Shizune's path

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dreamer

Re: Shizune's path

Post by dreamer » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:00 pm

Theeyebrowsofdoom wrote:Shizune's path had I think the most depressive sex scene I've played so far, and you know who I'm talking about. I literally chickened out and said "I can't go through with this" and just loaded the game again to play out the other choice -- but went back out of curiosity anyway. It was sad. She doesn't even look at his face for a while there.
That's why I gained some sympathy for Misha (unspoilered as it's Shizune's thread). The regret just radiates off her throughout the entire scene, and any pleasure she got from it was purely her body's physical reaction. The scene - naked, mechanical, guilt-ridden and loveless - was a complete contrast with Shizune's first H-scene (which was clothed, awkward, but overall fairly heartwarming as far as Shicchan's personality would allow at that point). She wanted comfort, but if anything it had the opposite effect and completely fucked over (hurr) the two closest friendships she had - and boy does she know it.

Dampwaffles Alternate Personality

Re: Shizune's path

Post by Dampwaffles Alternate Personality » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:22 am

My first impression before I played through to the end was "Why isn't there a path for Misha?". I never guessed the reason why. Somebody joked in the forums that "Misha's disability is that she's a lesbian".Funny, but rather unkind. I thought the scene where the teacher scolds Misha "We've talked before about volume control" was endearing, and it also made me wonder if Misha was partially deaf herself. I was never clear about Misha's motives for seducing the protagonist. Sure, she wanted comfort, but was she also hoping he might cure her of being a lesbian? Or was she being mean and trying to steal the hero from Shizune in order to punish Shizune for rejecting her? Misha's page boy haircut is both endearing - it made me go "awwww" - and disturbing if you realized the trope about Japanese girls changing their hair style after an unhappy love affair. It is as if Misha were sending a signal to the world at large and Shizune in particular about how unhappy she was. I was unclear if the distance she put between herself and Shizune towards the end was due to trying to give Shizune some personal space or if she was just off in a corner sulking.

As for poor Shizune, I was astounded to find out that she's so forceful, almost masochistic in her seduction of Hasao. But then, looking at her family situation, it's no wonder the poor girl is so (to put it bluntly) fucked up. A father who think's he the Shogun, a little brother who dresses and acts like a girl, a cousin whom she hates (for some unexplained reason - even after playing both the Lily and Shizune path I think the antipathy between the two is contrived). And then there is the fact that both Lily and Shizune are handicapped. Taking it all together, it looks as if the Shizune family has been swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool for far too long. Can you say "inbreeding" boys and girls? That is one screwed up family. I got the feeling that half the reason Shizune falls for our hero is that her messed up family did not scare him off. I did think that bondage on a first "date" was a bit much, though. After the bondage scene I was thinking "Oh, Lord, I hope this doesn't end up in an threesome" but thankfully the writers did not go there.

I will say that the Shizune path was the only one where the wrong choice to get the bad end was so obvious. I decided to go ahead and seduce Misha just to see what would happen but I knew that there was no way that would lead to the good end. Pity, though, that Misha did not get an ending of her own, after all, they did leech the Hanako Path off the Lily Path and they could have done the same for Misha, too. Misha's affection for Shizune may very well have been the stereotypical Japanese school girl crush on another girl and not full-blown lesbianism. As for Shizune's refusal to speak, that could be explained by her resenting her father for his trying to force her not to be mute by hiring tutors, etc. or it could be explained by Shizune's perfectionism. She knows she can't speak well, so she doesn't bother trying. It's interesting that the writers didn't have Shizune using lip reading which she probably should have been very adept at.

Guest

Re: Shizune's path

Post by Guest » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:59 am

Hideaki's crossdressing and the way his face looks is less of an issue rather than the fact that, just like his dad, he doesn't take ANY initiative to learn sign language or communicate with his sister. The difference between Hideaki and Jigoro is that the former is clueless and socially inept with anyone regardless of their hearing status, and the latter is too arrogant and pig-headed. Hideaki warms more to the idea of sign language when he meets Hisao and realises that, yes, his sister's actually a human being who needs love too, not this mysterious arm-waggling glowering deaf stranger.

Shizune also dislikes Lilly not really because of the communication problems (if you've played Lilly's path, you'll know that she and Shizune used to be quite close) but because she didn't think Lilly had adequate drive for the Student Council, and then Shizune ran away with the entire idea of making her mark on Yamaku and just got all the more obsessive for it. Lilly said some pretty bitchy things as well towards Shizune - passive-aggression can really get under the skin of more direct people like Shizune, and the two just kept winding each other up until it got too bad to just resolve any old time. Both Lilly and Shizune match each other in being stubborn, too, which doesn't help. That's why Shizune felt she had to wait until Lilly was about to leave to make a truce.

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metalangel
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by metalangel » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:22 pm

Guest wrote:
Shizune also dislikes Lilly not really because of the communication problems (if you've played Lilly's pathpassive-aggression can really get under the skin of more direct people like Shizune, and the two just kept winding each other up until it got too bad to just resolve any old time
The scene where you're caught in the middle and have to be the interpreter was very uncomfortable, as I suppose it was meant to be. In that kind of situation, especially for someone inexperienced like Hisao, it must be extremely difficult to be relaying unpleasant, nasty things back and forth.

Guest

Re: Shizune's path

Post by Guest » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:30 pm

Damn, yeah - Misha's a bit too thoughtless to really get what Shizune is saying to Lilly to find much offence in it (especially as Misha embarrasses Hanako, Hisao and Shizune several times in the course of KS and "tactless" is pretty much part of her personality - not maliciously, she's just doing it to be funny or she is genuinely being thoughtless) but Hisao gets every single nuance from both girls. It was a pretty awkward scene to sit through.

I kind of wish Lilly and Shizune had put aside their differences in Shizune's path as well. They were a bit like Gary and Ash in Pokemon, and like with them, it was actually quite nice to see a genuine moment of "hey, you're not so bad after all" after scene after scene of them winding each other up or being pointedly dismissive/cruel. It was one of the more heartwarming moments of KS, and when Lilly returns to Yamaku, maybe they could get their friendship almost back to how it was - or at least to a point where they're civil to each other.

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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Neon Vanguard » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:46 pm

You know, I really wanted to like this path. I really did.

There was so much potential left untapped, too much comic relief, and the ending held little closure.

Chat
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Chat » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:31 am

I liked Shizune and her route a lot more than I was expecting myself. I largely started on her route more for completeness sake than out of any real interest for how her route would unfold. The entire part with her father grated on me hard enough that I was pretty tempted to just drop it there or skip without reading if it continued on for much longer, and I certainly won't bother ever reading his parts again. It really marred the route a bit for me. But other than that, I found the route to be quite good and really got into it. Hell, if it wasn't for Jigoro, it'd probably be a much stronger runner for my favourite route. The bad end was just heart wrenching, far more than any of the others and that alone scores a lot of points. The good ending I enjoyed as well, though Hisao was right about that pose :P

If I were to change anything, it'd be cutting out everything Jigoro, and having the rest of the week after Lilly and Akira leave building a little more on the relationships between Hisao, Shizune, Misha and Hideaki. I don't think that having a character that detestable helped put any other part of the route into perspective or otherwise improved it.

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alien.marksman
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by alien.marksman » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:14 pm

Sorry to be so self indulgent..
But after reading through 17 pages of this thread I can't help but throw my perspective on the situation.

Yes, I can readily admit that the Shizune arc wasn't as well executed as it could have been. I think what A22 has tried to achieve here is 2 minor stories of how Shizune developed her 1-Upmanship, and her relationship with Misha..
Shizune's 'perfectionism' stemming from having a Jerk Dad comparing her to himself and how he'd always done things better.
Certainly explains her competitiveness, and her dislike for being compared to others.
The unrequited love triangle fallout and the efforts by Shicaan and Hichaan to prevent Misha from turning away from them.
Which progresses the development of Hisao's understanding of Shizune, and forcing her to become a little more honest with herself.
It's a sound idea, just perhaps not as polished as it could have been.
Though I do think a little more closure on the Good end is kinda needed to make it feel like it's actually 'Good' and not 'Neutral'

As for the H-Scenes..
themocaw wrote:I thought the two H scenes were perfectly timed. One takes place during vacation, the other after she's finished her Student Council responsibilities. Given her studious and responsible nature, she's going to put her work first. It feels to me as if she was "rewarding herself" for a job well done.
The 1st scene was, IMO, her way of 'declaring victory' over Hisao. Of course she'd seen him depressed and lifeless, making the effort to cheer him up and convince him to not give up on life. The fact she got a boyfriend may have just been an added bonus. I couldn't see someone as controlled and authoritative as her doing something as bold as Bondage in the guest room of the family home without some meaning behind it.
The binding of the wrists was simply her way of declaring "Shut up and follow my lead"
For the 2nd scene in the Student Council Office is Shizune's way of claiming some thing she's striving for.
Remember her answer to Hisao's question on why she joined the student council in the first place as: [It's a Secret]
And It was revealed that she has wanted to be SC President since Middle school. I dunno maybe it's my own warped perception (or fantasy) but that indicates to me that she's harboured a desire to 'celebrate' her presidency in that particular way for some time. Whether or not she would have managed to achieve that goal without Hisao is another matter entirely.

But I guess untill A22 comes on here and explains it in person. We're left with speculations regarding the intentions of the writer. Just as much as some of us can say how we feel it's sub-par.
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Woody Alien
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Woody Alien » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:13 pm

Just finished today Shizune's path with bad and good ending, and wanted to tell my two cents about it.
Forgive me if I say something stupid, as I didn't read every one of the 17 pages before this, I am only at 50% completion of the game and English is not my first language.

Well, there were things I liked and things I didn't. I definitely have to replay it, since I have the feeling that lots of things were implied rather than stated (possibly because I have to translate them before), and I like this, since it fits a lot with Shizune, who of course can't state directly things but has to rely on another person. I liked the theme of miscommunication throughout the route: Hisao having to learn sign language but having to lie to Lilly about the real content of the message, Misha being unable to show her real feelings and hiding behind a facade of cuteness, Jigoro giving a cellphone to her deaf daughter (who feels bad about not answering messages herself) and not caring about answering emails, etc.

I didn't like the fact that many things seemed to simply "be there" and weren't elaborated upon, and also the lack of choices (Only one?). I didn't like Jigoro and Hideaki, I wanted to headbutt both of them at least a couple of times since I found them so annoying. The most important thing perhaps is, I can't relate at all with Shizune since I'm almost the opposite (non-competitive, aimless, mellow), so her constant aggressiveness and will to be the best at everything got on my nerves after a while, even if it is implied that her father forced her to be like this in order to feel loved by him (I think). I grew more attached to Misha, especially since the revelation about her past and unrequited love. I pursued the bad end just to pound the shit out of Misha, although I regretted it later... even if I didn't feel sad for Shizune (who had a slightly DERP-y face in the final image on the stairs, or so it seemed to me) as much as for Misha, who was absolutely crushed by all that she had to endure up to that point.

However, when I reached the good ending I felt as if this path was redeemed, because it gave me a warm feeling despite all the other acts being so restrained and devoid of big emotions (in my point of view). Someone said that it felt incomplete, but I think that this is the point in a "slice of life" VN/anime/manga/what have you: life goes on, and it's up to you deciding what is going to happen. It reminded me of the graduation at the end of Genshiken (a manga I liked very much): the members of Genshiken took different paths, but the club still exists and new people are taking their place, much like the Student council at Yamaku. I thought that was the most emotional moment in the path, more than the H-scenes that felt a bit forced to me. I liked how Hisao finally found his purpose in life thanks both to Misha and Shizune, the final moment with the picture (they never bothered to take one, but felt that they wanted to record that moment forever), and the way Hisao was preparing to say farewell to the school who gave so much to him. I especially liked how he treated Kenji: by putting him on the list of friendly people, he gave him some sort of purpose in life too, treating the poor crazy bastard as a person and not only some random comic relief.

tl,dr: I liked this path less than I should have, but more than I would admit judging by the first 2 acts and Shizune's bossy character.
Now I'm going to do Hanako's path, wish me good luck :)
Last edited by Woody Alien on Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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metalangel
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by metalangel » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:35 pm

Check out the other Shizune thread for more thoughts about her.
alien.marksman wrote:The 1st scene was, IMO, her way of 'declaring victory' over Hisao. Of course she'd seen him depressed and lifeless, making the effort to cheer him up and convince him to not give up on life. The fact she got a boyfriend may have just been an added bonus. I couldn't see someone as controlled and authoritative as her doing something as bold as Bondage in the guest room of the family home without some meaning behind it.
I and some others think that it's because she's not so sure what she's supposed to in a relationship because it's all so new to her. She feels bad that she's neglected him and that he's having to endure her weird family while she tries to ensure Misha doesn't feel neglected either. She sorta knows what couples do, and so with her usual extreme and planned effort, goes for it full on. However, at this stage, she can't yet handle not being in control (she's never experienced anything like this before, and she doesn't want it to go wrong) so she makes the encounter on her terms. Clothes on, her in total control.
For the 2nd scene in the Student Council Office is Shizune's way of claiming some thing she's striving for.
Remember her answer to Hisao's question on why she joined the student council in the first place as: [It's a Secret]
And It was revealed that she has wanted to be SC President since Middle school. I dunno maybe it's my own warped perception (or fantasy) but that indicates to me that she's harboured a desire to 'celebrate' her presidency in that particular way for some time. Whether or not she would have managed to achieve that goal without Hisao is another matter entirely.
Never thought of it like that! I think she's reached the end of her first goal having unwittingly accomplished so much more as a person than she ever imagined she would, and she owes so much of it to Hisao. She's figured out some of this relationship stuff better. The clothes are off this time, she trusts him that much now. Halfway through when they change positions and he's on top, it's hugely symbolic: she's letting someone else control what happens, in the most intimate way.

I like to think that she can't believe the new way of seeing things that she's beginning to understand.

But as I say, I never considered it your way, that she considers the acts symbolic for more selfish, goal-oriented reasons. The 'old' and bossy Shizune that we first meet might, and indeed the first encounter could well be her ticking something off a list (in soccer they talk of the goalkeeper wanting to get the first save out of the way so they can stop worrying about it).

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Titus
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Titus » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:41 pm

Alien.Sniper:
For the 2nd scene in the Student Council Office is Shizune's way of claiming some thing she's striving for.
I understood it as just what she said. Proper motions. Hisao said (technically what the writer wanted to tell you then) that Shizune sees life as a series of events that can be separated and compartmentalized. The H-scene merely being what she said, the proper way to end her student council with a celebration. Was it love? I kinda doubt it.

That put me off, as I see from my point of view that Hisao can't touch her emotionally. After the H-scene it's forward to the next event as the past is done and over (artist throwing away his art). Hell, I think as far as they go they are friends with benefits!

The ONLY thing I see as Shizune changing as a person was that she wanted to reunite with Hisao and Misha after they split up from Yamaku.

Damn, someone cheer me up.
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Bagheera » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:07 pm

Titus wrote:I understood it as just what she said. Proper motions. Hisao said (technically what the writer wanted to tell you then) that Shizune sees life as a series of events that can be separated and compartmentalized. The H-scene merely being what she said, the proper way to end her student council with a celebration. Was it love? I kinda doubt it.

That put me off, as I see from my point of view that Hisao can't touch her emotionally. After the H-scene it's forward to the next event as the past is done and over (artist throwing away his art). Hell, I think as far as they go they are friends with benefits!

The ONLY thing I see as Shizune changing as a person was that she wanted to reunite with Hisao and Misha after they split up from Yamaku.

Damn, someone cheer me up.
While I think that's possible, and certainly entirely plausible in a "normal" hearing individual, I think Shizune's communication issues make it unlikely in her case. It's clear from her treatment of Misha that her friends are very dear to her, and I think her problem with Hisao is that she doesn't know what to do with him. The affection is there, she just doesn't know how to express it (yet another way Rin and Shizune are similar, despite their very different routes and personality types).
Girls: Emi = Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Shizune = Rin
Routes: Rin = Shizune > Emi > Lilly = Hanako


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johnmalkovich
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by johnmalkovich » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:38 pm

I'm a bit hard of hearing myself in life. So I've been having to take sign language classes lately.
When I heard about KS years ago, I shelved it thinking it would have been a porn game despite playing act 1. I downloaded and played KS on the 4th just as everyone else here. I shelved again deciding to replay it again later when I got a book out of the way (I put print before digital).

However, a certain book I read made me come back and replay Shizunes path once again. '

I think A22 must have also read this book because when I hit a certain scene, I had a somewhat different take on Shizunes asshole dad.

I'm willing to bet that Shizunes Dad was taught by the Audiologists in the back-story that Shizune had to become an oralist despite likely being pre-lingually deaf. I suspect that her father tried to follow those orders in his usual brash manner and finally conceded that she didn't want to talk to him. To be brushed off in such a manner reflected a lot about Shizunes Dad that I think the common reader might have missed. They might dismiss him as a bumbling person who is quick to jump to conclusions.

I personally have a little more sympathy for him after re-reading it. Shizune embraced Deaf culture because she knew that she could only be herself. Meanwhile, her father, with a regretfully narrow perspective, made a narrowminded and wrong call, that she simply did not wish to speak to him. What an interesting dynamic that formed. Shizune, who lives through other people and is actually a selfless and outgoing person with the usual reservations due to having to have a translator, and her father who is outgoing yes, wears his heart on his sleeve, but has a fixed view.

So, I gotta say, I get her a little better after reading the book. There is a Deaf culture out there and Shizune embraced it and stayed true to herself throughout the vn. I gotta say, despite the story not having the same engaging plot as Lilly or Emi, I still liked Shizunes path better because of these realizations.

Oh, and by the way, if you are curious about the books title, it is "Deaf Again" by Mark Drolsbaugh. I would be honestly surprised is A22 did not previously read this book before writing Shizunes path.
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by pjhoodsta » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:03 pm

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Ha! Her first line in Katawa Shoujo!

I am currently at the third play through as Shizune.

After I completed Lily, I want to know about Shizune's area.

I am coming for you, you deaf cat-ish bitch!

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Titus
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Titus » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:13 pm

Well, maybe I shouldn't say and I should leave you to figure it out for yourself...but being a know-it-all prick and playing games with you is Shizune's way of flirting with you.

I mean what's the point if it all goes over your head? Many people really couldn't tell so :wink:
What if life had a soundtrack similar to Katawa Shoujo's ?

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