be about learning to accept her, but I just never really got into that as I thought she always just seemed like she lacked empathy and never really knew what she was doing.

I'm not expecting the game to be about the girls "feelings" for Hisao, but more how their relationships change and grow from their interactions, and I felt like neither Rin or Hisao really take in steps in growing as people as Rin pretty much stays the same the whole narrative and Hisao just has to learn to accept her.
Rin actually hints at her troubles earlier than the end. Some of it's just rather subtle while other times, her communication issues muddle it up.

Rin does largely stay the same which is the point. Her change comes in the form of realizing that she doesn't have to change. She constantly tries to change because she feels like she has to do it, not because it would help her. Her growth is in realizing that error. Forcibly changing yourself for the sake of others (Rin) or trying to change others to suit you (Hisao) are both awful mistakes.

"In all of the arc the Girls begin to open up and change to become the people they really are during Act 3" - The girls have always been who they really are. There's nothing less legitimate about them just because they have problems in the earlier acts. And that's just the thing: Rin is who she really is from the very start. She spends her route trying to destroy that and become who she isn't because others (Hisao included) push her to it, intentionally or otherwise.

I'd highly suggest replaying the route sometime. Deeper understanding can add a lot to the experience.
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."

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