Shizune's path

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Magil
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Magil » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:47 am

Soooo...

Was Misha blond?

Levy
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Levy » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:01 am

Magil wrote:Soooo...

Was Misha blond?
I think the discoloration in the confession scene was due to the sunset, though I could be wrong. In fact, as I look at the image again, it doesn't even seem like its her, but that wouldn't make sense. She was probably a dark blonde, then dyed it. I mean, naturally pink hair? Of course you could argue that blue isn't a natural color either, but that's just to give black hair more personality in anime style characters, right?
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Saerain
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Saerain » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:26 am

Shizune's path is my favorite. Partly because it breaks tropes that are pet peeves of mine. I was very pleased that it didn't go the way of Hisao trying to ‘fix’ her, which we know often happens with ‘cold’ characters, but rather of Hisao growing to understand and appreciate her. It wasn't that her behavior was an icy, combative front protecting a vulnerable interior, but that the behavior Hisao thought was callous or selfish was not, and that perhaps vulnerability isn't something to romanticize.

It's also a story of inspiration more than sentimentality. Even the more genre-typical (in my opinion) tender scenes with Misha were uplifted by the overarching theme that is first punctuated by the rooftop scene with the pair at the end of Act 1.

I've seen people say that they don't get a feeling of love between Hisao and Shizune, and I can understand that, but I don't agree. I think it's a very accurate portrayal of being in love with someone like Shizune. It's about the progress that comes out of conflict, the growth that is driven by challenges, the competitiveness and the admiration that scaffolds the love between those driven by a passion to get shit done.

There's a recurring theme, poetic to her deafness, of leaving those things you empathetically assume to be shared unspoken. It is reinforced from many angles that communication is for identifying and resolving differences or cooperating to solve a common problem, rather than circle-jerking or yelling at the wind. With that—and other points that Shizune herself makes, especially in her ‘chess isn't a game’ monologue—in mind, I think that the story arch says a lot with surprisingly beautiful ease.

I suppose that the writing assumes certain things about the reader that aren't necessarily true, and maybe it won't work for you if you don't have certain values, traits, or history going in, but I cried decidedly unmanly, happy tears.
Last edited by Saerain on Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Magil
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Magil » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:35 am

Levy wrote:
Magil wrote:Soooo...

Was Misha blond?
I think the discoloration in the confession scene was due to the sunset, though I could be wrong. In fact, as I look at the image again, it doesn't even seem like its her, but that wouldn't make sense. She was probably a dark blonde, then dyed it. I mean, naturally pink hair? Of course you could argue that blue isn't a natural color either, but that's just to give black hair more personality in anime style characters, right?
My first thought when I saw the scene was that the sunset just made it look blond, but then I looked at the scene again in the gallery, and... well, I don't think it's just the sunset making her hair look blond. It really does look blond. I guess she did dye it pink--or, we can go the crazy route and say it was naturally pink but she somehow dyed it blond in that scene.

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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Kazuki » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:36 am

Not to offend anyone that likes her, but I did Shizune's route first because I felt like she'd be the most boring choice, and I wanted to get what I thought might be the worst ones out of the way first, so i could end the game on a high note. Ultimately, I'm glad I did, because Shizune's route just was not interesting. Not that it was of poor quality, mind you. Her dad was probably the worst part of it, because I would have loved to just swipe that sword and cut him in half with it on the spot.
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Some guy » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:43 am

I feel as if I might have appreciated Shizune's route more if I had done it first. I started it immediately after finishing Rin's and Emi's routes, so I think I went in with the wrong mindset. After all of the experiences in those two routes, I expected something similar in Shizune's route, but her route took a completely different pattern than theirs. I guess the best way to describe it is less of a controlled story with deep and emotional conflict (her route did have that, but not to the same extent, I would say), and more just the experience of her, Hisao, and Misha developing, thinking about the future, and being friends.

This is an immediate reaction, so my opinion might change later, but I don't think I went into the route with the right expectations. When I went into Emi's route (my first), I had zero expectations, which I felt was what I needed for Shizune's route. I wouldn't say it's worse than the other stories, which I don't think I could say based off first thoughts, but it's not what I was expecting, given previous information, so my opinion of it is lower than it would have been.

If one will excuse such a slanderous comparison, it's like going into Twilight and expecting it to be primarily an epic conflict between vampires and werewolves. That series is underwhelming for other reasons, but this topic isn't to discuss that.

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Saerain
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Saerain » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:55 am

Some guy wrote:I feel as if I might have appreciated Shizune's route more if I had done it first. I started it immediately after finishing Rin's and Emi's routes, so I think I went in with the wrong mindset. After all of the experiences in those two routes, I expected something similar in Shizune's route, but her route took a completely different pattern than theirs. I guess the best way to describe it is less of a controlled story with deep and emotional conflict (her route did have that, but not to the same extent, I would say), and more just the experience of her, Hisao, and Misha developing, thinking about the future, and being friends.
I think that's accurate. Shizune's path is (quite intentionally, I think) less emotive for good reasons and to great effect. It's the one that argues for pragmatism and ambition with high-minded goals. The most obvious example is what Shizune reveals to want to do with her future, but it underlies quite literally the whole story. Others tackle other problems.

Misha is the most troubled character in Shizune's story (well, maybe after Jigoro), and rather than dwelling on that and fetishizing her turmoil (not that the other paths do, but it's common for the genre to put it on a pedestal, so I feared it here), the focus is on showing her reason. Shizune's way of thinking, which is what hurt Misha in the first place, is what saves her, simply because Hisao is the medium. He interprets for the interpreter. I think it's really sweet, in an understated way, and a good example of what makes the path awesome.
Some guy wrote:If one will excuse such a slanderous comparison, it's like going into Twilight
Shut your whore mouth right now.
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Andere
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Andere » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:13 am

I feel as if I might have appreciated Shizune's route more if I had done it first. I started it immediately after finishing Rin's and Emi's routes, so I think I went in with the wrong mindset. After all of the experiences in those two routes, I expected something similar in Shizune's route, but her route took a completely different pattern than theirs. I guess the best way to describe it is less of a controlled story with deep and emotional conflict (her route did have that, but not to the same extent, I would say), and more just the experience of her, Hisao, and Misha developing, thinking about the future, and being friends.

This is an immediate reaction, so my opinion might change later, but I don't think I went into the route with the right expectations. When I went into Emi's route (my first), I had zero expectations, which I felt was what I needed for Shizune's route. I wouldn't say it's worse than the other stories, which I don't think I could say based off first thoughts, but it's not what I was expecting, given previous information, so my opinion of it is lower than it would have been.

If one will excuse such a slanderous comparison, it's like going into Twilight and expecting it to be primarily an epic conflict between vampires and werewolves. That series is underwhelming for other reasons, but this topic isn't to discuss that.
(Bolding mine)

Exactly this. I did Emi's right before it yesterday, and frankly, I don't think any other route's going to be better-written. I did Rin and Lilly's today, and the break probably tinted my glasses towards the latter two much more than Shizune's did. Lilly's in particular. It had fluffy bits in the middle. Fluffy bits helped after that last route...

I do feel like I need to reread Shizune's later. Maybe there's themes and conflicts strung throughout it that I missed, but... I'm not feeling optimistic about that.

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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Levy » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:17 am

Some guy wrote:I feel as if I might have appreciated Shizune's route more if I had done it first.
As someone who did take Shizune's route first, let me say that I agree. I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much had I not. It also seemed much longer than Emi's and the second act was much longer than Hanako's, which I am in the third act of now. Probably because of all the extra dialogue with Misha. Shizune's path was also very kinetic, with only one real decision that also determined the ending, somehow. I'm still a bit lost as to how that decision effected the ending. Maybe I read it too fast. Either way, the kinetic nature of the path could be a result of Hisao sorta being a follower as Shizune is a sort of "take charge" person.
Last edited by Levy on Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Saerain
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Saerain » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:19 am

Andere wrote:I do feel like I need to reread Shizune's later. Maybe there's themes and conflicts strung throughout it that I missed, but... I'm not feeling optimistic about that.
Unless you breezed through it very fast, I think it's more likely that you just don't like the themes. I had a similar experience with Hanako's and Emi's paths, in their own way.
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Talifan9
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Talifan9 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:47 am

Saerain wrote:Shizune's path is my favorite. Partly because it breaks tropes that are pet peeves of mine. I was very pleased that it didn't go the way of Hisao trying to ‘fix’ her, which we know often happens with ‘cold’ characters, but rather of Hisao growing to understand and appreciate her. It wasn't that her behavior was an icy, combative front protecting a vulnerable interior, but that the behavior Hisao thought was callous or selfish was not, and that perhaps vulnerability isn't something to romanticize.

It's also a story of inspiration more than sentimentality. Even the more genre-typical (in my opinion) tender scenes with Misha were uplifted by the overarching theme that is first punctuated by the rooftop scene with the pair at the end of Act 1.

I've seen people say that they don't get a feeling of love between Hisao and Shizune, and I can understand that, but I don't agree. I think it's a very accurate portrayal of being in love with someone like Shizune. It's about the progress that comes out of conflict, the growth that is driven by challenges, the competitiveness and the admiration that scaffolds the love between those driven by a passion to get shit done.

There's a recurring theme, poetic to her deafness, of leaving those things you empathetically assume to be shared unspoken. It is reinforced from many angles that communication is for identifying and resolving differences or cooperating to solve a common problem, rather than circle-jerking or yelling at the wind. With that—and other points that Shizune herself makes, especially in her ‘chess isn't a game’ monologue—in mind, I think that the story arch says a lot with surprisingly beautiful ease.

I suppose that the writing assumes certain things about the reader that aren't necessarily true, and maybe it won't work for you if you don't have certain values, traits, or history going in, but I cried decidedly unmanly, happy tears.
Agreed with everything you just said. Shizune is her own person and Hisao doesn't go in trying to change that. In his little speech at the end he says that he can understand why (he thinks) she does things, and that it may not be so bad after all. He can see there will be challenges ahead and is willing to face them, as is Shizune. (used spoiler just in case)
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whiteflags
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by whiteflags » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:04 am

I like Shizune, a lot. So I finished her route first. I feel less ripped off than some of you feel in the thread. At least, you might as well have said as much, being presented with bad writing. Shizune reminds me of the Boss from Toradora. Well, she didn't have a name, I don't think, but she was Kitamura's love interest. Except that Shizune was obviously impaired she really had the other facets of that personality. So really even if the route went more like that, with Hisao not being able to spit it out, and Misha becoming possessive would have been cool. Hisao learning to sign his confession and then having a cute event would have been delightfully awkward. Him being a genius at it didn't work for me.

Apart from making the comparison sometime during the story, I didn't allow myself time to think about all of that at all. I came on here right after finishing the route.


Now, my short list of reasons why Jigoro is hilarious:
  • I couldn't tell where Jigoro's hair ended and his beard began. It's me. Completely me, but his beard looked like a misshapen blob for a long time, and made him all the more humorous.
  • It looks like he holds his sword to his side at all times instead of carrying it normally.
  • That he is a businessman, for some reason, when he looks like he should be guarding the prime minister.
  • He has long enough hair for a Meiji-era hairdo and (apparently) never tries one, preferring to keep it down.
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Kazuki » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:20 am

whiteflags wrote:I like Shizune, a lot. So I finished her route first. I feel less ripped off than some of you feel in the thread. At least, you might as well have said as much, being presented with bad writing. Shizune reminds me of the Boss from Toradora. Well, she didn't have a name, I don't think, but she was Kitamura's love interest. Except that Shizune was obviously impaired she really had the other facets of that personality. So really even if the route went more like that, with Hisao not being able to spit it out, and Misha becoming possessive would have been cool. Hisao learning to sign his confession and then having a cute event would have been delightfully awkward. Him being a genius at it didn't work for me.

Apart from making the comparison sometime during the story, I didn't allow myself time to think about all of that at all. I came on here right after finishing the route.


Now, my short list of reasons why Jigoro is hilarious:
  • I couldn't tell where Jigoro's hair ended and his beard began. It's me. Completely me, but his beard looked like a misshapen blob for a long time, and made him all the more humorous.
  • It looks like he holds his sword to his side at all times instead of carrying it normally.
  • That he is a businessman, for some reason, when he looks like he should be guarding the prime minister.
  • He has long enough hair for a Meiji-era hairdo and (apparently) never tries one, preferring to keep it down.
And the fact that he's apparently so intimidating that the school makes no effort in preventing him from bringing his sword onto the premises.
"The only law you need is a gun and a good aim."

Kai

Re: Shizune's path

Post by Kai » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:28 am

I actually wanted to go after Shizune's path but I somehow ended up with Emi. However, I was quite pleased with the outcome. The story was interesting and Emi delivered a unique "Happy ending", or so I thought.

But after reading about Shizune's path...I don't know. I'm having second thoughts now. I'll go for it anyway, though.

Levy
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Levy » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:43 am

Kai wrote:I actually wanted to go after Shizune's path but I somehow ended up with Emi. However, I was quite pleased with the outcome. The story was interesting and Emi delivered a unique "Happy ending", or so I thought.

But after reading about Shizune's path...I don't know. I'm having second thoughts now. I'll go for it anyway, though.
You're not supposed to read about the paths before taking them. Where's the fun in that? :(
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