Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

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Prospektor

Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Prospektor » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:56 pm

I only heard of this game when it was released, so I didn't know anything about the characters beforehand. When I played for the first time, I ended up with Emi, and had no complaints. Now that I played through all routes and endings, Emi is my favorite. In the end it comes down to what personality one wants in a girl, I guess, and Emi's playfulness really suits me (that's why Shizune is my second favorite character).
Regarding the writing, that was really good. It all came together, well, maybe except for the "Yamaku Cat Burglar" storyline, which however was a great comedic relief and really fit the overall tone, and I wouldn't want to miss it - all routes have to add something to the Kenji and Yuuko arc as well, so there's a bit of story behind the stories. I'm really fond of the analogies, Mutou talking about how to observe objects that cannot (or don't want to) be observed directly, and Emi's "warming up" on the cemetery was really touching.
Also I think that Hisao was actually a bit less than an idiot compared to other routes. Sure, he couldn't keep the "daddy-issue" out of his mind, but I think he very well worked it out for himself already, so I wasn't surprised that he wasn't surprised when going to the cemetery. I think it was mainly the desire to KNOW everything that troubled Emi, and especially he desired Emi herself to tell him, since this would be a sign of the trust he was seeking.
So, yeah, great work. And all for free! I really appreciate it, thanks a lot to everybody involved!

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Exterminator 2000
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Exterminator 2000 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:34 pm

Finished Emi's good end yesterday and haven't had a chance of starting the next route (or getting her bad end) yet. To be honest, I also haven't looked into this thread because I was afraid of spoilers. :lol:

Emi's route was definately an interesting one. Although Hanako is still my favorite, it should be noted that I initially got into Emi's route when I played the Act 1 Demo for the very first time. That being said, after having finished Hanako's path first, I wasn't expecting Emi's story to be able to impress me that much, but let me tell you... it did impress me A LOT.
Prospektor wrote:Regarding the writing, that was really good. It all came together, well, maybe except for the "Yamaku Cat Burglar" storyline, which however was a great comedic relief and really fit the overall tone, and I wouldn't want to miss it - all routes have to add something to the Kenji and Yuuko arc as well, so there's a bit of story behind the stories.
Yeah, I second that. The writing was great and well-thought. The Yamaku Cat Burglar sidestory could've used a few more scenes and some kind of closure, but it was entertaining nevertheless.
I'm really fond of the analogies, Mutou talking about how to observe objects that cannot (or don't want to) be observed directly, and Emi's "warming up" on the cemetery was really touching.
Yup, the analogies used were a great thing, and I felt they were always spot-on. :)
Also I think that Hisao was actually a bit less than an idiot compared to other routes.
Oh, I would even say that this is quite the understatement; in fact - even this only being my second route - I think he showed exceptional judgment in some of his decisions. Besides, he was willing to listen to and think about the advice given to him by others (such as Mutou, Nurse and Mrs. Ibarazaki). For example, him leaving Emi's house when confronted by her during dinner was a clever, though not obvious move.

All things considered, I'd say Emi's path had a lot of things to offer for me, as well as some surprises. And the humor was good, too.

Small nitpick: Some of the the art, especially Emi's facial expressions in some of her CGs, seemed subpar to what I've seen in Act 1 and Hanako's route. (Althought to be fair, some things may come down to personal preference, so I wouldn't say it's bad per se.)
"One guy. Two girls. In a dorm room. With a tea set.
Sounds pretty dodgy when I phrase it like that."
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Quitch
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Quitch » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:47 pm

Note that the Kenji stuff tends to be across routes, so you never get the full story on his actions from one path.

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Caesius
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Caesius » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:28 pm

I'll be repeating what pretty much everyone else said here, but anyway.

The one thing about the route that I really did not like was Hisao's stupidity regarding the whole "dead dad" thing. It should have been possible to create the conflict that was central to the climax without giving Hisao F-rank Deduction skills. In fact, it seems like he definitely knows what's up by the time he makes the incredibly stupid remark that gets him kicked out of Emi's house, but nothing in the narration indicates that for sure. It seems like Hivemind intended for him to mentally block out the knowledge of what happened to Emi's dad because 1. he wanted to hear everything directly and unambiguously from her, and 2. he's incredibly bitter that she refuses to open up to him. However, if that was the point, then I think it should have been made more clear -- after all, aren't we supposed to be aware of Hisao's thought processes in a first-person perspective? Just a few lines in the narration to that effect would have made his behavior much more tolerable, since it would be clear that the reasons he thinks and acts the way he does are because of the stress from the relationship and the feelings of rejection that he has rather than some critical malfunction in his logic cortex thingie.

I can tolerate him just being an ass because of his situation and the fact that he's a teenager, but mind-numbing, hate-inducing stupidity doesn't fly. I should be able to identify with and put myself in the shoes of the main character, as though I am Hisao, and the moments of "HURF DURF WHAT HAPPEN TO EMIDAD" jarred me out of "immersion mode" and into "main character hate mode."


Edit: Okay, so I heard that choosing to talk to the mother puts a whole different spin on the end of act 3 and the beginning of act 4, and after seeing it for myself it's now obvious that chasing after her sets you up for the bad end. I'm very pleased to see Hisao thinking and acting more intelligently in this scenario, so I guess the spoilered criticisms I just wrote have been dampened a hell of a lot. Nice.

Aside from that, I have nothing but positive thoughts about Emi's route. It was exactly the sort of unpredictable, non-cookie-cutter story I was expecting (as oxymoronic as that is), but it nevertheless blew me away finally experiencing it firsthand. I'm really looking forward to the other routes now that my highest expectations have been exceeded.

I know it's considered "proper" or whatever to also discuss what the writer did right in addition to what they did wrong, but I'm somewhat lazy. Instead, I will simply express my sincere thanks to The Hivemind for putting such an enormous and invaluable amount of time and effort into writing such an immersive and incredible story. Just... Thank you. That's it.
Last edited by Caesius on Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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alabaster
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by alabaster » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:30 pm

Exterminator 2000 wrote:Emi's route was definately an interesting one. Although Hanako is still my favorite, it should be noted that I initially got into Emi's route when I played the Act 1 Demo for the very first time. That being said, after having finished Hanako's path first, I wasn't expecting Emi's story to be able to impress me that much, but let me tell you... it did impress me A LOT.
Good to see someone really liking Emi's path after coming from another one. Still seems odd that she's the least popular character, at least judging by the number of posts in each girl's thread. Makes me kind of sad.

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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Jakari » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:15 pm

Emi ended up being the first one because I just made choices that where good for Hisao during Act 1 (i.e. you should work the fuck out bro). I thought it was well written, and that everything more or less fit into place without being glaring.

I didn't mind her being explorative/adventurous about sex. Shit, the first relationship I ever had started off pretty much the same way. Lots of sex initiated by both sides. It was new. Like a whole world had been busted open and it was time to explore every nook and cranny of it because we didn't know any better and it was a hell of a lot of fun. Frankly, I think that attitude fits the way Emi acts perfectly. Sex can be just a fun thing you do with a special someone (i.e. a friand).

As far as fowl mouths are concerned, I think Emi is probably the most tomboyish of the girls. She's one of the guys. Of course she curses and talks about sex. Who the hell doesn't at this age, or any age really.

By the third sex scene, it is obvious that the two had been fooling around a lot between the acts. Hell, when she comments that it probably wasn't a good idea to have gone the whole way without condoms the first time it made it clear to me that she or the two of them had gone out to get them soon afterwards. It only makes sense that she would have started keeping condoms in her nightstand like any responsible, sexually active individual should.

As for Hisao's thoughts on Emi's Dad, frankly, I would be purposefully trying to avoid coming to any conclusions about him just like Hisao did. It was obvious what happened from the onset, but even so it would be such a humongous social faux pas to try and act on that information. For all he could have known, Emi's Dad could have been paralyzed by the accident, divorced her Mom and left Emi in the middle to bridge the divide, could have committed suicide from coming out of the crash with survivor's guilt over permanently maiming his daughter. You simply DO NOT let yourself assume anything that could be this emotionally scaring for someone you love until said someone actually tells you what the deal is. Furthermore, Hisao is torn the fuck up by wanting to make things more meaningful and her keeping it all at arms length. Anyone who's ever been in a relationship like that knows you don't keep your head on straight or think with logical deductive reasoning about the reasons why the other person is being evasive. I don't even get the sensation that Hisao was even surprised by the final realization, since he goes into the scene with a line akin to: "I have my suspicions but I don't want to jump to any conclusions."

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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Guest » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:16 pm

alabaster wrote:Good to see someone really liking Emi's path after coming from another one. Still seems odd that she's the least popular character, at least judging by the number of posts in each girl's thread. Makes me kind of sad.
Don't be. I just was in another thread and the same two posters just talked to another for some pages, so it really isn't an indicator for actual quantity of supporters. Also, a thread with thousand replies would have more posts, but it could all be complaints.
Having missed the complete buildup to this game, I now find that many already made their "choice" years ago when the demo was released. They picked a favorite girl and now push through, no matter what. From what I gathered, some people voted for "best path" knowing only ONE at that time. It's all a mess.

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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by alabaster » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:28 pm

Jakari wrote:By the third sex scene, it is obvious that the two had been fooling around a lot between the acts. Hell, when she comments that it probably wasn't a good idea to have gone the whole way without condoms the first time it made it clear to me that she or the two of them had gone out to get them soon afterwards. It only makes sense that she would have started keeping condoms in her nightstand like any responsible, sexually active individual should.

As for Hisao's thoughts on Emi's Dad, frankly, I would be purposefully trying to avoid coming to any conclusions about him just like Hisao did. It was obvious what happened from the onset, but even so it would be such a humongous social faux pas to try and act on that information. For all he could have known, Emi's Dad could have been paralyzed by the accident, divorced her Mom and left Emi in the middle to bridge the divide, could have committed suicide from coming out of the crash with survivor's guilt over permanently maiming his daughter. You simply DO NOT let yourself assume anything that could be this emotionally scaring for someone you love until said someone actually tells you what the deal is. Furthermore, Hisao is torn the fuck up by wanting to make things more meaningful and her keeping it all at arms length. Anyone who's ever been in a relationship like that knows you don't keep your head on straight or think with logical deductive reasoning about the reasons why the other person is being evasive. I don't even get the sensation that Hisao was even surprised by the final realization, since he goes into the scene with a line akin to: "I have my suspicions but I don't want to jump to any conclusions."
Yeah, the two points that are most often brought up as issues with this route, while they originally threw me for a loop, make more sense the more I think about them. It's pretty clear that Hisao put things together at some point regarding Emi's father. I only wish his internal monologue had hinted at that process prior to right before the end. And the sex: seems odd at first, but by the end of her arc I think it makes perfect sense as a natural part of Emi's character.
Guest wrote:Don't be. I just was in another thread and the same two posters just talked to another for some pages, so it really isn't an indicator for actual quantity of supporters. Also, a thread with thousand replies would have more posts, but it could all be complaints.
Having missed the complete buildup to this game, I now find that many already made their "choice" years ago when the demo was released. They picked a favorite girl and now push through, no matter what. From what I gathered, some people voted for "best path" knowing only ONE at that time. It's all a mess.
Good point. I went in mostly blind and sort of judge the results as if everyone had done the same, which they clearly didn't. I'm quite glad I didn't play the demo when I had the opportunity, to be honest.

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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Limbless » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:33 pm

Emi is finally popular, huh?

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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by sporkaganza » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:39 pm

Limbless wrote:Emi is finally popular, huh?
Yes... but will she ever be poplar?
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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Pyro » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:27 pm

Finished Emi's route a few days ago. Was my last one and now the heartwrenching journey is over. I could go on about the excellent plot points and how well the character personalities come together and have sudden twists. But I won't. Instead, I will praise the fact that they explore the personalities and backgrounds of Nurse and Mutou. Going from just act 1 I never would have guessed Nurse's relationship with Emi and the fact he was such a kidder. It's hilarious how he teases Emi and Hisao everytime they come to visit :lol:

Nurse: I'm just seducing Hisao, that's all :D
Nurse: Just remember, I know what medication you're on. No funny business.
Nurse:Give us a few seconds to get our pants on, Emi.

Also Mutou's science club get's honorable mention"You could be a charter member! A founding father!" "Or I can show you how to make explosives in the lab.

Really,we should just call this route "Bromance to the Max: Nurse+Mutou route".

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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Magil » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:20 am

Everyone has said plenty about Emi and how fun she is (my favorite girls are the ones that I perceive to be the most fun to be around, that being Shizune and Emi), so I'd just like to make some quick side comments about how nice it was to get to talk to the Nurse and Muou more in this route. Mutou actually surprised me, who knew he could be such a likeable character? But I definitely enjoyed the whole science club story arc and the fact that Hisao goes down the road towards his future.

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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Aust Kyzor » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:54 am

Now, I'm a girl of love - I love everybody, but only as much as they deserve.
To me, all the girls have their quirks and flaws that make them all unique and lovable in their own way, to the point where I just couldn't hold one above the other.

Sure, Lilly is, and always will be, my favourite, but I'm wasn't going to put her above the other five girls, who were all equally worthy of my affection.

And then I played Emi's route.

Number of things I have decided since then.

1 - The hell with equal love. Lilly is still my favourite, but Emi gets more love and affection from me than previously
2 - I basically cried for all of Act 4
3 - I should have saved this route for last, I'm worried that Lilly's path won't be as powerful or moving to me as Emi's was

So yeah. Needless to say, I loved that route
Manual breathing activated!

Lilly=Emi>>>Hanako=Shizune=Rin=Misha

In terms of STORY, on the other hand - so far:
Lilly's>Emi's>>>>Rin's>>>>>>>>Shizune's>Hanako's

Complete: Hanako, Rin, Shizune, Emi, Lilly
What now? Now I cry over how beautiful the whole thing was.

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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by Daverost » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:12 am

Jakari wrote:By the third sex scene, it is obvious that the two had been fooling around a lot between the acts. Hell, when she comments that it probably wasn't a good idea to have gone the whole way without condoms the first time it made it clear to me that she or the two of them had gone out to get them soon afterwards. It only makes sense that she would have started keeping condoms in her nightstand like any responsible, sexually active individual should.
Seems like you're the first person in this topic to actually mention this plot point while I've seen several others mention the complete opposite. Glad someone remembered.

So we've established that they weren't exactly prepared to have sex the first time and it just kinda happened, but I see a lot of people mentioning she wasn't a virgin. I know she said she had a boyfriend before, but was it ever stated that they had had sex? I don't remember that being anywhere in the dialogue, at least not directly, but it's not like we saw the first time Emi and Hisao had intercourse either, so I'm wondering if I just missed it or if it's something people are inferring into the script rather than from it.

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Re: Discussion - Emi Route (*Spoilers* Warning)

Post by alabaster » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:37 am

Aust Kyzor wrote:1 - The hell with equal love. Lilly is still my favourite, but Emi gets more love and affection from me than previously
Wahaha! Another convert to the Cult of Emi!
Daverost wrote:So we've established that they weren't exactly prepared to have sex the first time and it just kinda happened, but I see a lot of people mentioning she wasn't a virgin. I know she said she had a boyfriend before, but was it ever stated that they had had sex? I don't remember that being anywhere in the dialogue, at least not directly, but it's not like we saw the first time Emi and Hisao had intercourse either, so I'm wondering if I just missed it or if it's something people are inferring into the script rather than from it.
No. It's never stated either way and Hivemind has refused to confirm or deny. We'll never know, and really, who cares? If it was important to the story, it would have been in the story.

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