The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

A forum for general discussion of the game: Open to all punters
Bulldozer
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:53 pm

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Bulldozer » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:15 am

This route surprised me, to say the least

Jim
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:23 am

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Jim » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:28 am

Very emotional to say the least :cry:

Extremist_Line
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: Deep South, USA

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Extremist_Line » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:33 am

*phew* Ok, well after clocking in 6 hours going through this route and somehow managing to avoid a bad ending...I have to say I'm a bit...surprised.

To me, everything leading up to the h-scene was very nice. I loved every bit of it. The CG's were beautiful and everything was just great.

Then the h-scene hit.

I don't even know what to say about it. It just...didn't feel right. Nothing about it did. Having Hisao wake up to findHanako not there also just felt bad. The way they acted afterward just put me off. It was just all so bad. If I was in that situation, I'd hardly be able to live with myself. It felt like there was no love anywhere during that. It wasn't until around the final two CG's that things finally got back on track. The ending was nice although abrupt. No showing of what happened afterward, no reaction from Lilly, no showing of how their relationship effected the other students...

I just don't know about this guys. I'm going to reluctantly say that I liked the route, but the h-scene and the aftermath almost killed it for me. Everything else...I'd have to say it gets a gold star. But what killed me the most is that there is almost no romantic interaction between the two until long after the h-scene. Maybe I'm just expecting too much, and that may be true. But as a major Hanako fan...I can't help but feel a bit heartbroken.

...Well that's my rough and honest assessment. I'm going to be starting on Lilly's route next and see where that goes.
"Anyone can say they're your friend, few can prove it." -Me
Hanako >/= Lilly > Shizune > Emi > Rin
Currently:Finished all but Rin. Taking a break for now.
http://extremistline.deviantart.com/

NeonAmber
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:03 am

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by NeonAmber » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:02 am

The path has left me almost speechless.

The thing I appreciated most about the path, and consequently surprised me the most, was the way they dealt with Hanako's social anxiety and depression. The idea of the knight protecting a girl as is present in other stories (and initially how Hiaso approaches it) never struck me as realistic or sustainable. A person with social anxiety feels they are in some way are different (and generally that they at fault for it), and in dealing with others interactions that aren't normal or casual force a person to look inward (what do I say? Is something wrong with me?) which increases the anxiety and pain and causes them to withdraw. Forcing the focus of attention away from the self is a technique used to help people suffering with it to better cope. In this regard, when the choice to heed Lilly's advice was given the choices was obvious to me - although I wasn't completely confident it would be the same for the writer. I was pleasantly surprised when this was the "correct" one. A good way to get a person with social anxiety out of their shell is to... treat them normally! The less focus there is on the self, the less chance their are for those feelings of anxiety to develop.

Actually, all the little things caused me to love this story - the nervous breakdown Hanako had in class and the subsequent explanation; the fact that she became more comfortable as the conversations became more casual; the idea that she wasn't a delicate flower that was incapable of sustaining herself. All that really left me with a sense of fulfillment in reading it.

As for where it ended and how it ended, it seems fitting. The path forward, if portrayed with the same realism and detail would definitely not be completely happy and fun filled - and perhaps not as fulfilling to the reader? (I don't know, I'm definitely not a writer of fiction). Relapses are quite common in therapy and generally you'll go through a few of them before dealing with it become sustainable. Given the spot she seemed to be at in dealing with it, there will likely be a few more of those.

So, in conclusion, bravo.

User avatar
Deltamon
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:47 am

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Deltamon » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:17 am

First off.. Thank you so much for 4LS for this awesome game.. Words can't describe how much I waited for it over the years.. And how much I enjoyed playing it through with Hanako.

Anyways to start by replying for the OP:

I really couldn't disagree more with your 2 first points.. For example, the ending was nearly perfectly executed and it ended at the best possible time, so that it leaves everything open for the viewers imagination after a clearly happy ending.

As for the sex scene.. I truly loved it, especially the fact that it's not one of those "happy ending style, guess it's time to make out now"-style sex scenes that you see way too often.. But actually the whole scene played huge part in the story line itself, and caused very dramatic turns of events towards the ending.. And I'm glad that they didn't go too far with it, sure.. The depressive part and regret could've lasted longer too, and make the story feel even more dramatic.. But I'm really glad that Hisao did take care of the situation really fast. I'm really amazed how much people disliked it according to these comments.. But I guess people aren't used to more dramatic use of such scenes, which is kind of sad since it really shows how little "sex itself" is used as a story element, and usually they just end up being fillers in the story to show some fan service / act like people are always happy after having sex. Remember guys, their happy relationship just started in the end of the story, I'm 100% positive that they will end up having an amazing and happy sex life eventually. ;)

However, that brings me to another subject.. Why the hell did it take Hisao so long to be able to be true with his feelings towards Hanako, especially since it was very obvious quite early in the story how much he cared for her.. Of course it was nice way to make the story last longer, and point out more efficiently how fragile both of their emotions were and how long it took for them to be able to come in terms with their self and accept the things like they truly are.. But I couldn't help it how I constantly wanted Hisao just to man it up and tell her how he feels. I'm sure they could've avoided tons of misery, doubts and regret that way.. Even if the story would've been remarkably shorter. :P

Also as for the story line itself.. I don't think there's much to say, it was just as well written as I expected it to be. I especially love the relationship between Hanako and Lilly, how amazingly close those two seem to be, yet Hanako never truly is able to be her true self for Lilly. It's a really nice way of telling their story and at the same time include Hisao to their story as well. For other parts it's hard for me to describe it in words, I can't say that I 100% agreed with Hisao whole time, but in the end everything ends up working really well and putting the story together in a really convincing way. So to shorten it up, the story was truly amazing and well worth the time, sometimes it felt slightly dragged on, but overall I really loved it.

However, now after playing the game through.. I have one major issue... I care for Hanako way too much, like I always have.. But even more now after playing the complete game through (I tried to play the Act 1 through with other story routes few times, but always ended up picking Hanako, no matter what).. So I find myself being unable to even think about playing the game through with different story routes and that way I feel like I'm missing out TONS of content, seeing that already the Hanako's story took me almost 9 hours.. :(

Oh and PS. The "neutral" Hanako ending made me really chuckle, loved how their story ended with them just starting to play yet another game of chess. Guess it was sort of a happy ending too, since in that route Hisao seemed to become really close friend for her..
Hanako = Shizune = Rin = Lilly = Emi
I just don't like categorizing people. Even if Hanako will always be the dearest for me, I still prefer if they all get equal share of love.

rhfs
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:19 am

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by rhfs » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:37 am

I had to make an account here to leave a bit of feedback on this. I've only played Hanako's route so far.

I've been absolutely blown away by the awesome work of 4LS. I wasn't really sure what to expect playing an independent production like this, to be honest, but you guys have really exceeded my expectations thus far. Although I may have decided that Hanako was my favorite before I started, her route was extremely well written and made me like her even more than I would have expected. Her character development was really excellent, and I especially loved both the birthday party and the jazz club scene for doing things that I felt were particularly interesting. Even the H-scene succeeded as being both sexy and very tasteful considering her circumstances.

I just loved all the little quirks and small details that helped bring her as a character to life. I'm not sure what else to say that other posters have not, other than the fact that you guys have succeeded wildly in making me have romantic feelings towards a fictional disabled girl.
The whole experience was just really unique and fantastic overall, and while I'm not sure if I'll enjoy learning about the other girls as much as I did with Hanako, I'm really looking forward to it regardless.

Thank you so much to the amazing people of 4LS for making this project a reality!

Yo-yo
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:35 pm

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Yo-yo » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:45 am

I agree with how loveless the events after their sex scene felt, but that was the whole point. Hanako was afraid of losing Hisao because she (correctly) realized their relationship was more of a "white knight protecting the broken bird" thing than a normal one. She offered her body to him in an attempt to force him to feel differently about her. It was only after hearing what Hanako was willing to do in order to deepen their relationship that Hisao was finally able to realize how he had been treating her, like a broken person instead of a love interest, which disgusted him. That awkward, loveless situation Hisao found himself in after the sex was what made him realize that the event didn't mean what he wanted it to. If everything had felt fine after that night, Hisao might not have realized his mistake, which means that Hanako wouldn't have had the emotional breakdown in front of him at the park, which would then mean that both of them would go on faking their relationship for who knows how long, which would be depressing as hell. Hisao didn't completely realize that he was too focused on protecting her to actually love her. Hearing Hanako confirm how he was treating her, along with the knowledge that she gave up her virginity out of a fear of losing him, was what finally set Hisao on the right path.

At least, that's how I saw it. I haven't played through Rin's path yet, but based on what people are saying, the sex scene(s?) in her path are pretty important to the plot as well. I can say, however, that out of the three paths I've played (Hanako, Lilly, and Shizune), Hanako's scene was immensely important to the plot compared to the others. Especially the fact that she clearly wasn't enjoying herself, which honestly should have clued Hisao in a little earlier about the fact that something was wrong. The only thing that I was disappointed with was the lack of an epilogue. Just a short scene after the credits like Lilly's would have been fine, I was just curious about what Hisao and Hanako's daily lives would be like after the end of their path. I wanted to see Lilly's reaction to the "new" Hanako. I'm fine with how it ended, though. If the only bad thing I can say about the story is that I want more of it, that's more of a compliment than anything, isn't it?

NeonAmber
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:03 am

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by NeonAmber » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:51 am

Extremist_Line wrote:*phew* Ok, well after clocking in 6 hours going through this route and somehow managing to avoid a bad ending...I have to say I'm a bit...surprised.

To me, everything leading up to the h-scene was very nice. I loved every bit of it. The CG's were beautiful and everything was just great.

Then the h-scene hit.

I don't even know what to say about it. It just...didn't feel right. Nothing about it did. Having Hisao wake up to findHanako not there also just felt bad. The way they acted afterward just put me off. It was just all so bad. If I was in that situation, I'd hardly be able to live with myself. It felt like there was no love anywhere during that. It wasn't until around the final two CG's that things finally got back on track. The ending was nice although abrupt. No showing of what happened afterward, no reaction from Lilly, no showing of how their relationship effected the other students...

I just don't know about this guys. I'm going to reluctantly say that I liked the route, but the h-scene and the aftermath almost killed it for me. Everything else...I'd have to say it gets a gold star. But what killed me the most is that there is almost no romantic interaction between the two until long after the h-scene. Maybe I'm just expecting too much, and that may be true. But as a major Hanako fan...I can't help but feel a bit heartbroken.

...Well that's my rough and honest assessment. I'm going to be starting on Lilly's route next and see where that goes.
So, your biggest complaint is that it wasn't happy enough for you? I ask that in a truly honest way.

The way in which the sex scene began was a bit surprising to me; though not in the way it proceeded and the aftermath. They had sex in the absence of clearly defined relationship, feeling uncertain how to act afterward seemed appropriate. They were close, but hadn't opened up to each other and clearly didn't understand each other. Given that, it would be difficult to know how to proceed - as shown by Hiaso's inability to deal with the letter from Iwanako, he was somewhat inept when dealing with his own feelings and conveying them to others when it came to love. If they did suddenly grow close due to the act, it might have felt forced.

Priest
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:24 am
Location: Denmark Ftw!

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Priest » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:16 am

Somedamnguy wrote:Ah, just finished with the good ending. Man tears all around.

First off, thanks to the 4LS team, this was the only and may be the only VN I ever looked forward to releasing, nonetheless my first one played.

Originally I got the bad end for Hanako, that was a real heartbreaker, getting the good ending now just makes it even worse for me. I need some tissues.


I have thoroughly enjoyed KS! Now for Emi's path.
Thank god i was starting to think that i was the only one shedding man tears
In case of war hide in the trash can. it allways makes it unscratched somehow

Engraven
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:05 am

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Engraven » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:23 am

I'm trying my best not to bawl right now.

I got Hanako's route first. I was extremely happy that it was filled with conflict that was resolved in such a great manner. I didn't watch the H-scene, and I hear some criticism on it. Anyone care to share?

Great freaking VN, and I'll be sure as hell trying for the other routes once I get Hanako off my mind...

Yo-yo
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:35 pm

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Yo-yo » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:56 am

Engraven wrote: I didn't watch the H-scene, and I hear some criticism on it. Anyone care to share?.
Basically, while Hanako consented to the sex, it was pretty clear that she didn't enjoy it. It made sense once she explains her motivations in the finale, but that didn't make the h-scene itself or the way they treated each other the next day any more pleasant. The descriptions weren't graphic or disgusting, it's just a little off-putting when compared to the other sex scenes (that I've read, anyway) where it was clear that both parties were enjoying themselves.

User avatar
Tahtorak
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 5:19 pm

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Tahtorak » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:57 am

I don't know how to get the scene between "Misstep" and "Continuing Melody" in Act 4 of Hanako's path. Can someone help me?
.., ,
-M

KaraShepard

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by KaraShepard » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:17 am

Literally JUST finished Hanako's route. I'm typing this through tears right now.

When Act 1 was released back in 2009, I played it and fell in love with Hanako immediately. She essentially WAS ME when I was in high school (minus the scarring and losing her parents): bullied through childhood, almost no friends, painfully shy, acute social anxiety, worried about being a burden to others, all of it. Even though I've grown up as a person since then, I still carry the psychological baggage of my incredibly difficult and painful 'formative years.' Going into Hanako's full path, I had hoped I would get to see both the depth of her insecurities, and her being able to overcome them and grow as a person. Even though I'm more or less over most of problems we share(d), watching her was like watching myself, and it was at times a rough ride, but in the end incredibly cathartic.

Having not played any of the other girls' paths yet, I can't remark on whether this was the 'best' route, but it was astoundingly well-crafted. The writing, art, music, and especially the cutscene (which was a wonderful surprise) were all amazing and well-done. I love that her path writer understood that for a person like Hanako (like me), growing out of their shell can only happen when they want to change; they can't be forced out by others, no matter how good the intentions of others might be. I've been going through a rough patch in my life right now, and seeing her desire to change for the better has helped inspired me and reinforced my desire not give up on my own struggle to better myself. I was literally sobbing during the scene in the park, where she lets down her barrier and voices her own insecurities. "I'm a useless person!" This has been my own thought so often this year, and Hisao's reassurance that she isn't has helped reinforce my own knowledge that neither am I.

On a less personal note, I liked how her writer managed to avoid some of the more cliched tropes (like Hanako getting drunk possibly offering Hisao an opportunity to take advantage of her), how realisticly done the h-scene was (even though it was a bit painful emotionally to sit through; the lack of any true emotional connection between them, while I know it was intentional, still hurt), and how some of the scenes were completely unexpected in the best of ways (like their trip to the jazz club/Hanako playing billiards).

The only minor disappointment that I had was that we didn't get to see them interacting romantically more, especially after they finally were able to open up to each other. Particularly, another more loving h-scene between the two of them where there is real intimacy and passion and desire between them would have been wonderful. Sex is good, but sex between two people who love each other is wonderful.

Also, while at first I questioned the angle of the final CG in the good route (the kiss) at first (the viewer not being able to see her scarring initially seemed to have some bad implications--that you got to see her 'whole' as your reward for completing the path/as the final image that would stick in the mind), when I realized that it meant the random passersby (who were gawking quite obviously at Hisao and Hanako's PDA) WERE seeing her scars, one of Hanako's biggest anxieties, and that she did not mind left a powerful and positive impact.

I want to personally thank every one of the devs who worked on Hanako's path. Playing it has given me a new source of light and hope in a time when I really needed it. Thank you, all of you.

BongoBob
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:14 am

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by BongoBob » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:20 am

Man, where to start?

I knew from the first time I started up Act 1 almost 2 years ago, that I was going to go for the Hanako path first. So when I got home from work last night around midnight to find KS was released, I immediately downloaded it while cooking some dinner and immediately started down the Hanako path. It may be because it was a long time since I played Act 1 and simply don't recall it, but Hisao Lily and Hanako heading to the Teahouse at the end of Act 1 to watch the fireworks was a great change. The animation before Act 2 was just perfect. I continued playing, slowly getting tired, until about three and a half hours in, I hit the scene in the Classroom. Jesus tapdancing Christ, that scene was so intense, I realized afterwards that I had barely been breathing and I was literally on the edge of my chair. After that, there was no sleeping. I had to see this to it's resolution. The H-Scene was uncomfortable, in a good way, if that makes any sense. I managed to get the good ending on my first try, and I thought it was damn near perfect, the fact that she kisses him in public like that, so showing of how their relationship had really evolved that day.

I'm a completionist whore, but I just don't think I have it in me to witness a bad end ;_;

User avatar
Bardock9000
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:59 am

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Bardock9000 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:07 am

Is there supposed to be a cinematic after the credits?
Because when I finished Lilly's route, I sat through the credits and there was an extra scene.

When I finished Hanako's open kiss near the bakeryI watched the credits and didn't get a extra scene.
"This is me. All of me..."

Post Reply