Shizune's path

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Synthus
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Synthus » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:37 am

I'm beginning to suspect that you're supposed to 'win' by spamming more walls of text than your opponents.

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Megumeru
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Megumeru » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:48 pm

Synthus wrote:I'm beginning to suspect that you're supposed to 'win' by spamming more walls of text than your opponents.
No, really. By proving that 'A' is better than 'B' by spamming walls of text, try to make sense out of it, and most importantly shoot down any flying ideas that may hinder/oppose yours. It's much easier in application when it goes with a 3v3, a moderator, and a timer with both sides giving introductory, main, and conclusion points that could sway the opinion of the audience/judge for the final voting.

Of course, since it's a forum (and in the internet nonetheless) spam-to-win is another viable tactic. Less moderated, somewhat messy and primitive, but nonetheless did its job fairly well. Cramming introduction, main, and conclusion points will have to do in these cases.
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They say they hate Shizune? What is this? BLASPHEMY!

SHII-HAEL!
Shizune>Rin>Emi>Hanako>Lilly
"A writer is a light that reveals the world of his story from darkness. Shapes it from nothingness. If the writer stops, the world dies with it." - Alan Wake
Yes, I write stories. Currently working on: The Haunting: A Love Story

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WorldlyWiseman
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by WorldlyWiseman » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:17 pm

Megumeru wrote:
Synthus wrote:I'm beginning to suspect that you're supposed to 'win' by spamming more walls of text than your opponents.
No, really. By proving that 'A' is better than 'B' by spamming walls of text, try to make sense out of it, and most importantly shoot down any flying ideas that may hinder/oppose yours. It's much easier in application when it goes with a 3v3, a moderator, and a timer with both sides giving introductory, main, and conclusion points that could sway the opinion of the audience/judge for the final voting.

Of course, since it's a forum (and in the internet nonetheless) spam-to-win is another viable tactic. Less moderated, somewhat messy and primitive, but nonetheless did its job fairly well. Cramming introduction, main, and conclusion points will have to do in these cases.
So you're operating under the speed debate rule that 'if a statement isn't directly opposed in time, it is taken to be fact' ?

That's so...
.
.
.
.
Shizune.

On topic,
Oddball wrote: I'm not using this as an insult to the character. It just seems to fit well into how she's unable to really understand who people work.
To make the whole thing less harsh, there isn't a whole lot that Shizune can do about Misha being attracted to her besides offering to continue being her friend. Hisao's judgement of the situation (which seems to be the canon interpretation of the whole conflict) is that if Shizune had allowed Misha to drift away after the confession, Misha would have shut herself off entirely and would be both miserable and lonely. The only miscalculation that Shizune made was ignoring the Friend Misha box for too long.
Given she spent her childhood being told to stop being deaf, I doubt it.
I don't think that Shizune would ask something like that (she's not stupid), but she might try to figure out why Misha feels that way, maybe? The only information on what Shizune actually did was turning Misha down at the confession, and then pursuing her as a friend afterward. The confession conversation could have involved Shizune trying to figure out exactly what Misha is telling her (the attraction might not have even occurred to her), followed by Shizune trying to figure out why Misha feels this way, and ending with Shizune simply telling Misha 'I can't do that for you, I am sorry.'

The rest of the path deals with the friendship, and Misha packing her things to go find herself. Her sexuality isn't addressed, really.

(speaking in terms of likelihoods)
The experience might lead to Shizune standing up for someone who is being ostracized for coming out of the closet. Her own utilitarian instincts would prevent her from allowing a member of the work team to be rejected for a reason that doesn't affect their ability to get the job done. Her own memories of Misha would prevent her from just allowing this kind of thing to happen, social tradition be damned. Actually, Shizune seems to be very strongly opposed to the idea of socially cutting people off in general. Her own deafness may or may not contribute to that.

Coolest head-canon ending; Shizune builds up a significant holding corporation that reaches into a number of markets, and then quietly makes open acceptance of LGBT or disabled individuals on-paper company policy. Any public attempt to shame the company for doing so are dodged via a highly-trained PR department. Word-of-mouth spreads the fact that the company is totally cool with whoever you are. Misha, back in Japan and seeking employment, applies and gets an interview, unaware of who the owner is. She steps into the office and is confronted by Shizune at her huge desk.

Shizune tents her fingers and smiles as the light from the window glints off her glasses.

Misha squeals like a schoolgirl.

They embrace as friends.
Hanako's favorite joke is The Aristocrats, but she never tells it because Lilly finds it really offensive. Instead, she practices her delivery in front of a mirror when she's alone. It's the only time she never stammers.

Synthus
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Synthus » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:41 am

Why would the owner of the company be interviewing Misha? High-level executives only really interview people for correspondingly lofty positions, the rest of the proles are left to HR.
Megumeru wrote:
Synthus wrote:I'm beginning to suspect that you're supposed to 'win' by spamming more walls of text than your opponents.
No, really. By proving that 'A' is better than 'B' by spamming walls of text, try to make sense out of it, and most importantly shoot down any flying ideas that may hinder/oppose yours. It's much easier in application when it goes with a 3v3, a moderator, and a timer with both sides giving introductory, main, and conclusion points that could sway the opinion of the audience/judge for the final voting.

Of course, since it's a forum (and in the internet nonetheless) spam-to-win is another viable tactic. Less moderated, somewhat messy and primitive, but nonetheless did its job fairly well. Cramming introduction, main, and conclusion points will have to do in these cases.
I disagree. Volume of text spewed has nothing to do with being right, and the debate format you posted is a terrible way to conduct any discussion. It's a speed prickwaving contest, nothing more.

Also, you need to keep in mind that us Shizunebros are grossly outnumbered by the Hanako and Lilly waifufags. :wink:

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Megumeru
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Megumeru » Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:53 am

Synthus wrote: I disagree. Volume of text spewed has nothing to do with being right, and the debate format you posted is a terrible way to conduct any discussion. It's a speed prickwaving contest, nothing more.

Also, you need to keep in mind that us Shizunebros are grossly outnumbered by the Hanako and Lilly waifufags. :wink:
It's not the effective way to voice an opinion in a forum--true--but nonetheless it allows enough structure to be organized in one discussion which is why I liked it. And a debate isn't a speed prickwaving contest--though waifu-wars considered I admit that it does to that pretty quickly.

We may be outnumbered, but numbers isn't always the issue when we know we can send Lilly waifags crying home. Sometimes I think we're like the marines; 'the proud, the few'--but that's just me in my jack dagnals muddled brain
Image
They say they hate Shizune? What is this? BLASPHEMY!

SHII-HAEL!
Shizune>Rin>Emi>Hanako>Lilly
"A writer is a light that reveals the world of his story from darkness. Shapes it from nothingness. If the writer stops, the world dies with it." - Alan Wake
Yes, I write stories. Currently working on: The Haunting: A Love Story

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nemz
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by nemz » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:40 am

Saying you win an argument by being faster to reply or being able to post more lengthy posts on the subject is the forum equivalent to saying you won an argument by talking louder than everyone else and not allowing them to respond, pundit style. Sadly in the court of public opinion this tactic works, but only because people are, by and large, painfully stupid. None of these tactics actually means you are correct, any more than a vote can make a popular but incorrect statement true.

Yes, this would be a very Shizune way to handle such an argument... that and hand-waving (heh) away any and all valid rebuttals. On a forum she'd probably be the type to nitpick every single line of a response generating rediculous side arguments rather than sticking to the main topic, declaring herself the winner when people simply lose interest in responding to her exponentially growing wall of bullshit. And that's coming from someone who LIKES her. :mrgreen:
Rin > Shizune > Emi > Hanako > Lilly

Guest

Re: Shizune's path

Post by Guest » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:27 am

Synthus wrote:Why would the owner of the company be interviewing Misha? High-level executives only really interview people for correspondingly lofty positions, the rest of the proles are left to HR.
Because of their personal connection. Shizune herself would find out that Misha is being considered for employment in her company and immediately send out an email saying "I got this."
Also, you need to keep in mind that us Shizunebros are grossly outnumbered by the Hanako and Lilly waifufags. :wink:
Surprisingly enough, Hanako and Shizune's arcs tie as my favorites.

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Oddball
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Oddball » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:29 am

Guest wrote: Surprisingly enough, Hanako and Shizune's arcs tie as my favorites.
So, just being curious, what do you think of their two big scenes together, the chess game and Hanako's break down in class?
Last edited by Oddball on Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Synthus
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Synthus » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:04 am

Megumeru wrote:
Synthus wrote: I disagree. Volume of text spewed has nothing to do with being right, and the debate format you posted is a terrible way to conduct any discussion. It's a speed prickwaving contest, nothing more.

Also, you need to keep in mind that us Shizunebros are grossly outnumbered by the Hanako and Lilly waifufags. :wink:
It's not the effective way to voice an opinion in a forum--true--but nonetheless it allows enough structure to be organized in one discussion which is why I liked it. And a debate isn't a speed prickwaving contest--though waifu-wars considered I admit that it does to that pretty quickly.

We may be outnumbered, but numbers isn't always the issue when we know we can send Lilly waifags crying home. Sometimes I think we're like the marines; 'the proud, the few'--but that's just me in my jack dagnals muddled brain
Probably wasn't too clear on this. While a debate isn't a speed prickwaving contest, that format of debate is. nemz has summed up my disdain for that particular style.

Ehhh, I think most of them just put us on their ignore lists. :)
nemz wrote: Yes, this would be a very Shizune way to handle such an argument... that and hand-waving (heh) away any and all valid rebuttals. On a forum she'd probably be the type to nitpick every single line of a response generating rediculous side arguments rather than sticking to the main topic, declaring herself the winner when people simply lose interest in responding to her exponentially growing wall of bullshit. And that's coming from someone who LIKES her. :mrgreen:
Ah, yes, quote wars. We have dismissed that claim. Another method that I can see her using is to focus on that one teeny thing that the other bloke did wrong that supposedly invalidated his entire argument.

Might come as a surprise to WorldlyWiseman and Oddball, but my forum persona here is the least combative among all the ones I frequent. :lol:
Guest wrote:Because of their personal connection. Shizune herself would find out that Misha is being considered for employment in her company and immediately send out an email saying "I got this."
Eh, I can't see Shizune telling HR to keep an eye out for particular people that she knows simply because it smacks of nepotism. There's also the underlying implication that said person isn't good enough to make it through the interview on their own merits, and I don't think she'd want her friends or acquiantances to join the company on those terms.
Guest wrote:Surprisingly enough, Hanako and Shizune's arcs tie as my favorites.
Heretic! 'The friend of my enemy is my enemy!' >:U

Dullfinn
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Dullfinn » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:35 am

Oddball wrote:So, just being curious, what do you think of their two big scenes together example example example
Not to sound like a partypooper, but could you people still stick to using the spoiler-tags, when discussing other routes on threads similar to this? Pretty please? Not all of us have completed the game yet, but would still like to read these forums... :/
Favourite girls: Misha > Emi > Yuuko > Akira > Rin > Shizune > Hanako > Lilly
Favourite boys: Kenji > Nurse > Mutou > Nomiya > Hisao > Hideaki > Jigoro

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Oddball
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Oddball » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:38 am

Dullfinn wrote:
Oddball wrote:So, just being curious, what do you think of their two big scenes together example example example
Not to sound like a partypooper, but could you people still stick to using the spoiler-tags, when discussing other routes on threads similar to this? Pretty please? Not all of us have completed the game yet, but would still like to read these forums... :/
Sorry. I didn't really think of those as spoilers.
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ravenlord
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by ravenlord » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:47 am

Oddball wrote:So, just being curious, what do you think of their two big scenes together, the chess game and Hanako's break down in class?
Hanako and Shizune are my top 1 and 2, so both those scenes hit me hard. For reference, I played Hanako before Shizune.

In the class scene, I actually blamed Misha more than Shizune, tho I was very annoyed at both at that time. Shizune mitigated things somewhat by trying to help in the hallway, so I just kind of wrote it off as Misha being too much Misha, and hoping that she learned her lesson about not always having to be at 11.

The chess scene was pretty brutal, because it came after the Hanako arc. I was more depressed and disappointed than angry, because I realized at that point that Shizunehad a severe lack of empathy. In my mind that's a worse handicap than being deaf or blind. Also before that point my feelings were tied with Shizune and Hanako, and that incident permanently put Shizune to number 2 in my book, and nearly pushed her below Lilly for number 3.

For anyone in a RL relationship with a Shizune type girl, dealing with that kind of lack of empathy is a difficult thing to deal with on a daily basis. Helping someone like Hanako out of her shell is no easy thing either, but at least there is a hope that it can be done, some light at the end of the tunnel.
Hanako>Shizune>Lilly>Emi>Rin {100% complete}
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"痘痕も靨" (If there is love, then smallpox scars are as pretty as dimples) ~ Japanese proverb

Dullfinn
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Dullfinn » Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:05 pm

Oddball wrote:Sorry. I didn't really think of those as spoilers.
I suppose the first one isn't, actually, but the second one seems to be? Because I haven't played Hanako's path yet, and don't remember something like that happening in Act 1... Well, in any case, I suppose I've already been spoiled about pretty much everything (by reading these forums) because people in general have been very lax with their use of the spoiler-tags. I think it's a bit sad. But on the other hand I can understand that I'm a latecomer and all that. Perhaps it boils down to something like which of these two is the primary unwritten rule: no spoilers or no latecommers? (And no need to answer this either, since I'm not taking sides now.)
Favourite girls: Misha > Emi > Yuuko > Akira > Rin > Shizune > Hanako > Lilly
Favourite boys: Kenji > Nurse > Mutou > Nomiya > Hisao > Hideaki > Jigoro

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nemz
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by nemz » Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:53 pm

ravenlord wrote:The chess scene was pretty brutal, because it came after the Hanako arc. I was more depressed and disappointed than angry, because I realized at that point that Shizunehad a severe lack of empathy. In my mind that's a worse handicap than being deaf or blind. Also before that point my feelings were tied with Shizune and Hanako, and that incident permanently put Shizune to number 2 in my book, and nearly pushed her below Lilly for number 3.
Ironic, since all she's doing is treating Hanako like she treats everyone else, pushing her to her limits without any hint of kid gloves... exactly what Hanako says she wants from others. Shizune is actually showing her more respect than Lilly and Hisao usually do, and Hanako shows here that for all her wanting people to stop going easy on her she really can't take it when they do.
Rin > Shizune > Emi > Hanako > Lilly

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Oddball
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Oddball » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:01 pm

nemz wrote:
ravenlord wrote:The chess scene was pretty brutal, because it came after the Hanako arc. I was more depressed and disappointed than angry, because I realized at that point that Shizunehad a severe lack of empathy. In my mind that's a worse handicap than being deaf or blind. Also before that point my feelings were tied with Shizune and Hanako, and that incident permanently put Shizune to number 2 in my book, and nearly pushed her below Lilly for number 3.
Ironic, since all she's doing is treating Hanako like she treats everyone else, pushing her to her limits without any hint of kid gloves... exactly what Hanako says she wants from others. Shizune is actually showing her more respect than Lilly and Hisao usually do, and Hanako shows here that for all her wanting people to stop going easy on her she really can't take it when they do.
I wouldn't say it's ironic. Most other people can't put up with Shizune either.
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