Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

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crystal
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by crystal » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:05 am

I wasn't even relatively mentally phazed or invested by Emi's route, though same with Rin's/Shizune's I suppose. Still, it was a nice ending. I did it last, and it made it 3/5 getting the good ending first time around. 60% isn't that bad right :mrgreen:
Lilly path > Hanako path >>>> Shizune path > Emi path > Rin path.

My most heart wrenching moment...Misha getting a haircut.

Fronzel
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Fronzel » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:37 pm

A bit late but...

If you talk to Emi's mom rather than follow her out of the dining room, she'll tell you that to Emi, the accident was "no big deal", not something that defines her.

This is untrue, though. Setting aside the legs and the annual spat of nightmares (things she's learned to deal with), the accident made her very reluctant to form deep relationships and drove her to become a running but both because it's a connection to her dad (she says she sometimes thinks that's the only reason she runs) and because the here-and-now mindset running puts her into lets her forget the shadow of death that's always laying across her mind.

The effects of the accident do define Emi to a fairly large degree. Even when she's off the track, she's careful not to get to close to anyone despite her naturally friendly and caring disposition.

If Meiko was only talking about how Emi sees things, she was correct, but that means that the way Emi sees things is wrong.

Thoughts?

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alabaster
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by alabaster » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:06 pm

Fronzel wrote:If Meiko was only talking about how Emi sees things, she was correct, but that means that the way Emi sees things is wrong.

Thoughts?
Absolutely. Meiko is giving you how Emi views the effects of the accident. To her, it wasn't a big deal, but she's in denial about how much it really changed her. She'd like to ignore that there's something dark brooding in her and just put that cheerful facade out there. It's convinced everyone else she's perfectly fine, so maybe eventually she'll even convince herself.

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urishima
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by urishima » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:46 am

Here's something different. A song that is pretty spot on about Emi's reason to run and about Emi in general (imho).

Jamiroquai - Runaway Live
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzyj3Wxh ... re=related

Plus, Jamiroquai/Jay Kay is one heck of an artist.

Lyrics
Can you dig it? There's something in the air tonight
Got a one way ticket, baby don't you wanna ride?
Got to make it, make it to the other side
I've got demons snapping at my heels tonight

I just want to run away, turn me loose
Got people around running me down, I can't stay
I just want to get away, I just want to get away now
Get them off my back today

Can you feel it? I'm stuck inside in a hurricane
Chasing rainbows, can't you see I'm going insane?
I wanna be a free man but I'm spinning on this crazy wheel
I'm jumping for the high bar, can't you dig it?
No longer know what I feel, can't you see?

I just want to run away, turn me loose
Got people around running me down, I can't stay
I just want to get away, I just want to get away now
Get them off my back today

I just wanna run away
Turn me loose, turn me loose
Turn me loose, turn me loose

Got to make it, got to make it
Got to break it, got to make it

I just want to run away, I just want to run away
Got people around running me down I can't stay
Can't stay no more no
I just want to get away, I just got to get away
Get them off my back today

I just want to run away
I just want to get away
Turn me loose, run away run away
Got people around running me down I can't stay
Runnin' away, runnin' away

I just want to run away
Just got to get away
Turn me loose, run away
Get them off my back today
Rin - finished
Emi - finished
Shizune - finished
Lilly - finished
Hanako

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Palas
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Palas » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:32 pm

So I was playing Rin's route and a wild Emi appeared and there was a scene in which she frowns because of reasons and I was like "NOOOOOOOO WAIT EMI I KNOW WHAT'S WRONG LEMME HOLD YOU TIGHT AND LETS BE HAPPY FOREVER AFTER :(((((((("

I think I do belong to the shortie with ponytails after all :Ç
While we are here discussing, Hanako is somewhere hopping from dark to darker tiles. Alone.

DoctorX
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by DoctorX » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:34 pm

First of all, very, very nicely done, good job on the game in general and esp. Emi's route.

Emi's my first (and so far only) route started/finished.

The truth is I was more interested in Lilly in the first act, however I played through the game making decisions as I would have made myself rather than following guides or tutorials, so when I ended up on Emi's path I wasn't really complaining. Thankfully that led me to Emi's good ending, even though I had to go through "tell Misha" part to get it - still think that I made the best decision at the time, because somehow talking to her mom behind her back about this particular issue feels "wrong", unlike talking to the nurse about her infection problem.

Yeah, I'm definitely not the type that try to get 100% out of VN through any method necessary, just don't feel those things are meant to be played that way.

I totally didn't mind the sexually active/playful part of her, I think it fits her personality quite well, and it can also be explained by her mentioning that she had dated before, so she had to have the experience. To say that she's "slutty" due to that would be as far-fetched as saying a guy is a "playboy" for having dated once before and had/enjoys sex. And seriously, you'd be lying if you don't want your girlfriend to be fun in bed.

Somehow the art for the shed scene seems a bit strange compare to the other ones, different artist?

As for negatives, besides the "father is dead being too obvious to not have figured out", is that some of the monologue gets to be a bit too much in terms of pacing. Does every single short sentence in a continues monologue really need to be in it's own text box? Do I really have to press space that much?

But overall, this is great stuff!

Now I'll compose myself and try to see what the other routes are like. Rin, you're next; it's revenge for the "borrow window" incident.

historylover85
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by historylover85 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:28 am

It's ironic how emotionally attached I've become to Emi, considering that I played her story 4th because of my own personal fetish. I like legs, and more specifically legs covered by knee high socks or stockings/pantyhose. So her not having half her legs meant that I wasn't initially interested in her. I started her story solely in the interest of 100% completion, and was totally unprepared for the emotionally roller coaster ride in store for me. I felt that I connected to Emi in a way that I've never have with anyone before, real people or fictional. It's wierd to say, but I think I've fallen in love with Emi, and it's breaking my heart that there will be no more story after this. Probably just as well, so I don't get even more into this virtual world lol. I can't even make myself finish the game now, Rin's story just doesn't seem to catch my interest, and the scenes that include Emi just make it worse.

Lloonnee2
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Lloonnee2 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:34 am

Palas wrote:So I was playing Rin's route and a wild Emi appeared and there was a scene in which she frowns because of reasons and I was like "NOOOOOOOO WAIT EMI I KNOW WHAT'S WRONG LEMME HOLD YOU TIGHT AND LETS BE HAPPY FOREVER AFTER :(((((((("

I think I do belong to the shortie with ponytails after all :Ç
Same feelings on my side >_<
Can't touch other routes after I've played through Emi's =/
My KS tribute video to Emi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO3ETgqrV0c

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The Local Hentai
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by The Local Hentai » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:28 am

Her story felt the most realistic out of all of them. The biggest thing though is how fucking stupid the protag is to figure out that "Hey, your dad died when you last your legs". I mean come on, how old is emi supposed to be 18 (realistically probably 16 since it's fairly japanesey), she lost her legs long before that, which meant that someone HAD to be driving the car she was in. It's not hard to deduce. I know that there's a better way to bring stuff like that up to her, but with proper wording and tact, it's not hard. Her dad being dead and being a part of her emotional problems is already known half way through the story, whereas the actual reveal happens when? Ninety five percent into the route?

And the way she acted when it came to denial was just a disgusting contrast to her regular personality. Personally, I would have left and started dating Miki.

Scarface

Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Scarface » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:37 am

The Local Hentai wrote:how old is emi supposed to be 18 (realistically probably 16 since it's fairly japanesey)
Emi's 19, she missed a school year while relearning to walk and run with her new legs. This is explicitly stated in both her path and Rin's, IIRC. Also, his father could have survived the accident but been in a coma ever since, for example. And Hisao is not surprised when they end up at a graveyard when they go "to visit Emi's father", which means he probably deduced it, but he was just very careful not to touch the topic or make assumptions that might be wrong (however unlikely that was), because the whole point of the route is that Emi needs to be the one taking the first step towards trusting Hisao enough to tell him and open up to him, and she needs to be ready emotionally for that to happen. Pushing it on her, no matter how tactfully it's done, is probably not a good idea.

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The Local Hentai
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by The Local Hentai » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:00 am

Her actual age is not the point. He didn't know until late in the story because it clearly bothered him that she was hiding something not to mention her mother saying the he wasn't with them anymore. The reveal itself was centralized throughout her route, which seems like what they built the story upon that rather than working from the ground up. And if he knew about it there wouldn't be confusion to why her behavior was so off or after the initial doubts about her not wanting to hang out so much. PLUS it would give him enough of an idea to not sulk about her so much.

Scarface

Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Scarface » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:15 am

The Local Hentai wrote:Her actual age is not the point. He didn't know until late in the story because it clearly bothered him that she was hiding something not to mention her mother saying the he wasn't with them anymore. The reveal itself was centralized throughout her route, which seems like what they built the story upon that rather than working from the ground up. And if he knew about it there wouldn't be confusion to why her behavior was so off or after the initial doubts about her not wanting to hang out so much. PLUS it would give him enough of an idea to not sulk about her so much.
You brought up the age thing, not me. I was just stating some facts. ;)

Anyway, none of the above is a clear indicator that the father died. Emi's behaviour is still confusing because the confusing part is not the cause of the behaviour, but rather the behaviour itself: Hisao is confused by the fact that Emi does not rely on him and rejects the support he is willing to offer to help her fight against the source of her suffering. Her behaviour could have still been off if, for example, her dad had lived but remained in a comatose or vegetative state. And Hisao would still sulk about her as much as he does if he knew that the father had died, because the reason why he sulks is that he cares about her and doesn't like seeing her suffering, regardless of what is causing her pain.

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The Local Hentai
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by The Local Hentai » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:15 am

Scarface wrote:Anyway, none of the above is a clear indicator that the father died. Emi's behaviour is still confusing because the confusing part is not the cause of the behaviour, but rather the behaviour itself: Hisao is confused by the fact that Emi does not rely on him and rejects the support he is willing to offer to help her fight against the source of her suffering. Her behaviour could have still been off if, for example, her dad had lived but remained in a comatose or vegetative state. And Hisao would still sulk about her as much as he does if he knew that the father had died, because the reason why he sulks is that he cares about her and doesn't like seeing her suffering, regardless of what is causing her pain.
Brought up the age to make a point that she was too young to get into an accident alone. So it's unnecessary facts ;)

In game he clearly says that he has no idea what he needs to help her for. If he knew what had happened, HE could have talked to her about it, since the reasoning behind her distant attitude was not to lose anybody else, if she started acting like a dumb bitch about it, then why bother? Because in the end what does he do anyway? He confronts her about it in BOTH scenarios. Hell he doesn't even need to talk to her about it, ask the mother, ask the nurse, they'll give you an answer even if they don't. Nitpicking at the issue if the dad was dead or in a coma doesn't change the fact that Hisao didn't know anything about that situation, hence not knowing what to do with himself throughout the route until about the last act. Never said he wouldn't sulk, I just said as MUCH, because obviously he's going to be hurt about how she's suffering inside, but the way he sulks in the story is just so selfish, he was sulking more because he didn't know what happened to their relationship.

Scarface

Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Scarface » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:48 am

The Local Hentai wrote: Brought up the age to make a point that she was too young to get into an accident alone. So it's unnecessary facts ;)

In game he clearly says that he has no idea what he needs to help her for. If he knew what had happened, HE could have talked to her about it, since the reasoning behind her distant attitude was not to lose anybody else, if she started acting like a dumb bitch about it, then why bother? Because in the end what does he do anyway? He confronts her about it in BOTH scenarios. Hell he doesn't even need to talk to her about it, ask the mother, ask the nurse, they'll give you an answer even if they don't. Nitpicking at the issue if the dad was dead or in a coma doesn't change the fact that Hisao didn't know anything about that situation, hence not knowing what to do with himself throughout the route until about the last act. Never said he wouldn't sulk, I just said as MUCH, because obviously he's going to be hurt about how she's suffering inside, but the way he sulks in the story is just so selfish, he was sulking more because he didn't know what happened to their relationship.
We're told the accident was a car accident and it happened when she was little pretty early in the route. Bringing the age up was unnecessary in and of itself because little kids don't normally get into car accidents on their own, so regardless of her current age we already know an adult was involved. I was just pointing out, rather unnecessarily, that your statement about her age was off by at least a year. It shouldn't come as a surprise that if you do something unnecessary others will follow suit. ;)

As for the actually relevant stuff, he clearly says that, yes. But your interpretation of what that means is IMHO quite off. What Hisao means is that he has doubts about whether he has to help with the PTSD, or with Emi's tendency to get through things alone and refuse help, or with how she tries not to let people get too close to her because sh'es afraid. Yes, ultimately all of those are manifestations of the PTSD, but that's not the point. Most of all, Hisao has doubts about how to help without screwing up.

As for reasons to bother if she "acts like a dumb bitch"... What can I say? Love makes you do the most unreasonable things. Actually, she does act like a dumb bitch at least once, and Hisao still bothers.

And as for the rest... I still say he had figured at least part of it, and just hesitated to act based on his assumptions, for fear of screwing up. Why did he confront her in the end either way, then? Because he realized hesitating was getting him nowhere, and he'd rather die (metaphorically, of course) trying than live with the regret of not having done anything when he could. If you think I'm wrong, please provide facts that disprove my interpretation. So far, you haven't been able to do so.

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The Local Hentai
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by The Local Hentai » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:01 am

Scarface wrote:We're told the accident was a car accident and it happened when she was little pretty early in the route. Bringing the age up was unnecessary in and of itself because little kids don't normally get into car accidents on their own, so regardless of her current age we already know an adult was involved. I was just pointing out, rather unnecessarily, that your statement about her age was off by at least a year. It shouldn't come as a surprise that if you do something unnecessary others will follow suit. ;)

As for the actually relevant stuff, he clearly says that, yes. But your interpretation of what that means is IMHO quite off. What Hisao means is that he has doubts about whether he has to help with the PTSD, or with Emi's tendency to get through things alone and refuse help, or with how she tries not to let people get too close to her because sh'es afraid. Yes, ultimately all of those are manifestations of the PTSD, but that's not the point. Most of all, Hisao has doubts about how to help without screwing up.

As for reasons to bother if she "acts like a dumb bitch"... What can I say? Love makes you do the most unreasonable things. Actually, she does act like a dumb bitch at least once, and Hisao still bothers.

And as for the rest... I still say he had figured at least part of it, and just hesitated to act based on his assumptions, for fear of screwing up. Why did he confront her in the end either way, then? Because he realized hesitating was getting him nowhere, and he'd rather die (metaphorically, of course) trying than live with the regret of not having done anything when he could. If you think I'm wrong, please provide facts that disprove my interpretation. So far, you haven't been able to do so.
My god...

I mentioned that to accentuate the fact that if Hisao MISSED the point of her father being dead then he's clearly an idiot (Which was my original point) or it's just bad writing. And little kids DO get into accidents on their own.

When did I ever mention about my interpretation of what he said? I just mentioned it because he DIDN'T know what to do with her AND why she was acting that way. If he knew that her father was dead and that's why she was so depressed about it, he would have kept that in mind when she told him that she needed distance and didn't need his help, circumventing a huge bout of emotional distress. But he didn't, so he had no idea for the reasoning behind her sudden change of attitude. There's just a complete moment of butthurt that he received when he shouldn't have, multiple times throughout the story until almost to the very end. WHICH HAS BEEN MY POINT ALL THIS TIME.

So, how is confronting her with the knowledge of her father being dead worse than confronting her without the knowledge of him being dead? Because you said pushing the point is a bad idea.

And you haven't proven any facts to back up your claims either or prove that Hisao knew that her father died before the very end? I'm sorry but I just don't give a fuck enough about you to provide proof or to disprove you.

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