Shizune's path

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WorldlyWiseman
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by WorldlyWiseman » Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:02 pm

We can agree that all points on that spectrum overlap in weird ways and that it's all more complex then media personalities would have us believe. Lenin and Marx had some serious intellectual divides and their brands of communism are actually two very different things, and 'socialist' programs can actually work out pretty well if they are applied democratically and the resources applied to them are consistent. So on and so forth. We don't get any information in-game about their actual politics, so we can only try to figure out how each of them would handle developing their own views.

Shizune being very utilitarian about it fits with her personality; she'll adhere with whatever she feels gives her the most tools to make things better for everyone. Misha gets dedicated to things and gets fired up if she sees a problem, she would go with something that felt like a good idea, especially if she heard a pretty good case being made for it.

We can get this train back on topic if we keep the lens on gender roles and treatment of social minorities, and how it applies to Misha and Shizune's friendship. What I've read implies that Japan just doesn't want to talk about homosexuality at all, so offensive stereotypes in popular media fill the void. How prepared would Shizune actually be for Misha's revelation?
Hanako's favorite joke is The Aristocrats, but she never tells it because Lilly finds it really offensive. Instead, she practices her delivery in front of a mirror when she's alone. It's the only time she never stammers.

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Megumeru
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Megumeru » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:09 am

WorldlyWiseman wrote:We can agree that all points on that spectrum overlap in weird ways and that it's all more complex then media personalities would have us believe. Lenin and Marx had some serious intellectual divides and their brands of communism are actually two very different things, and 'socialist' programs can actually work out pretty well if they are applied democratically and the resources applied to them are consistent. So on and so forth.
Exactly! It's just the fact that everything that is good on paper is never easy to implement and is just as simple to corrupt to fulfill the needs and desires of one man. The media in modern society played a huge role in this as it constantly feed the audience with certain preferences and influence them to either side of the spectrum--most of the time, it is altered to have a lot more bias on one side than the other (e.g. Fox n friends)
We can get this train back on topic if we keep the lens on gender roles and treatment of social minorities, and how it applies to Misha and Shizune's friendship. What I've read implies that Japan just doesn't want to talk about homosexuality at all, so offensive stereotypes in popular media fill the void. How prepared would Shizune actually be for Misha's revelation?
I'd say she's very much unprepared of her revelation when she came to her and confess, but nonetheless she doesn't show any signs of discrimination towards her and still took her as a friend--a close and valuable one--instead of running a discriminatory campaign or something. She may be strict, but at the same time she's fair in her treatment towards others--even those who may be against her ideal.
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They say they hate Shizune? What is this? BLASPHEMY!

SHII-HAEL!
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WorldlyWiseman
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by WorldlyWiseman » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:17 pm

Megumeru wrote: I'd say she's very much unprepared of her revelation when she came to her and confess, but nonetheless she doesn't show any signs of discrimination towards her and still took her as a friend--a close and valuable one--instead of running a discriminatory campaign or something. She may be strict, but at the same time she's fair in her treatment towards others--even those who may be against her ideal.
I'm just curious as to what the calculation looked like in Shizune's head. She obviously values Misha's friendship more than she does Japan's way of dealing with female homosexuality, but she was still raised in that culture. Could Shizune think that this is just a crush that will evaporate as Misha becomes an adult (which might be the Japanese way of handling this)? Could she just be making an exception for her own friend while still having a fixed opinion on homosexuality in general (or at least not seriously questioning how her society treats them)? If she keeps these as separate thoughts, what would it take for her to have to confront both of them, and what would that do?
Hanako's favorite joke is The Aristocrats, but she never tells it because Lilly finds it really offensive. Instead, she practices her delivery in front of a mirror when she's alone. It's the only time she never stammers.

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Oddball
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Oddball » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:51 pm

Shizune strikes me as the type of person that would earnestly say something like,"Have you tried not being gay?"
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Mirrormn
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Mirrormn » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:21 am

Oddball wrote:Shizune strikes me as the type of person that would earnestly say something like,"Have you tried not being gay?"
Funny thing is, the answer to this question is "yes" (in the bad route), and perhaps with some success (depending on your interpretation of story).
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metalangel
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by metalangel » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:31 am

Oddball wrote:Shizune strikes me as the type of person that would earnestly say something like,"Have you tried not being gay?"
Given she spent her childhood being told to stop being deaf, I doubt it.

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acewing905
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by acewing905 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:18 am

Oddball wrote:Shizune strikes me as the type of person that would earnestly say something like,"Have you tried not being gay?"
Shizune doesn't seem to be that kinda narrow-minded person.
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Synthus
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Synthus » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:52 am

I think the Shizunebros and Lillybros need to stop trying to view each others' waifus via warpforged lenses.

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Oddball
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Oddball » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:49 am

acewing905 wrote:
Oddball wrote:Shizune strikes me as the type of person that would earnestly say something like,"Have you tried not being gay?"
Shizune doesn't seem to be that kinda narrow-minded person.
I'm not saying it as narrow minded, just another example of her putting everything in boxes. Gay Misha doesn't fit in the same box as Best Friend Misha or Personal Translator Misha so it's seen as almost a separate entity. Sine it's separate from the other aspects of who Misha is, she doesn't see why it simply can't be ignored.

I'm not using this as an insult to the character. It just seems to fit well into how she's unable to really understand who people work.
Given she spent her childhood being told to stop being deaf, I doubt it.
Double standards? Sure, but not ones she's ever noticed. In her mind, she simply can't stop being deaf. She can't hear no matter what she tries. In Shizune's own relationship with Hisao, they rarely seem to be a couple until it's convenient at the time for them to be a couple. That's when she puts Student Council Hisao away and focuses on Boyfriend Hisao. Since they're separate boxes (not separate people. She's not that bad off mentally, it's just the aspects of their characters don't quite mix in her mind) she doesn't see why Misha can't simply stay Best Friend Misha, Interpreter Misha, or Student Council Misha and just leave Gay Misha tucked away somewhere were it's not bothering anyone.
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Dr. Robotnik
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Dr. Robotnik » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:04 am

Synthus wrote:I think the Shizunebros and Lillybros need to stop trying to view each others' waifus via warpforged lenses.
Let's just agree that Hanako is the best and be done with it.
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Enemy |
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Enemy | » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:15 am

Dr. Robotnik wrote:
Synthus wrote:I think the Shizunebros and Lillybros need to stop trying to view each others' waifus via warpforged lenses.
Let's just agree that Hanako is the best and be done with it.
All of them is the best

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Oddball
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Oddball » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:16 pm

I'm willing to agree that Misaki Kawana is the worst.
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Megumeru
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Megumeru » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:48 pm

Don't make me load another gun and add the tally to '4-0'

I'm busy enough as it is
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They say they hate Shizune? What is this? BLASPHEMY!

SHII-HAEL!
Shizune>Rin>Emi>Hanako>Lilly
"A writer is a light that reveals the world of his story from darkness. Shapes it from nothingness. If the writer stops, the world dies with it." - Alan Wake
Yes, I write stories. Currently working on: The Haunting: A Love Story

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Oddball
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Oddball » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:02 pm

Megumeru wrote:Don't make me load another gun and add the tally to '4-0'

I'm busy enough as it is
Don't worry. We won't. It's not like anybody else understands your scoring system anyway, other than the fact that nobody else seems to get points for anything but you.

:P
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Megumeru
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Re: Shizune's path

Post by Megumeru » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:07 pm

Oddball wrote:
Megumeru wrote:Don't make me load another gun and add the tally to '4-0'

I'm busy enough as it is
Don't worry. We won't. It's not like anybody else understands your scoring system anyway, other than the fact that nobody else seems to get points for anything but you.

:P
I do it just for kicks.

Keeps my mind off life, you know? These little menial 'mental-score' I keep can be pretty amusing...hahahaha
Image
They say they hate Shizune? What is this? BLASPHEMY!

SHII-HAEL!
Shizune>Rin>Emi>Hanako>Lilly
"A writer is a light that reveals the world of his story from darkness. Shapes it from nothingness. If the writer stops, the world dies with it." - Alan Wake
Yes, I write stories. Currently working on: The Haunting: A Love Story

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