The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

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VSOP

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by VSOP » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:10 pm

Okay, this is a really silly question, though I'm baffled. People are saying it's easy to get onto the Hanako branch but I'm having trouble, each time just getting the bad end. Which part is the most important, because I have a feeling I'm missing it.

TenFootPirate

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by TenFootPirate » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:12 pm

Yo-yo wrote:I agree with how loveless the events after their sex scene felt, but that was the whole point. Hanako was afraid of losing Hisao because she (correctly) realized their relationship was more of a "white knight protecting the broken bird" thing than a normal one. She offered her body to him in an attempt to force him to feel differently about her. It was only after hearing what Hanako was willing to do in order to deepen their relationship that Hisao was finally able to realize how he had been treating her, like a broken person instead of a love interest, which disgusted him. That awkward, loveless situation Hisao found himself in after the sex was what made him realize that the event didn't mean what he wanted it to. If everything had felt fine after that night, Hisao might not have realized his mistake, which means that Hanako wouldn't have had the emotional breakdown in front of him at the park, which would then mean that both of them would go on faking their relationship for who knows how long, which would be depressing as hell. Hisao didn't completely realize that he was too focused on protecting her to actually love her. Hearing Hanako confirm how he was treating her, along with the knowledge that she gave up her virginity out of a fear of losing him, was what finally set Hisao on the right path.

At least, that's how I saw it. I haven't played through Rin's path yet, but based on what people are saying, the sex scene(s?) in her path are pretty important to the plot as well. I can say, however, that out of the three paths I've played (Hanako, Lilly, and Shizune), Hanako's scene was immensely important to the plot compared to the others. Especially the fact that she clearly wasn't enjoying herself, which honestly should have clued Hisao in a little earlier about the fact that something was wrong. The only thing that I was disappointed with was the lack of an epilogue. Just a short scene after the credits like Lilly's would have been fine, I was just curious about what Hisao and Hanako's daily lives would be like after the end of their path. I wanted to see Lilly's reaction to the "new" Hanako. I'm fine with how it ended, though. If the only bad thing I can say about the story is that I want more of it, that's more of a compliment than anything, isn't it?
Thank you yoyo for clarifying it for me. It seemed really weird that I felt so little of an impact though. I was moved to tears by lilly's ending but I just feel like jackie chan's "my head if full of fk" pic by hanako's route.

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Yuno
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Yuno » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:16 pm

VSOP wrote:Okay, this is a really silly question, though I'm baffled. People are saying it's easy to get onto the Hanako branch but I'm having trouble, each time just getting the bad end. Which part is the most important, because I have a feeling I'm missing it.
The only two things I could think of that are of a major enough importance is
When Lily calls you about Hanako, agree with her judgment.
and
When you're given the option, go into the city with Hanako

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Deltamon
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Deltamon » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:24 pm

Yuno wrote:
VSOP wrote:Okay, this is a really silly question, though I'm baffled. People are saying it's easy to get onto the Hanako branch but I'm having trouble, each time just getting the bad end. Which part is the most important, because I have a feeling I'm missing it.
The only two things I could think of that are of a major enough importance is
When Lily calls you about Hanako, agree with her judgment.
and
When you're given the option, go into the city with Hanako
Yeah, that later one the part just after Lilly has left almost caught me off guard too (it's the only time during the game where I went back to the save I created, other than just to check out what the other decisions would've done, since something felt off).. But the first one seemed like more obvious choice, since it's true that Hisao wasn't paying much attention to himself and I guessed that it was a story point where Hisao would "find himself" before he could make Hanako happy.
Last edited by Deltamon on Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hanako = Shizune = Rin = Lilly = Emi
I just don't like categorizing people. Even if Hanako will always be the dearest for me, I still prefer if they all get equal share of love.

Guest

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Guest » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:27 pm

rhfs wrote:
CosmicGhost wrote:I seriously don't recommend this route if you're playing it for the first time, after finishing Hanako's route (getting the good ending on the first try), I just can't continue on the other routes, every time I see Hanako I always feel uneasy. Don't get me wrong, the whole route was great, no, not just great, it was perfect. It made me emotional even after 2 hours of finishing it.
Hanako's route was my first and I just started Shizune's. Not that the other girls aren't great too, but Hanako was my favorite from the start and I'm already feeling really awful about ignoring her. Oh well, I guess in my dreams she was still the girl I picked.
It's odd how that is right? I'm working on Hanako now (just got her bad end, which by the way, is fucking awful for anyone with feelings or a heart at all..) and am compelled to get the good end through skip mode now.. I like the other girls well enough, and each playthrough is unique in their own way, which makes it that much better... But my first playthrough (and my most natural "probably what I would do in real life") was Emi, whom I really latched onto, and now each time I see her in game, I feel odd.. As if I should be chatting her up instead.. Maybe their interactions together just felt most like the relationships i've been in.. Familiarity is a bitch right guys? haha.. But so far loving the Hanako route.. I have a feeling that this is the most heartwrenching/warming game i've played in a long long time, if not Ever.

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Hamadyne
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Hamadyne » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:34 pm

Guest wrote:I have a feeling that this is the most heartwrenching/warming game i've played in a long long time, if not Ever.
This is pretty much how I feel about this game. Tissues are on standby.
HERRO

VSOP

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by VSOP » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:36 pm

Yuno wrote:
VSOP wrote:Okay, this is a really silly question, though I'm baffled. People are saying it's easy to get onto the Hanako branch but I'm having trouble, each time just getting the bad end. Which part is the most important, because I have a feeling I'm missing it.
The only two things I could think of that are of a major enough importance is
When Lily calls you about Hanako, agree with her judgment.
and
When you're given the option, go into the city with Hanako
Seems it was because I kept introducing myself to the class, rather than having Mutou do it.

Yubi Shines
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Yubi Shines » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:58 pm

Spoilers for Lilly's path as well as Hanako's.

Like other people, I felt really bad about ignoring Hanako (having seen her story first, it feels like the "canon" one to me, and everything else like alternate universes), so I decided to go with Lilly in my second run to see how Hanako would get on without Hisao... and I really recommend doing the same if you felt the same way. It's heartwrenching, but also ultimately positive.

All the five (six including Misha) girls come off as their own people. They have their own friends, their own lives, their own interests and ambitions. Unlike what you'd expect from a dating-sim or a harem anime, Hisao isn't the center of their universes. If he never transferred, you get the impression they'd find their own happiness anyway. The glaring exception is Hanako, the one who needs "saving."

And then she throws it right in your face that she doesn't want a savior. She doesn't want a knight, she doesn't want to be "handled", she wants to be treated like an equal. (One of my favorite novels has a protagonist with a heart problem like Hisao, who also hates the idea that his friends would think of him as "damaged" or "needing to be looked after.") All the End of Act 1 cinematics need to be seen a second time, because they come off in totally different lights -- in Hanako's, Hisao doesn't appear in the blur of people because *he's* focused on her, it's because they're the same. They're both hurting and in recovery.

Hanako's ending isn't a fairy-tale happily ever after, swept away by prince charming (she initiates the kiss), and she wouldn't want it any other way. Her story is problematic, her sex scene is incredibly difficult and uncomfortable (and since Hisao actually has a shred of goddamn integrity (see: not taking advantage of Hanako when they're both drunk) he's ripped up inside over it), and her ending isn't a definite "and then they fell in love forever times."

Maybe they don't stay together. And that's fine.


In Lilly's path, arguably, Hanako has a better ending. She doesn't just strike out on her own to join the newspaper club or make more friends, she goes travelling! Across Japan! She's going to have her own adventures! And it is abundantly clear that what everyone tells Hisao in her path is true: that she isn't as fragile as she seems, and given enough room she'll figure something out. You get the feeling that she doesn't just distance herself from Hisao and Lilly because of being the "third wheel", but because she realizes she really doesn't want to be treated like a child; Hisao has a fantasy about him and Lilly being father and mother to child!Hanako, and that's the opposite of what she wants.

It's heartwrenching because you can see she doesn't need to be rescued, and it's positive because... she can rescue herself.


Seriously: So goddamn impressed with the writers. This story isn't just respectful to disabled kids, it's respectful to girls and women; not as targets for affection (and boning), not as things to exploit, but just... people.

Can I also add that I'm noticing that a lot of the choices aren't about manipulating the girl to like Hisao, but about Hisao's own character development? You expect a visual novel protagonist to be a blank slate, but he totally is not.

I HAVE SO MANY FEELINGS ABOUT THESE CHARACTERS AHHH.

fanty
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by fanty » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:11 pm

I also have to say that I really liked Hanako's path, but only up to the sex scene. After that it was just... eh... Other people upthread have explained it better than I could.

Rivinhal

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Rivinhal » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:37 pm

Hamadyne wrote:
Guest wrote:I have a feeling that this is the most heartwrenching/warming game i've played in a long long time, if not Ever.
This is pretty much how I feel about this game. Tissues are on standby.
Yeah, screw acting all tough with this.. I'll admit it.. every route so far has made me cry atleast once.. I and my masculinity are comfortable admitting it. This game is one hell of an emotional rollercoaster, that's for sure! I just got Hanako's ending, and like some others have stated, the ero scene was oddly done at best, but the ending after that (park) made it all worthwhile.. Epic ending.. can't wait to start working on Rin's path once I wake up later... :)

Zorbius
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Zorbius » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:52 pm

I like the philosophy behind the bad ending. Wanting to protect someone is not the same as actually loving and caring for them. In the end it's all about you and not about her. Your need to feel like you're worth something because you're helping someone, you only care about them in that your helping them makes you feel good about yourself.

I do think however, the criticism of Lily isn't exactly justified, but it's from Hanako's point of view and she can't know that Lilly feels it's not her place to take a step forward. But I can understand Hanako's frustration. She feels like she's being used by people who claim they're trying to help her, but only help themselves by acting benevolent towards her.

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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Palas » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:06 pm

The writer just got me with the panic attack scene. I found it particularly brilliant because Hisao's reaction was the same as mine. I, too, was all like "THE FUCK IS HAPPENING" and Hisao did go asking everyone about it, which is only natural from my point of view. The player and the character really do blend together at this point, so much so that it got me loading savestates just to see if the outcome would be different if I chose other things to say, avoiding this or that scene hoping that Mishizune wouldn't screw it up somehow.

However, the ending was kind of... less emotional than I'd expect. I just felt Hanako got less like Hanako and more like whatever else, though it did come across as the most overwhelmingly cute thing ever there at the end. The final scene got my eyes tearful not for the drama, but for the kiss in a public space itself, but unlike in Emi's path, I didn't really get to cry.

As for the h-scene, it felt just as awkward to Hisao as it did for me. Really, what was that all about? "Hey good thing I just did the most difficult choice in my life, showing my body to you and all that, now we can have sex with barely any foreplay or emotional attachment. Oh and by the way I'm doing this just so that you won't be a white-knighty fucktard towards me".
While we are here discussing, Hanako is somewhere hopping from dark to darker tiles. Alone.

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Yuno
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Yuno » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:11 pm

VSOP wrote: Seems it was because I kept introducing myself to the class, rather than having Mutou do it.
I've actually always introduced myself to the class, no matter what path I took. I don't think this choice even matters.

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Palas
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Palas » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:14 pm

Yuno wrote:
VSOP wrote: Seems it was because I kept introducing myself to the class, rather than having Mutou do it.
I've actually always introduced myself to the class, no matter what path I took. I don't think this choice even matters.
It does, sort of. If you choose to introduce yourself, it'll add you one point with Shizune. Otherwise, with Hanako.

Yeah, it works just that awkward in Act 1.
While we are here discussing, Hanako is somewhere hopping from dark to darker tiles. Alone.

Bulldozer
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Bulldozer » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:21 pm

I see I'm not the only one who found the H-scene extremely awkward.. The ending made sense though.

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