Shizune's path

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Arcassa
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Arcassa » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:26 am

I have to say, the revelation that KS is finally released and over really combines well with the bittersweet nature of act 3/4 to put me in the perfect emotional state of mind for the route. Kudos KS devs.

Also good god, that bad end is depressing as fuck, and I feel sorry for those Misha fans who jumped at the prospect of a Misha route, only to get an ending where everyone comes out horribly.


Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll be over here waiting for a prequel where we get to see the 2 years Misha and Shizune were together before the game.

A man can dream, can't he? :cry:

blahtoolazytologin

Re: Shizune's path

Post by blahtoolazytologin » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:55 am

The scene Acute Triangle (who thinks of these names?), Hisao explicitly says Shizune made a sound. I know she can giggle even though she's mute, it doesn't really have any connection to your ability to speak, but one would think that would not result in a sound (other than heavier breathing). Just something that jumped out at me...

saudaaji

Re: Shizune's path

Post by saudaaji » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:55 am

I was unfortunately quite disappointed with how this route turned out. The character motivation seemed pretty flimsy to me. In particular, the erotic scenes seemed to come out of nowhere. Some of these you might attribute to Shizune being an impulsive character, but even then, one minute they're behaving in a rather routine fashion and the next thing you know they're getting down and dirty, without even so much as a hint in that direction. Speaking of the erotic scenes, they were, quite frankly, boring and mechanical (with the partial exception of the Misha scene, which was unfortunately rather short). I couldn't understand why there had to be so many Kenji scenes when Kenji was hardly related to the main plot (granted, the scene where he takes off his glasses was hilarious). Especially during the end, the writing failed to uphold the principle of "show, not tell", as Hisao and Shizune go into lengthy and tedious expostulation about the psychologies of the main characters.

Ultimately, the route was way longer than it needed to be. I think part of the problem was that it was too unfocused, given that it simultaneously tried to cover the two rather independent subplots of Shizune's family and Shizune and Misha's relationship. If the story had dropped one and focused on the other, it could not only have been more tightly plotted but allowed for more interesting development. As it is, though, both subplots just seem shallow and not well thought through.

It pains me to have to heap so much critique on this route when it's clear that a lot of work has gone into it, especially considering how appealing Shizune is in Act 1 and how interesting either of the subplots alone could have been. But, I have no intention of going easy on the devs, despite (indeed, because) of their long toiling to give us this free game. All indications are that the devs intended to produce a professional-quality game, and it is thus my obligation to evaluate by that standard. If anyone who liked this route wishes to prove me wrong, please do so.

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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Mirage_GSM » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:41 am

I would very much like to prove you wrong, but frankly I share your opinion.
Oh, anyone reading this thread and not expecting to be spoiled has only him/herself to blame...

I really tried to give Shizune's path a fair chance, despite the fact that I'm not much of a Shizune-fan, but still it turned out to be my least favourite.
What I have to concede is that Shizune's Act 1 ending was the most romantic of all Act 1 endings - too bad this didn't carry over into the subsequent acts.
The romance part of Shizune's path can be summed up as follows:

End of Act II - "Do you want to be my girlfriend?" "Okay." *hug* "Okay, lets not talk about it at all for a few weeks."
Act III - *have sex out of the blue* "Okay, lets not talk about it at all for a few weeks."
Act IV - *have sex again*

I have no idea why Misha even gets jealous^^°

For me, the best thing about Shizune's path was that later on it was almost more about Misha than about Shizune, because she is by far the more interesting character, and I liked Shizune more in Hanako's and Lilly's paths than in her own.

Among all the H-scenes in KS, those including Shizune feel most like they belong in a standard Hentai-VN. They hardly advance the plot, and given that outside the H-scenes there's almost no romantic involvement between Hisao and Shizune they just feel like they were added, because "they had to be in there".

This may sound like I totally hated Shizune's path - that's not the case. It's still better than any path from, any other VN I've read (with the exception of Ever17), but the other KS paths set a very high bar to be compared to.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.

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Limbless
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Limbless » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:24 am

The one thing that I noticed most of all with her route (bearing in mind I haven't done any of the others) is the quantity and variable but undefined length of the timeskips.

I mean, I realise the majority of a year had to be passed within four acts; but there were many, many times where I had no idea 'where' in the year an event was, and felt I was missing out on the incidental interactions of the three mains of the route - incidental interactions which were the basis of the majority of the first act.

Not to mention it seemed implied that Hisao and Shizooooon had no interaction whatsoever in these timeskips... which comes across as Weird as Fuck, considering the fact they're supposed to be a couple. Although they never seemed couply.

Although in defense of the... spontaneous sex scenes, that can totally happen in reality, just like it did in her route.

And last of all, I felt as though my reading comprehension skills were being assaulted. I'm a quick reader by nature, so having to re-read paragraphs up to three times, slower each time, was quite jarring. This would have been... mostly... fine if it were possible to go back a step (which I think should be mandatory for all VNs, like pausing at any instant should be mandatory for all video games), but unless I'm pants-on-head retarded and just haven't noticed it, I don't think there's a way to do that. Although even with such a feature, it was still written in a very complex manner OPINIONS.

But, all that said, I did enjoy it. I did Shizune first because she wasn't my favourite anyway.

Also, it makes > http://shimmie.katawa-shoujo.com/post/view/1887 < abso-fucking-lutely hilarious.

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Worthington
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Worthington » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:29 am

mfw Misha's disability actually WAS that she was a lesbian

I have to agree with others saying that Shizune's route was a little flat. It was a very light-hearted route, which isn't all bad, but there wasn't much real drama in it (unlike Rin's, holy fuckballs). I have to agree that the H-scenes seem very tacked on in Shizoooon's route (I only actually played it because I wanted some fap-material).
Got my feet in the air and my head on the ground.

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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Worthington » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:41 am

Limbless wrote: This would have been... mostly... fine if it were possible to go back a step (which I think should be mandatory for all VNs, like pausing at any instant should be mandatory for all video games), but unless I'm pants-on-head retarded and just haven't noticed it, I don't think there's a way to do that.
Best get those pants out, buddy. scroll up on the mousewheel
Got my feet in the air and my head on the ground.

Kenji=Rin>Akira>Hideaki>Hachisame>Lilly>Takashi>Miki>Emi>Nurse>Misha>Mutou>Shizune>Yuuko>Nomiya>Hanako

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Yuno
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Yuno » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:15 am

As far as the whole Misha thing is concerned, I really should have saved Shizune's ending for last. Knowing Misha would do that to her friend... every time I see Misha on the screen I really get the urge to skip it because I hate her now.

Andere
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Andere » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:21 am

I'm going to rant about writercraft for a bit, if you'll excuse me. I don't think Shizune's route has a conflict. For the most part, I don't think it has conflicts in general. We're in a path-specific thread, so I'm not going to post this in spoilers.

Act 1 has a clear conflict, and it's the same regardless of route: Hisao is adjusting to his environment. At the end of Act 1, this is always resolved. Shizune inarguably has the best Act 1. Act 2 on Shizune's path doesn't have a conflict. Sure, Hisao is learning sign language, but this is a story event, not a conflict. There's no real tension to it, and him learning doesn't greatly change the story. Sure, there's talk about it being hard to talk to her with their hands full, or to get her attention, but Act 2 doesn't address the potential conflicts associated with Shizune's deafness so much as it invalidates them before they ever come up. What, narratively, was the point of her deafness? Let's be frank, her father has a lot of the same problems and none of the excuses, and her brother is about as equally incompetent on social matters. From a storytelling perspective, she could be separated from most people by her abrasive attitude and personality and little would be different. Similarly, why do they date? Narratively, what difference does their dating make? His attraction to Shizune is just another Mildly Troubling Event that's resolved before it can actually affect anything, and then it never affects anything ever again. Misha can feel replaced by Hisao's sign language skills just as easily without their entirely verbal agreement that they are a couple.

Most of Act 3 doesn't have a conflict, it has mildly troublesome story events. They go to her home! Oh no, Lilly and Shizune don't like each other. Shizune's dad is an asshole. There is post-coital awkwardness (which is never addressed, they just avoid each other until it goes away). None of these are presented with much tension. Then, in the second half of Act 3, we finally have a conflict! ...which is resolved by Hisao presenting his Act 1 character development, not by further character growth or development. Sure, Shizune grows a little, but that growth just means she's able to step back and let Hisao do it. And then we're treated to a short infodump about Shizune's perspective and the causes of her attitudes. Then Hisao is briefly troubled by his lack of a future goal! ...which is resolved in an instant of inspiration. And then the story's over! No moral.

You need conflict. Conflict is the food and water and oxygen of a story, and it dies about as quickly as you'd expect if denied it. As a result, the story just feels meandering and pointless, a journey without a real point or destination. And if anyone disagrees, please, feel free to tell me about the conflicts in this path. Break it down for me, because I'm not seeing it, and it's really keeping me from enjoying Shizune's story.

Levy
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Levy » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:16 pm

Shizune's path left me with a lot of questions about her.

1. Is she deaf after an accident or from birth?
2. Is she really mute or does she simply refuse to speak? Her father made several clues that she can speak to him, but refuses to. He even mentioned spending money on tutors to try to get her to speak. Plus, she clearly has a voice as she moaned during their first intercourse. I was kinda hoping the path would continue with Hisao convincing her to at least try to use her voice. Would have made for a more touching ending.
3. Did Shizune eventually figure out Hisao has a heart condition from the scar on his chest? She never really got an answer from him regarding his condition, which might be the reason she never really shared anything about her own disability
4. Where's her mother?
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Yuno
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Yuno » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:20 pm

Levy wrote: 2. Is she really mute or does she simply refuse to speak? Her father made several clues that she can speak to him, but refuses to. He even mentioned spending money on tutors to try to get her to speak. Plus, she clearly has a voice as she moaned during their first intercourse. I was kinda hoping the path would continue with Hisao convincing her to at least try to use her voice. Would have made for a more touching ending.
I don't know about your other questions, but as far as this goes, she isn't mute. She makes noises. I assume she just intentionally doesn't speak for a variety of reasons. If you've ever heard a deaf person speak, it is relatively upsetting. I don't mean to poke fun or to hurt anybody's feelings, but generally a deaf person speaking is very awkward. Unless they've been doing it for a long time, their pronunciation is almost always switches between many levels of volume and tone constantly. Shizune probably knows this, and prefers to keep silent because it'd otherwise be weird if she spoke or made noises. I think this also answers your later question about her being deaf since birth. I would assume she was, because no accident or illness was mentioned, and she doesn't know how to speak. She also demonstrates a misunderstanding of sound. When one of her tests is done, she jabs her pencil into the table and everyone gets startled, IE, she has no concept of volume.
Last edited by Yuno on Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Worthington
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Worthington » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:23 pm

Levy wrote: 4. Where's her mother?
It's all in Jigoro's biography, if you bothered to look. Too bad you're a paint-huffing, fashion blind, good for nothing, hypocritical delinquent that wouldn't understand what i'm talking about even if I took this post and beat you about the head with it.
Kids these days.
Got my feet in the air and my head on the ground.

Kenji=Rin>Akira>Hideaki>Hachisame>Lilly>Takashi>Miki>Emi>Nurse>Misha>Mutou>Shizune>Yuuko>Nomiya>Hanako

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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Mirage_GSM » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:26 pm

Is she really mute or does she simply refuse to speak? Her father made several clues that she can speak to him, but refuses to. He even mentioned spending money on tutors to try to get her to speak.
Jigoro has a tendncy to be a little irrational about... well, most everything^^°
I wouldn't put too much value in anything he says.
Shizune is probably able to voacalize sounds, but has never been able to learn how to speak.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.

Levy
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Levy » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:28 pm

Yuno wrote:
Levy wrote: 2. Is she really mute or does she simply refuse to speak? Her father made several clues that she can speak to him, but refuses to. He even mentioned spending money on tutors to try to get her to speak. Plus, she clearly has a voice as she moaned during their first intercourse. I was kinda hoping the path would continue with Hisao convincing her to at least try to use her voice. Would have made for a more touching ending.
I don't know about your other questions, but as far as this goes, she isn't mute. She makes noises. I assume she just intentionally doesn't speak because she's deaf, and therefore has no idea how to speak for numerous reasons. I think this also answers your later question about her being death since birth. I would assume she was, because no accident or illness was mentioned, and she doesn't know how to speak.
Well even Helen Keller learned to speak, so I thought it would be like a new challenge for Shizune. Seems like the reason is the she simply does not want to learn how to talk, which is a bit disappointing.
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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Mirage_GSM » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:37 pm

Just because something has been successfully done before doesn't mean it has to be easy or even practical.
While it is possible to teach deaf people to speak, most will still be more comfortable with sign language or written notes.
I don't think you should brush that of with a simple "does not want to learn"
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.

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