The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

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dragonfi
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by dragonfi » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:35 am

scoopnokes wrote:you should do the others routes or at least in my opinion lilly's since it involves some Hanako's develop to. As well it really doesn't matter how fast we finish it as long as, like you said, savor the experience of the story.
Oh, don't worry, I just said "I'm afraid", but of course I'm curious too, and it would be a waste not to check them out.

Actually, I just got trough the bad endings and... wow, scary Hanako is scary. (Of course, I just had to play trough the good ending after them of course.)

About how long does it took for others to read, I just asked it out of curiosity. It takes however long you would like, that's one of the strength of books and VNs compared to films or other more real-time mediums.

GossCannon wrote:Different strokes for different folks. Some things just resonate strongly with different people. I think in Hanako's case, and maybe for some of the other girls, what we see in her is a reflection (in some part) of our selves, and the struggles we have gone through trying to cope with other people.
Yes. (And this process might have something to do with how empathy works too.)

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Exterminator 2000
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Exterminator 2000 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:10 am

dragonfi wrote:First of all, I would have liked to see more happy Hanako time. I understand why an open ending appeals to a wider audience, and it was really a good place to end the story. Still, some little epilogue would have been nice. Maybe just snippets from their future, Lily's reaction, some more warm and fuzzy moments, etc.
I can understand that, especially after having started another route (Emi) and seeing how (End of Act 2)Hisao and Emi become a couple by the end of Act 2.

The main reason, I think, for Hanako's and Hisao's story to end at this point, is that the path leading to their relationship is the most important part, and probably the hardest one as well. Jugding from the way they just sort of 'click' with each other, overcoming their fears and realizing their own truths was a bigger obstacle for them than working together as a couple, I think. After the episode in the park and the ending scene, I'm pretty damn sure they'll be able to handle most things thrown at them from that point on.
I'm still trembling a bit when I think about the scene in the classroom, for instance. That scene, Hanako's fear really got trough to me. In my opinion it was portrayed so well.
Absolute agreement here. It's gripping, and probably the point that exposes the true depth of her trauma the best (including when she shows her body to Hisao).
Now, my only problem is that I'm afraid of seeing the other paths and the bad endings, in fear that they might be subpar compared to this (seeing the high standards this route just raised), or be just as heart-wrenching. (I also don't want to see Hanako unhappy, which is quite likely to show up in the bad endings.)
I felt the same way, but I'm glad I managed to overcome this and start Emi's route. To be completely honest, I was kind of afraid I wouldn't like her route (during Act 1), but I have only just finished Act 2 and I'm positively hooked. The writing is so... perfect that it gets yourinto the right mood and mindset for a given character's route no matter what. It's amazing, really.
(By the way, I'm just curious, my total time was around ~10:30. I wonder how fast did others finish, since I like to take my time, and savor the experience.)
Mhh, according to the game clock I think it was somewhere around 6 hours in the end, but that can't be right. I definately know that I spent at the very least 8 hours on my first playthrough, probably even a little over 10 hours (since I *really* took it slow.)
tl;dr: Thank you 4ls, this game is really a piece of jevel that performed well beyond expectations. And I'm saying this, while only finished Hanako's path yet. It is really inspiring to consider that this game is the fruit of your hard work, passion and determinaton, that you put into it entirely in your free time.
Nothing more to say. :)
"One guy. Two girls. In a dorm room. With a tea set.
Sounds pretty dodgy when I phrase it like that."
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"The point of no return was 1000 miles ago."
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"What's the name of that feeling in your heart, that the world is going to be alright?"

Misfile17
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Misfile17 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:13 am

Exterminator 2000 wrote:
dragonfi wrote:First of all, I would have liked to see more happy Hanako time. I understand why an open ending appeals to a wider audience, and it was really a good place to end the story. Still, some little epilogue would have been nice. Maybe just snippets from their future, Lily's reaction, some more warm and fuzzy moments, etc.
I can understand that, especially after having started another route (Emi) and seeing how (End of Act 2)Hisao and Emi become a couple by the end of Act 2.

The main reason, I think, for Hanako's and Hisao's story to end at this point, is that the path leading to their relationship is the most important part, and probably the hardest one as well. Jugding from the way they just sort of 'click' with each other, overcoming their fears and realizing their own truths was a bigger obstacle for them than working together as a couple, I think. After the episode in the park and the ending scene, I'm pretty damn sure they'll be able to handle most things thrown at them from that point on.
I'm still trembling a bit when I think about the scene in the classroom, for instance. That scene, Hanako's fear really got trough to me. In my opinion it was portrayed so well.
Absolute agreement here. It's gripping, and probably the point that exposes the true depth of her trauma the best (including when she shows her body to Hisao).
Now, my only problem is that I'm afraid of seeing the other paths and the bad endings, in fear that they might be subpar compared to this (seeing the high standards this route just raised), or be just as heart-wrenching. (I also don't want to see Hanako unhappy, which is quite likely to show up in the bad endings.)
I felt the same way, but I'm glad I managed to overcome this and start Emi's route. To be completely honest, I was kind of afraid I wouldn't like her route (during Act 1), but I have only just finished Act 2 and I'm positively hooked. The writing is so... perfect that it gets yourinto the right mood and mindset for a given character's route no matter what. It's amazing, really.
(By the way, I'm just curious, my total time was around ~10:30. I wonder how fast did others finish, since I like to take my time, and savor the experience.)
Mhh, according to the game clock I think it was somewhere around 6 hours in the end, but that can't be right. I definately know that I spent at the very least 8 hours on my first playthrough, probably even a little over 10 hours (since I *really* took it slow.)
tl;dr: Thank you 4ls, this game is really a piece of jevel that performed well beyond expectations. And I'm saying this, while only finished Hanako's path yet. It is really inspiring to consider that this game is the fruit of your hard work, passion and determinaton, that you put into it entirely in your free time.
Nothing more to say. :)
Agreed, it's such a wonderful experience, it's more than that even, I'm not really sure how to describe how much Katawa Shoujo has affected me, It's all been positive of course it's just hard to put into words because they've made sucha well rounded and just beautiful thing

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sirdakz03
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by sirdakz03 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:37 am

scoopnokes wrote:
dragonfi wrote:I-I... have ... mixed feelings. *sob* But from the good kind.

(WARNING: If I understand it correctly, I don't need to use SPOILER tags for the good ending of Hanako's route. If I'm wrong, please skip the post, and point it out to me, so I can revise it.)

First of all, I would have liked to see more happy Hanako time. I understand why an open ending appeals to a wider audience, and it was really a good place to end the story. Still, some little epilogue would have been nice. Maybe just snippets from their future, Lily's reaction, some more warm and fuzzy moments, etc.

Apart from this little thing, I really enjoyed the story. It was emotionally powerful, in more than one way.

I'm still trembling a bit when I think about the scene in the classroom, for instance. That scene, Hanako's fear really got trough to me. In my opinion it was portrayed so well.

Also, It was nice to see the developers constantly departing from cliches, stereotypes and overused tropes (Hello tropers, out there). Adults were useful (Moutou in the aformentioned scene, among others), nobody held the idiot ball (Hisao had more than one opportunity, but I'm glad it didn't even came up as a Bad Ending option), Hanako did not had Perfetly Happy Sex (TM), etc.

The story also felt real, there was no point where I felt it forced, just for the sake of an outcome.

I think that the advice "Start moving, and you will get there." was really sincere, considering that the game was developed by people solely in their free time, and performed well above and beyond any expectations.

I was also a bit proud that I got the good ending on first try. The last question was hard, if It were any other game, I'm sure I would have choose the wrong answer (that being right), but I choose to trust Lily (and the devs, since they also showed good judgement so far), since she knew Hanako for a much longer time than Hisao, and also, thinking over it, that was the only real way for her to improve.

Now, my only problem is that I'm afraid of seeing the other paths and the bad endings, in fear that they might be subpar compared to this (seeing the high standards this route just raised), or be just as heart-wrenching. (I also don't want to see Hanako unhappy, which is quite likely to show up in the bad endings.)

(By the way, I'm just curious, my total time was around ~10:30. I wonder how fast did others finish, since I like to take my time, and savor the experience.)

tl;dr: Thank you 4ls, this game is really a piece of jevel that performed well beyond expectations. And I'm saying this, while only finished Hanako's path yet. It is really inspiring to consider that this game is the fruit of your hard work, passion and determinaton, that you put into it entirely in your free time.
you should do the others routes or at least in my opinion lilly's since it involves some Hanako's develop to. As well it really doesn't matter how fast we finish it as long as, like you said, savor the experience of the story.
So true. Try Rin's route too... Still, Hanako FTW! :mrgreen:
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scoopnokes
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by scoopnokes » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:31 am

Misfile17 wrote:Agreed, it's such a wonderful experience, it's more than that even, I'm not really sure how to describe how much Katawa Shoujo has affected me, It's all been positive of course it's just hard to put into words because they've made sucha well rounded and just beautiful thing
couldn't agree more, everyone can take from the experience that they have gained from reading this VN

INFERTakuya
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by INFERTakuya » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:53 am

Anyone have any idea if Hisao denying his feelings for Hanako while chatting with Miki contributes toward getting Hanako's Bad End? Just curious; I've already gotten it on purpose, but...

Anyway, hate how retarded Hisao is in the final scene of her Bad End. I'm like, "Shut the hell up, man. She wants to be left alone, so leave her alone!"
Endings Obtained

Emi: Bad End|Second Chance|Good End
Hanako: Bad End|Neutral End|Good End
Lilly: Bad End|Good End
Shizune: -In Progress-
Rin:

scoopnokes
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by scoopnokes » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:56 am

INFERTakuya wrote:Anyone have any idea if Hisao denying his feelings for Hanako while chatting with Miki contributes toward getting Hanako's Bad End? Just curious; I've already gotten it on purpose, but...

Anyway, hate how retarded Hisao is in the final scene of her Bad End. I'm like, "Shut the hell up, man. She wants to be left alone, so leave her alone!"
i dont' think talking with miki has any effect on the outcome.

uwa
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by uwa » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:56 pm

INFERTakuya wrote:Anyone have any idea if Hisao denying his feelings for Hanako while chatting with Miki contributes toward getting Hanako's Bad End? Just curious; I've already gotten it on purpose, but...
I played a lot of combinations of responses for Hanako's path trying to fill in the scene that turned out to be her bad end, and the only choices that ever seemed to make a difference were taking her to town and listening to Lilly.

It's funny, after getting her good end and less bad end, the first thing I tried was not going to town, but when I chose to listen to Lilly after that, I assumed that I must have accidentally clicked the wrong answer and that probably meant I should get some sleep. So I put the game down, and when I came back later I just started mechanically running through every combination of responses, only to eventually find out I had it right much earlier that morning.
Emi > Lilly > Misha > Hanako = Rin > Shizune... I might just prefer women who put out a lot.
Mind-stickiness: Hanako > Misha = Shizune > Rin > Emi > Lilly

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Snicket
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Snicket » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:36 pm

Got kinda mixed feelings about this path. A part of me thinks it ended in the right place, with the whole 'finally accepting ones' faults/issues and now will over come them.' style ending. While another part feels a little cheated that nothing went beyond that. It would have been nice to see what lied ahead for the two lovers, but it also might have cheapened the overall story if it did.

Though despite my conflictions it played out more or less how i thought it would have. Not saying it's predicable, but rather i figured it out rather early on. Though that didn't make this route any less enjoyable. So don't think it was.

Anyway, onward to the less route. As before, I'm doing these in the order i did my first play though of the demo. Which means, Rin is up next.

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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Brogurt » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:42 pm

I'm fairly certain that the first two choices in their entirety have no effect on good or bad ends. Which seems kind of odd, since they easily could have an effect on the relationship that the two have.

Since she does want to be treated like any other person (and this is a big path of her path), I think that asking her if she wants to hang out with Shizune and Misha would be a step in the right direction, since it shows her that you have faith in her constitution: that she won't break down in the face of adversity, and it also shows that you think she could be of some use, and part of her anxiety is her belief that she's useless and better off not existing.

Obviously, telling Miki that you do like her could have reinforced that romantic feelings are present on Hisao's side, and that he doesn't just want to friendzone Hanako. No questions there, I hope.

Agreeing with Lilly was obvious for me since she's a Mary Sue since she has known Hanako for longer than I, although I think that it should have not even been a choice if you didn't go into the city, similar to how, in Act 1, if you don't get enough points with Hanako or Shizune, you default to reading your book.

But instead, the most important choice is where you go out into the city with her or call it a day. The one where you either go into the city, do nothing with her, and come back, or you just go straight to the dorms in the first place. I'm not sure how I feel about this, and I'll tell you why.

As I played through the path on my first run, I chose to ask her to help with the council, I admitted my feeling to Miki, I chose to call it a day, and I tried to agree with Lilly, but I guess that's not possible since I chose to call it a day. This frustrated me, since I clicked the option to agree with Lilly, but the monologue afterwards very clearly said that "I can't find myself able to agree with Lilly". I ended up reloading from that point 3 times to make sure I clicked it, and kept getting the same result. This netted me the bad end; of that I was sure. A heart-rending "breakup", without Romance in Andante playing, and with scenes below it still remaining in the Library. I then reloaded again and tried to trust my own judgement, and the same exact scene played. I then reloaded further back and chose to go into the town, and then agreed with Lilly, got the good end, etc.

Later that night, I took a step back to examine the choices for my decisions. I think I was justified in asking Hanako to help with the council, as I wanted her to be a bit more sociable, and the other option (I've done enough for the council.) seemed overly bitter, something I didn't want to be. The Miki thing was obvious, and I don't feel the need to state any more than that. The question was: "Why did I choose to stay at school instead of taking her to the city?" I asked myself the question and responded as quickly as possible, in order to get the "clearest" answer, untouched by doubt or consideration, with no second thoughts to cloud my answer. I swear that I had to stop myself mid-thought because of how shocked I was by what I was thinking. My answer was as follows: "Well, the city is more dangerous than Yamaku, so venturing out there, she could get hurt by someone rather easily, and I could wind up with a bad end."

I had turned exactly into the white-knight that I was trying not to be. I think that investigating why I had gone from treating her like an equal to treating her like a walking handicap is something for another time, and may require that I investigate the text for specific things that may have changed my thought process.

In reality, I feel like it might have been better this way. It means I can say that, while Hisao fucked up by kind-of sort-of raping Hanako, I fucked up as well, and neither of us is perfect. Neither is liberated from having made bad decisions, and while they will haunt us, we can salvage ourselves, move forward, and repair what has been done.

I also don't think talking with Miki has any effect on the outcome.

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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by rhfs » Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:33 pm

Snicket wrote:Got kinda mixed feelings about this path. A part of me thinks it ended in the right place, with the whole 'finally accepting ones' faults/issues and now will over come them.' style ending. While another part feels a little cheated that nothing went beyond that. It would have been nice to see what lied ahead for the two lovers, but it also might have cheapened the overall story if it did.

Though despite my conflictions it played out more or less how i thought it would have. Not saying it's predicable, but rather i figured it out rather early on. Though that didn't make this route any less enjoyable. So don't think it was.

Anyway, onward to the less route. As before, I'm doing these in the order i did my first play though of the demo. Which means, Rin is up next.
Although I want to agree that more Hanako romance would have been nice towards the end, I don't think ti would have necessarily been within her character. The H-scene felt dubiously consensual, and having Hanako kiss Hisao in the final scene was seen as a major step for her as a character. Even with all the strides she had made by the end of the route, she's still a very shy person and I don't think you would have immediately seen them acting much different after the final scene anyway.

That's my opinion, at least.

Misfile17
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Misfile17 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:35 pm

rhfs wrote:
Snicket wrote:Got kinda mixed feelings about this path. A part of me thinks it ended in the right place, with the whole 'finally accepting ones' faults/issues and now will over come them.' style ending. While another part feels a little cheated that nothing went beyond that. It would have been nice to see what lied ahead for the two lovers, but it also might have cheapened the overall story if it did.

Though despite my conflictions it played out more or less how i thought it would have. Not saying it's predicable, but rather i figured it out rather early on. Though that didn't make this route any less enjoyable. So don't think it was.

Anyway, onward to the less route. As before, I'm doing these in the order i did my first play though of the demo. Which means, Rin is up next.
Although I want to agree that more Hanako romance would have been nice towards the end, I don't think ti would have necessarily been within her character. The H-scene felt dubiously consensual, and having Hanako kiss Hisao in the final scene was seen as a major step for her as a character. Even with all the strides she had made by the end of the route, she's still a very shy person and I don't think you would have immediately seen them acting much different after the final scene anyway.

That's my opinion, at least.
Yeah that's how I see it to, I think the way it ended gave us enough of a look into the change she went through in order to show Hisao how she felt and what she wanted from him,

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~ J O K 3 R ~
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by ~ J O K 3 R ~ » Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:58 pm

Brogurt wrote:
~ J O K 3 R ~ wrote: And yes of course the fanfic :3 And I saw in the other blog of who had the better route and I must say, I am a happy camper ^^
Could you elaborate on this?
It may be something I might be interested in.
When skimming to some threads here, I found a thread on which had the best route and as you know I voted for Hanako xP

And when you see the results, it clearly showed that Hanako is in the lead. I don't know now, but hopefully she still is in the lead.
“There is something beautiful about all scars of whatever nature. A scar means the hurt is over, the wound is closed and healed, done with.”
- Harry Crews

(Somehow this reminds me of Hanako and yes, I'm a fan~ * W* ~ ♥)

Sero

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Sero » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:44 pm

As some others, i loved Hanako's route, but i'm somewhat unsatisfied by the swift ending.I realize extending the story wouldn't have added that much, but i believe their final conversations in the park and while going to town (especially the latter) should have been longer, even if it involved just small talk. Through the whole route you read a lot of Hisao's introspective thoughts, so in comparison the moments they opened to each other are too short to sink in. At the same time an epilogue where the other characters are happy for them would have been nice. Even without showing Hisao or Hanako, an epilogue in which their friends and acquaintances are happy for them being together and lovey-dovey would have been a big plus, a way to give players closure to play other routes without too much emotional baggage. Actually, even extending the very final moment where Hanako gives Hisao "his first gift" could have given some more closure.
As i am now, i doubt i can play other routes for a day or two (although i want to).
Personally, i hope a little "extra" about their relationship together can be added later by the writer, even if it's plain text.

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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Misfile17 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:48 pm

I don't think anything extra will be added, A lot of the Dev's have said that it's finished and they probably won't add more to it, As far as the ending goes, It would have been nice to have more but the ending is fitting for the character, She finally opens up enough to kiss Hisao in public, with bystanders watching and she doesn't care, Thats the message of Hanako's story I think, Being able to overcome her shyness and reveal her full feelings for Hisao without being reserved about it, :D

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