Shizune's path

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Quitch
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Quitch » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:44 pm

Guest wrote:Shizune isn't mute - most deaf people do make noise/grunts while signing, but she makes a conscious decision to not vocalise (and I can't say her dad helped with that)
Which was a failing of the path, it never explores this. Surely this is character gold? You meet this dysfunctional family, you find out her father has paid for the best tutors around to teach her to speak, yet she goes out of her way to avoid making a peep. Yet after learning this the story does nothing with it.

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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Guest » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:22 pm

Quitch wrote:
Guest wrote:Shizune isn't mute - most deaf people do make noise/grunts while signing, but she makes a conscious decision to not vocalise (and I can't say her dad helped with that)
Which was a failing of the path, it never explores this. Surely this is character gold? You meet this dysfunctional family, you find out her father has paid for the best tutors around to teach her to speak, yet she goes out of her way to avoid making a peep. Yet after learning this the story does nothing with it.
Exactly. The story really should have either gone into Shizune's family in more detail - would have been way more interesting than the Misha subplot.

Fronzel
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Fronzel » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:01 pm

Quitch wrote:
Guest wrote:Shizune isn't mute - most deaf people do make noise/grunts while signing, but she makes a conscious decision to not vocalise (and I can't say her dad helped with that)
Which was a failing of the path, it never explores this. Surely this is character gold? You meet this dysfunctional family, you find out her father has paid for the best tutors around to teach her to speak, yet she goes out of her way to avoid making a peep. Yet after learning this the story does nothing with it.
This thread makes me wonder if Shizune's route is an experiment in a traditional "get a girlfriend" VN route where the girl's character is static throughout both as a writing experiment and to stringently avoid the "fix the girl" cliche.

Not a bad idea, but the question is if there's something to take its place.

Lunar Archivist
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Lunar Archivist » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:37 pm

Quitch wrote:Which was a failing of the path, it never explores this. Surely this is character gold? You meet this dysfunctional family, you find out her father has paid for the best tutors around to teach her to speak, yet she goes out of her way to avoid making a peep. Yet after learning this the story does nothing with it.
This reminds me of something that was said in the original "Katawa Shoujo" thread on 4chan that started this ball rolling five years ago: it would've been touching if she'd tried speaking to Hisao after their first sexual encounter as a sign that she's letting her guard down, just a little.

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Quitch
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Quitch » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:41 pm

Guest wrote:
Quitch wrote:
Guest wrote:Shizune isn't mute - most deaf people do make noise/grunts while signing, but she makes a conscious decision to not vocalise (and I can't say her dad helped with that)
Which was a failing of the path, it never explores this. Surely this is character gold? You meet this dysfunctional family, you find out her father has paid for the best tutors around to teach her to speak, yet she goes out of her way to avoid making a peep. Yet after learning this the story does nothing with it.
Exactly. The story really should have either gone into Shizune's family in more detail - would have been way more interesting than the Misha subplot.
Oh no, you need the Misha plot, it's just that it feels like act 3 is the act where nothing of interest happens and you learn nothing.

Ockbald
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Ockbald » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:45 pm

I feel act 3 is the worst of them.

I enjoyed act 2 and feel bad no matter the result in act 4.

Atti

Re: Shizune's path

Post by Atti » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:13 pm

The problem I felt with Shizune's path was that act 1 established an interesting and appealing character, but at the same time obscured by the language barrier present. This made her easily my favourite character, and I wanted to dig deeper. Then you hit act 2 and the story starts spinning its wheels; although it succeeds in establishing the relationship, it really just rounded out Shizune's character without digger deeper. I feel all of act 2 could have been condensed to half, maybe a third of what the material was actually there. This was fine on its own, and just lot a little momentum from the stellar act 1. Then you hit act 3 and it's a huge fake-out; a troubling and dysfunctional family life and borderline abusive father is revealed, but this goes nowhere and is largely forgotten in the second half of act 3, which then begins building up to the real act 4, which resumes the directionless wheel-spinning.

Overall, I'd say the biggest problem that Shizune's path had was bloat. It either should have been pruned down to half its actual length, or else an over-arching plot involving other characters needed to be woven in. It's very clear that Shizune, Misha, and Hisao have only two acts worth of material (tops) worth exploring. As it was, it just dragged on and on, while alluding to a bigger story arc that never happens. The vast majority of the story ends up as filler, despite much of it having great potential.

Shame; of all the characters in the story, I identify with Shizune most closely. I actually intended to attempt the Lilly path first, but changed my mind based on act 1 because I saw a much more interesting character in Shizune. Very rare a single character prompts me to write an entire post, but this is one of them.

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Whammy
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Whammy » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:49 pm

I just finished Shizune's route, good end at least, and I have to sort of agree with the opinions established in this thread. I liked her character and all, but I started getting bored with the story. It just kind of kept dragging it's heels, and you only get what, one choice after Act I? I know it's a visual novel and all that, but I'd like a little more interaction in the story beyond "click". I just turned on auto-mode and even zoned out a few times. I also have to agree with the people who felt the H-scenes were a bit out of place. I had Disable Adult Content on, so it was even more jarring for me. One moment they're alone in a room together, the next Hisao's tied to a chair and there's a picture of melons on the screen. I was like :shock:

Also, for supposedly being girlfriend/boyfriend, I never got that vibe out of these two. If anything, no confession could have happened and the two just stayed friends, and I don't think much would have changed =P. I would have liked that played up a little more; I don't mind fluff, but I want fluff that makes me go "Awww" and not *snore*.

But yeah, my biggest complaint really is there isn't much choice once you get onto the actual route; you're just kind of dragged onto the ride, and it's a long, long ride.

flat what

Re: Shizune's path

Post by flat what » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:36 pm

I've read some people saying that Shizune's path had no real conflict...? To me that's just not true: To me, Misha was one hell of a conflict!

Seriously... I shouldn't have played Shizune's path first. All what I ever thought to know about Misha seemed to be a lie after all. Now, when I see her all cheery and happy in the other paths, I can't help but thinking "She's just playing her happiness". I don't know ... The path really shocked me in some ways, mostly because of Misha's disturbing behaviour that just didn't seemed like her. No more Wahaha~! for me ;_;

ALSO. (Bad Ending - Route Rage ahead)
Just what the hell was up with them, both Misha and Hisao...? I still don't quite get WHY Misha did all these things. At first I thought she might be in love with Hisao herself, then I would at least understand (but still not tolerate) her actions a bit ... but she just wanted to hurt Shizune? Really? What a great friend right there...
And additionally ... Hisao, what an ass. When you follow the bad end, he's just - an ass. Cheating on his girlfriend, that is, doing it with her goddamn best friend, and then acting like it never, ever happened? Not even becoming nervous, not feeling the TINIEST bit of guilt afterwards?!!! "Talking" normal to her like always, being with her like always, not fearing even once that she could get to know about this... Seriously, I would have expected him to be way more guilty about it! I felt so bad for Shizune in the end, that she was so cruely betrayed by people precious to her, and that she didn't even got to know about it. And never would, because apparently it was not a big deal. That was really disturbing ...

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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Mirage_GSM » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:48 pm

I still don't quite get WHY Misha did all these things. At first I thought she might be in love with Hisao herself, then I would at least understand (but still not tolerate) her actions a bit ... but she just wanted to hurt Shizune? Really? What a great friend right there...
At that time Misha was... let's say not quite able to make good decisions. She was distraught, afraid of loosing her only friends and needed someone to talk to. I blame Hisao more for taking advantage of her in a situation like that.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.

flat what

Re: Shizune's path

Post by flat what » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:00 pm

Mirage_GSM wrote: At that time Misha was... let's say not quite able to make good decisions. She was distraught, afraid of loosing her only friends and needed someone to talk to. I blame Hisao more for taking advantage of her in a situation like that.
This I understand completely. I also blame Hisao for actually going through with it in this one decision... Still, Misha did not go for mental comfort, but for physical comfort right away, regardless of which decision the player's making (there's a kiss I think shortly before, and Misha even thanks Hisao for pushing her away - implying that she had more in mind).
But I understand what you mean! I even know such people in real life. I just don't get them though, it makes me kind of sad... :/

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gecko
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by gecko » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:15 pm

flat what wrote: ... Hisao, what an ass. When you follow the bad end, he's just - an ass. Cheating on his girlfriend, that is, doing it with her goddamn best friend, and then acting like it never, ever happened? Not even becoming nervous, not feeling the TINIEST bit of guilt afterwards?!!! "Talking" normal to her like always, being with her like always, not fearing even once that she could get to know about this... Seriously, I would have expected him to be way more guilty about it! I felt so bad for Shizune in the end, that she was so cruely betrayed by people precious to her, and that she didn't even got to know about it. And never would, because apparently it was not a big deal. That was really disturbing ...
I didn't read Hisao as acting as usual in the bad ending. He TRIES, but cannot open up because of guilt, and that's what drives them apart in the end.

Anyway, here's my review of Shizune's path.
Once again, spoiler alert, I won't black things from the Shizune's path, I expect readers there to have already played it.

Honestly, I wasn't attracted much toward Shizune. Her bossy side was only second to Lily's properness in things that make me dislike IRL people. I played her because the obsessed completionist in me wanted to see her ending, or because the reader in me doesn't like to not finish a book. So you could say I didn't have high expectations but I hoped to be surprised.
Was I? Yes in a way. The weaving of the story between the friendships and with Misha was a nice touch. Shizune not being that comfortable with her bossy side and realizing she'd been driving her friends away was touching.
Unfortunately, a series of things didn't sit well with me in the story:
First, Shizune's dad seemed over-the-top for the story realistic tone. Seriously, people that obnoxious exist? And still find consulting work? Okay, maybe I'm naive, but I found it jarring. We already have a comical, over-the-top character with Kenji, I didn't need a second one.
Second, Hisao was very frustrating to me in this path. One girl says she's your girlfriend, then never a kiss, a walk holding hands, in several weeks, and you don't react, just wait? With the same girl who taught you to be upfront and act aggressively? And when finally, a choice point comes to make you react, it's not with her? Come on!
Third, the H-scene with Misha. I felt the introduction bordered unfortunate implications. Seriously, comforting a female friend means you've got to have sex with her? A platonic hug can't be in the plans? Okay, the fact that there was a choice point (and the first and only one!) indicated something serious was going to happen, so on a meta-gaming level, it wasn't that big of a trap. But I would have felt better if the choice was clearer, or delayed to when Misha's all over Hisao (it seems like a no-brainer to me that Hisao would accept to comfort her at first, as a friend, for a certain meaning of comfort). Having to meta-game it tends to jar me out of the story, I don't like that.

Summary for the tl;dr: a path that gave me a greater appreciation for a character I wasn't attracted to in the first place, but that remains my least favourite because of what I perceive as problems with the story itself.
99% completion.
Mind-worm meter: Rin>>Emi>Lily>Hanako>>Shizune
Fanfic: The lamb and the fox

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Whammy
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Whammy » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:47 pm

gecko wrote: Third, the H-scene with Misha. I felt the introduction bordered unfortunate implications. Seriously, comforting a female friend means you've got to have sex with her? A platonic hug can't be in the plans? Okay, the fact that there was a choice point (and the first and only one!) indicated something serious was going to happen, so on a meta-gaming level, it wasn't that big of a trap. But I would have felt better if the choice was clearer, or delayed to when Misha's all over Hisao (it seems like a no-brainer to me that Hisao would accept to comfort her at first, as a friend, for a certain meaning of comfort). Having to meta-game it tends to jar me out of the story, I don't like that.
To be fair, some of her behavior right before the choice was a hint that comforting meant a little more, but yeah, I can see where you're getting at. The once choice in the entire route after Act I, and the vagueness (especially if your a bit like me and kind of got bored by that point so had zoned out just a little) can throw you off.

Kenji_SpecOps
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Kenji_SpecOps » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:22 am

Just finished Shizoooons(people seem to be spelling it like this, and I find it funny) myself, and I can agree that is was the worst out of them all.

Her act 1 was good, two was pretty good as well. The story really started to get boring for me after the vacation in act 3. But I prob only liked the first half because of Akira and Lilly fishing.

Then it picked up a little for me once Misha confessed she was a lesbian for Shizune. That was a shocker for me right there. like WOW. Hit me even harder since Shizune is the last route I did.

But it died down again really fast with the chasing Misha all over the school FOREVER. The ending was decent, though. I like the ending picture.

My main problem is that Shizune and Hisao hardly seemed like a couple. There was like zero romance besides the few H scenes, which the first one was kinda dull.

But I give this route an A for comedy... Oh man, shit was halarious. The best Kenji scenes + Shizune's dad. Comedy gold.

I would of rather had Misha as one of the main girls, though. She seems a lot more interesting.

Atti

Re: Shizune's path

Post by Atti » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:05 am

The best Kenji scenes + Shizune's dad.
Too bad we couldn't have gotten them in the same room at the same time...

I'm somewhat the opposite of you, though. Never really liked Misha's personality but Shizune remained the most interesting to the end.

I do have to disagree on the lack of romance between the couple. It wasn't overt like you'd expect in a typical relationship, but I still felt the emotional bonding was there. They were best friends first, and lovers second.

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