Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

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Jakari
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Jakari » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:07 am

alabaster wrote:No. It's never stated either way and Hivemind has refused to confirm or deny. We'll never know, and really, who cares? If it was important to the story, it would have been in the story.
Absolutely the correct position to take.

Fronzel
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Fronzel » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:55 am

No actual complaints about this route, but it was a bit "normal". Pretty much what I would expect, but the good execution doesn't leave any room for real dissatisfaction.

Minor points:
Who sent that text message to Emi's mom at the track meet? The nurse?

I find it kind of odd that Hisao's interest in science (which comes about in this route only) was such an important part of the "best" route through the story, which avoids having any big fights with Emi. What's the thematic connection with the rest of the story? There should be one.

Tatsuhiko
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Tatsuhiko » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:40 am

Beat the game for the first time going through Emi's route a couple days ago (got her route in the demo too), and...wow. I really enjoyed this route. The scene where Emi kicks Hisao out of her house and he avoids all contact with her is something I would have personally done too. Maybe that's why I liked it so much is because it was something relatable. I was sad to see it end after Emi showed Hisao her dad's grave and I wanted it to go further...like what happens to them after school...but I guess it does follow in the tradition of a lot of Japanese stories where they just leave you to end their story how you see fit.

Not every day you play a visual novel game that puts such an emphasis on story and not purely on sex every 5 minutes. Wish I could find more like that.

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Souls
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Souls » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:42 am

JellyWeasel wrote: It was pretty obvious what happened the very first time she mentioned her dad, and even more after her mother said something along the lines of "He's no longer with us..." Not to mention that she was in a freaking car accident and he kept asking "What else did she lose?" I almost feel like this isn't worth putting in spoilers because it's so obvious.
Yeah I found that pretty weird how such a huge chunk of the time he was trying to find that out when it was so obvious that it became silly.
Fronzel wrote:Minor points:
Who sent that text message to Emi's mom at the track meet? The nurse?

I was thinking this too, but nothing came of it for solid proof. I thought they would reveal it the first time you go to Emi's house
Last edited by Souls on Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Quitch
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Quitch » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:44 am

Fronzel wrote:I find it kind of odd that Hisao's interest in science (which comes about in this route only) was such an important part of the "best" route through the story, which avoids having any big fights with Emi. What's the thematic connection with the rest of the story? There should be one.
Actually his abilities in science (and his lack thereof in English) are mentioned in at least one other route, so I assume it's in the writers' bible. I think if I recall the dialogue correctly it's because of Mutou wanting to form a club in this route that he realises he has a genuine interest in the subject and that it's a possible future for him.

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Harco
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Harco » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:57 am

His interest in science is also mentioned in Lilly's route. At first he just wants to do something with science and after a few remarks by Lilly about his personality, he decides he wants to become a teacher. He even talks about it with Mutou, although not going as far as forming a science club.

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Exterminator 2000
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Exterminator 2000 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:36 am

Pyro wrote:Really,we should just call this route "Bromance to the Max: Nurse+Mutou route".
THIS. Well, maybe add "feat. The Fastest Thing on No Legs" to it. Gotta give the girl at least some credit. :lol:
"One guy. Two girls. In a dorm room. With a tea set.
Sounds pretty dodgy when I phrase it like that."
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Daverost
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Daverost » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:15 pm

alabaster wrote:No. It's never stated either way and Hivemind has refused to confirm or deny. We'll never know, and really, who cares? If it was important to the story, it would have been in the story.
Okay, so it wasn't just me.
Jakari wrote:Absolutely the correct position to take.
And I certainly agree. It just seems like there's a large group of people making assumptions about Emi's sexual habits when for all we know despite having a boyfriend before, Hisao could have very well been her first. I just wasn't sure if I was missing something or if that large group of people was just misunderstanding or full of it. I just wanted to make sure I was interpreting her character properly based on what we knew and didn't know.

Prospektor

Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Prospektor » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:57 pm

Fronzel wrote:Who sent that text message to Emi's mom at the track meet? The nurse?
I think that was implied with all the information you get later on. I like that we don't get answers to every little question, but in this particular case I just remembered that I have a complaint about it, which is Meiko's reaction ("Honestly, a text message? How old is he, sixteen?"). That seemed as if it came directly from a pick-up guid (don't message, real alpha males phone). In events like a track meet, where it's loud all around and/or loud speaking on the phone might annoy the people around you, it's perfectly fine to send a message. You also don't know what the person who's sending it does at the moment etc. It didn't really seem to fit Meiko, who until then appeared to be a lay back and relaxed person that wouldn't waste another thought on it.
Fronzel wrote:I find it kind of odd that Hisao's interest in science (which comes about in this route only) was such an important part of the "best" route through the story, which avoids having any big fights with Emi. What's the thematic connection with the rest of the story? There should be one.
In Emi's story it was of particular interest because she used to live in the moment, on a day to day basis, not wasting much thought about the future. Her career survey answer "pirate" was funny and lovable, but showed as well that she might run into problems if she doesn't start to sort out where to go. Hisao brings it up with her and becomes a positive influence, but that can only happen if he first sorts it out for himself.

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Harco
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Harco » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:36 pm

Prospektor wrote:
Fronzel wrote:Who sent that text message to Emi's mom at the track meet? The nurse?
I think that was implied with all the information you get later on. I like that we don't get answers to every little question, but in this particular case I just remembered that I have a complaint about it, which is Meiko's reaction ("Honestly, a text message? How old is he, sixteen?"). That seemed as if it came directly from a pick-up guid (don't message, real alpha males phone). In events like a track meet, where it's loud all around and/or loud speaking on the phone might annoy the people around you, it's perfectly fine to send a message. You also don't know what the person who's sending it does at the moment etc. It didn't really seem to fit Meiko, who until then appeared to be a lay back and relaxed person that wouldn't waste another thought on it.
I wouldn't read too much into it. I mean, it is just one remark. Compare it to a sociable person who gets along with everyone; does one moment of annoyance make him a complete jerk? As for Meiko, I think she's just a bit tsundere. Most of the time she's relaxed and laid-back (deredere) but when love comes into the equation, she slides into a more easily annoyed persona (tsuntsun). Just like her daughter.

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Palas
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Palas » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:05 pm

The text message was just the cue for her to leave. Nothing else. How awkward would it be if she was there to congratulate Emi and you were there like "yeah what your mother said you're really good"? Nothing would come from it, the story wouldn't profit. So I suppose it was just a card Hivemind played to help in storytelling.

And it's not like we need to know everything. That's how real life works, anyway.
While we are here discussing, Hanako is somewhere hopping from dark to darker tiles. Alone.

Dylan

Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Dylan » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:19 pm

I got the impression the text was from a boyfriend of hers which led me to believe Emi's dad was either dead or divorced from her mom.

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Palas
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Palas » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:44 pm

Also, the perfect theme for Emi is this (Xavier - Work That Sucker to Death).
While we are here discussing, Hanako is somewhere hopping from dark to darker tiles. Alone.

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Caesius
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Caesius » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:15 am

So after finishing Shizune's route, I have some more thoughts on Emi's route. Not criticisms though; just observations. I'm going to assume everyone reading this thread has already finished Emi's route, but will try not to spoiler Shizune's route... I mean, is it a spoiler to just say that the conflicts and issues in Shizune's route aren't even in the same ballpark? I guess it might be, maybe, so I spoilered it. I've got one of my observations out of the way already, at least, and the obvious conclusion you would get from it is that I liked Emi's route more than Shizune's. And you'd be right. Shizune's route was a lot more "relaxed", which I suppose makes for a nice break given what you go through in Emi's route, but I think an unfortunate side effect is that Shizune's route becomes forgettable in comparison. I also didn't quite "fall in love" with Shizune the way I did with Emi since the primary conflict/resolution crap eventually centers on Misha rather than on Shizune, so you don't really have a moment where you're like "but I love you!" That, frankly, is disappointing. And I just said a lot more about Shizune's route than I intended so I went ahead and spoilered that too. Maybe I should be directing my energy towards making a post in the Shizune thread instead. But enough with that.

Another thing I noticed is how Emi's route really does seem to be the "natural first route" to find yourself in, for a number of reasons.

First, there is the trauma that she went through that resulted in her disability, which Act 1 makes you think she's gotten over only to have the rest of the route make a profound point of how much the accident really affected her. It was a dramatic reversal, to say the least.

Second, there is the letter from Iwanako, which Hisao receives and then discards without fully reading relatively early in the route, only to have him come back to it in an effort to gain perspective. I assume that most routes have him read through the letter in one go -- I was mentally giving him props for discarding the letter, but someone who has read any of the other routes would be shouting, "NO! READ THE REST OF THE LETTER YOU STUPID FUCK!" So the reader will have something on his mind while going through the other routes -- "you should not dwell on the past, but nor should you discard its lessons."

Third and most obvious is the way that many players get "railroaded" into Emi's route in Act 1, which I remember Aura mentioning was a deliberate design. Many players responded negatively to that fact when Act 1 came out because they wanted to get on a different girl's route and felt that they were being punished (or at least, not rewarded) for not making "better" choices in Act 1. Part of the reason many people didn't like Emi at the initial Act 1 release was because of her character design, which appeared far too childish. The railroading only exacerbated the antipathy towards her character, and even after the character redesign many people remained apathetic at best, having already settled on another route to play through first and still thinking that the easiest route to get would thus be the least interesting. Of course, the lackluster "ending" to Act 1 was the primary justification for this line of thought.

I think it's extremely unfortunate that that happened. Even though I liked Shizune more at the end of Act 1, after playing through Emi's route following the character redesign and realizing that she's my second-favorite I decided to just go along with the railroading when the full game comes out. I'm glad I did.
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Fronzel
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Fronzel » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:23 am

Caesius wrote:...many players get "railroaded" into Emi's route in Act 1, which I remember Aura mentioning was a deliberate design.
Where did Aura say that? I'd like to see elaboration on this. What's it for?

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